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Linda Posted On:2013-03-22 14:22:10

Please comment on whether the VibraTrim vt400 a good machine.  This company also makes a machine called Vibacore 1000.  Is either of these a good choice. 
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-03-19 20:36:10
Man I have to deal with some idiots on a daily basis.
 
Had this jerk come in today. He told me he had an accident a while ago ( walked in, so was mobile ) Apparently his surgeon told him to try out Vibra-Train to help his broken ankles recover. 
 
At first I sat him down in a chair as per the "seated leg stimulation pose" 
 
He then tried 1 minute in the assisted therapy pose. ( #3 on that poster ) He was instructed to take a majority of weight through the arms, to protect his once broken ankles. I told him I would not charge him for the training for a dozen sessions or so until he was convinced it would help him.
 
This is when he started to loudly tell me he felt it in his arm muscles, and  "it was not like cycling ?? ".  He then accused me of being a "guru like salesperson and my sales pitch would not work on him".
 
I unceremoniously told him where to put his opinion.
 
 
 
 
You know. Some people don't want help and don't deserve it.
 
 
   
 
John Posted On:2013-03-08 13:00:44

I am sure Lloyd and Chris Beardsley must be cooperating on the review paper Chris mentioned.  Keep us posted on how this is proceeding Lloyd.

John T. Weatherly
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-03-05 18:38:46
HBH
 
That company has been selling machines with fake specs for years. To the disabled and elderly alike at trade / home shows.
 
They are very aware of the issue, as I have had direct contact with the staff on a forum ( all 52 comments were taken down for obvious reasons ) . The salespeople admitted the specs were fake, but then tried to justify why it should be allowed. 
 
They also claimed to have designed and built the machine. The fact is, it is an $80 machine from China. The truth about the specs and its source would drop the price considerably. So they lie.        
 
 
 
Be very wary of  that company. 
 
Please note: Nothing wrong with the machine. As long as your expectations fit the design.
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2013-03-05 10:13:08

 

Legit for what use?

Check out the machine reviews here and you will find out more about the machine – see the section  ‘low speed pivotal’

http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/machine-reviews

The Sales sites I looked up listed inaccurate specs or none at all
 
HBH Posted On:2013-03-05 05:59:19

Saw a machine called Power Step Plus from OMG at a Home and Patio Show.

Is this a legit machine

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-27 17:00:05
  •  
  • Chris Beardsley Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw, I can only repeat my offer to help you write a review paper explaining these issues to the relevant academics. Or, you can carry on complaining about how nobody is listening to you...
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw I have been training athletes and other people for free who get no funding for their rehab / athletic training since 2004. / Chris..... You genuinely want to help a new science move forward or disprove itself. . Help me find an honest untainted aca...See More
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw Chris... I have always been willing to come under scrutiny. But who could you find that is willing to cut out all the academic static and get to the truth.
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw Do you know anyone in New Zealand ?
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw A quick 3 week study is all I need to prove mt work. I can offer full access to equipment.
  • Di Heap Chris that study has been done. And it was disguised as recommendations for future research. But strangely no mention of the hundreds of papers with serious errors. Because unlike your example of a technical error.They did not incorrectly test the machines. They didn't test them at all.
  • Di Heap A lot of these big names promote themselves as vibration exercise experts. An do lectures on the subject. Think about the implications for them if Lloyd gets all their research null and voided. And he can prove they were warned in 2004 but dismissed Lloyd simply because he is not an academic.
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw These academics used the "publish or die" excuse to get away with essentially releasing fake research. And by fake I mean they knew of certain issues before they started out, ( fake specs, ill designed machines un-replicable protocols etc... ) they covered these up for the sake of the grant.

    One well respected expert walked right past my front door. On the way to the airport. To fly all the way to the UK to do a series of tests on a machine that he himself had described as
    " too small " .

    Too small to do a wide stance squat, too small to do a correct bi-mechanical push-up on. No vibration handle bars ( they had to use a shake weight type unit or cables attached to the machine. Both giving low power transference ) , no way of doing a full body weight triceps dip. They could not do the positions they had wanted, but instead had to do positions limited to the machines design.

    Guess who paid for the trip ? That is right. A retail company selling the machine being tested.
    Quote from PDF...... " I am indebted to NovoTech who supplied the Galileo machine for the UK experiments and who financially assisted my travel costs to Manchester Metropolis University "

    This is not science. These are not the actions of a scientist endeavoring to move forward. It was a marketing exercise.
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-27 02:43:13
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw And this conversation only proves "full disclosure" and "ethics" are just words. They mean nothing and help no-one. No matter how much evidence I offer up. This is politics. Not science.
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw I have been training athletes and other people for free who get no funding for their rehab / athletic training since 2004. / Chris..... You genuinely want to help a new science move forward or disprove itself. . Help me find an honest untainted academic in N.Z. .I will give them the same offer I have given anyone else. 100% access to the world most powerful machines ( not fake ) and a InBody 3.0 body-composition machines..
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-27 02:41:24
  • Chris Beardsley Well, Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw (and I note that your Facebook name indicates a conflict of interest at the very least), the guy who wrote the original review article is actually a full-time sports scientist for the British Olympic Association. But if you think that he is wrong, why don't you do a study to show this? You clearly have access to the equipment, so get a university to help you with the ethics and you'll have the chance to demonstrate that you are correct. If you want to make claims, you need the evidence to back it up. And right now, the evidence is not on your side.
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw I went to court. I won the case based on unbiased evidence given by engineers who test vibration for a living. It did not stop academics releasing research they know to be invalid. And it has not stopped other academics siting the invalid research.
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw The problem is obvious. And it is not a lack of evidence.
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw And why is me being a real expert ( designing, building and running a full commercial operation myself ) and giving full disclosure a "conflict of interest". I turned down a very large pay check in the name of ethics...... But you trust academics who are clearly covering their own incompetence.
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw And I am not asking you to trust me. Contact Dr Marco Cardinale directly and ask him if any research he is aware of has been done on machines with fake specifications. And of so, why is the research still cited.
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw A comment I would like to address...

    " the researchers concluded that the appropriate standard of equipment did not yet exist in commercial manufacture. Until they test and assess the quality of newer equipment, I think it would be difficult to recommend any models "

    Much larger more powerful machines have been available since 2004. But would you let a bunch of academics who "forgot" to test the weaker vibration plates they already had. Have a much larger, more powerful unit ?
  • John Weatherly The International Society of Musculoskeletal & Neuronal Interactions even had to publish a paper on how to conduct vibration research in 2010 because there were so many bad studies. How can studies be published in peer-reviewed journals that did not test the equipment to see if it performed under loaded conditions as advertised? All of these papers should be thrown out in my view. Read the paper mentioned above.
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw I personally contacted the "top" academics involved in Vibration Training in 2004 - 2005 . Covering these topics.

    (1) Not clarifying Pivotal or Lineal design of a machine. ( just naming brand in a study was useless as some companies produce both types )

    (2) Not giving all 3 figures in specs Fq, Amplitude and KN.

    (3) Fake specs.

    (4) Testing machines loaded and unloaded.

    (5) The generic term WBV was being applied to anything that vibrated. Be it a foot massager or a commercial machine.

    Zero definition of machinery, therapy or training poses.

    (6) Suggesting one group do static, the other dynamic positions. Simply because any positive results were being put down to the movement by vibration training detractors.

    .

    The ONLY academic that got back to me was ...

    David M. Bazett-Jones
    July 13th, 2007
    U.S. Based researcher.

    "We only measured the accelerations, which were different than the manufacturer’s claimed accelerations."

    "I would argue that it is the ethical responsibility of the manufacturer to do this testing and report the results"

    "I can only wish that I thought of this prior to doing this study"
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw Chris....

    I can prove these reports are following my recommendations, literally word for word. Years after I made them public. Years after I fixed the physics and engineering issues myself.

    And I am just a mortician. I am no " full-time sports scie    ...See More
  • Chris Beardsley Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw, thanks for your detailed responses but you didn't answer my question. So I still don't understand why you don't do a study showing how these previous studies are incorrect? This would be the common way of addressing technical ...See More
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw You mention D Cochrane in the article. So this advice from Chris is a perfect example of what I have had to deal with...

    " You clearly have access to the equipment, so get a university to help you "

    This is an email I received from D Cochrane some years ago.... ( this guy lives in the same country as me, and has been on my equipment multiple times )
    Thanks for your informing email. As you are aware the breadth and scope of the vibration is a rapid growing industry, over 100 per-reviewed articles have been published every year since 2007. I pride ourselves in keeping up with what is happening in current research and industry, somehow your load bearing vibration handles have been overlooked and I apologise for this. One of the reason could be that your product has yet to be researched and therefore does not feature in any of the peer-reviewed publication.

    This article was a review of the articles published by peer-review journals this has both limitations and positive aspects. The limitations are that articles that have only been researched will experimental and control conditions will appear while anecdotal reports or evidence will not feature. The upside of research is that the articles have been scrutinised by a peer-review process, which is a quality control measure , the downside is that products and findings that are not covered in research will not feature.

    Your product looks to have good capability but it is unfortunate that the brief of the review was based on published work, I maybe wrong but I have yet to see it documented in peer-reviewed published work. I would welcome the opportunity to undertake work with your vibration handlebars, if you wish.

    Once again thanks for taking the time to email and I appreciate your thoughts on what is an interesting area of practice and research.

    So to recap. He will only review equipment that has been tested under strict quality control. Even though no engineering control exists. He will only follow other non experts work that ha been proven to be flawed. I implored him to turn up for a meeting, he never showed.

    He will not follow my protocols for ethical, safe and replicable tests. Simple because I an not "an academic " I am too dumb for your crowd"

    You want to know where this attitude has lead. Disabled people being experimented on fake machines. ( no exaggeration )

    Note: He still has not turned up. I still train people with disabilities for free. And athletes for free.

    But it is very depressing I have no help.
  • Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw I honestly thought if I did the" right thing" every day. I could change the world. But I was wrong, too many people covering for their mate stuff ups to let that happen.
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-27 02:38:12
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-26 17:55:26
Interesting conversation on FaceBook here on Vibration Training research ...... https://www.facebook.com/StrengthandConditioningResearch
 
I am trying to expose the unethical nature of doing reviews on research where machines with fake specs were used.    
 
 
 
It will be interesting to see if this group of academics dare to question their peers behavior. Or cover for them as usual.   
 
 
 
This is the conversation so far......
 
 
 
 
Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw What I want to know, is how did any of that research get peer reviewed and passed. ALL of them "forgot" to test the machines loaded and unloaded.
Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw And when the "experts" are asked why. They cant answer. The fact is they were fake experts to begin with.
Chris Beardsley Well, Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw (and I note that your Facebook name indicates a conflict of interest at the very least), the guy who wrote the original review article is actually a full-time sports scientist for the British Olympic Association. But if you think that he is wrong, why don't you do a study to show this? You clearly have access to the equipment, so get a university to help you with the ethics and you'll have the chance to demonstrate that you are correct. If you want to make claims, you need the evidence to back it up. And right now, the evidence is not on your side.
Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw I went to court. I won the case based on unbiased evidence given by engineers who test vibration for a living. It did not stop academics releasing research they know to be invalid. And it has not stopped other academics siting the invalid research.

Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw The problem is obvious. And it is not a lack of evidence.
Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw And why is me being a real expert ( designing, building and running a full commercial operation myself ) and giving full disclosure a "conflict of interest". I turned down a very large pay check in the name of ethics...... But you trust academics who are clearly covering their own incompetence.
Vibra Trainer Lloyd Shaw And I am not asking you to trust me. Contact Dr Marco Cardinale directly and ask him if any research he is aware of has been done on machines with fake specifications. And of so, why is the research still cited.
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-22 02:00:17
A lot of the  " shakers and fakers" are going to exposed this year. Good old fashioned time has proven some of my more controversial attacks on companies and individuals spot on.
 
 
(1)   Companies that have made it a part of their official marketing strategy To scare the crap and money out of the elderly, vulnerable and disabled. Pivotal Vs Lineal etc..
 
(2)  Companies promising "new": technology and models " that never existed.
 
(3) Companies promoting the ":anything  goes" : mentality to something that is meant to be a DISCIPLINE.
 
 
 
This year I will be doing a number of videos parodying these unethical clowns and hopefully allow the consumer a more comical take on quite a serious subject.    
 
NancyG Posted On:2013-02-14 05:24:44

I am also angry with the so called expert in the video who is instructing Mercola to do this fancy footwork.  So glad I found this site before making a significant investment and starting an exercise program.  Thanks again.
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-13 22:20:22
Regarding Dr Mercola....
 
His little video has made some impact alright. I have had a few people into my studio as a direct result of his marketing. And I even had one lady say he looked " ( and I quote ) " scared shitless " . The machine looked unstable and so did he.
 
 
The good thing for me is, every time clowns like that release a video. It clearly defines how serious we take this form of therapy and training. It is a no brainer for the consumer who are the experts, and who are the pretenders.
 
Keith Posted On:2013-02-13 20:07:03

Hi Lloyd, Di,

My neighbour asked me yesterday if I knew of Mercola as she had been advised to follow his teachings I suppose you would call it.

I told her that once he started punting powerplate that was the end of his credibility for me and that profit was his god.

Ive just seen the Mercola video. Even on my machine that would have meant smashed knees and damaged shoulder joints in very quick order.

I have put her through your safety programme on my machine and cant wait to show her this video by Mercola. It hurt just looking at it.

Thanks to Nancy G for the post.
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-13 18:39:34
Interesting article here.....
 
 
My aim is to have masses of vibration training ( vibration exercise ) research retracted due to incompetent researchers "forgetting" ( re not smart enough ) to get the platforms tested for accurate specs. Loaded and unloaded. Making the duplication of the research impossible.
 
I also wish to name and shame these fake experts, so they can never blight our industry again.      
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-13 18:24:31
 
  
That type of machine is a   Low Energy / Low Amplitude Lineal
 
Moving around or lifting weights on the machine is what some companies call "acceleration training' . It may ( but not always ) slightly accelerate the results of what you are already doing. 
 
The biggest problem with even giving a definite opinion on how effective it is. Is no company has been strict enough on its advised use. The only thing I can say for sure, is it is safe.     .  
 
 
Gabriel. Posted On:2013-02-13 17:15:40

 

Hello! I live in Brazil and I purchased a ProForm Activator V7. I'm liking the results, I practice bodybuilding and it has given me good results! It is placebo? The machine is worthless?
Thank you!
 
NancyG Posted On:2013-02-11 17:15:13
Thank you, John.  I will phone and ask them about their recommendations.  I know that the vibration (lineal) is advertised to be 28 - 30 hz, the recommended range for training benefits, and cannot be adjusted.  There are four built in programs.  Using the Exervibe apparatus on alternating days without vibration is a good option.
BTW...they offer an ExerClimber and an ExerStepper.  Both look good.  The Climber offers additional options for exercising the upper body.
 
John Posted On:2013-02-11 15:30:14

NancyG,

Contact VersaClimber for specifics on the Exervibe use. Remember, vibration can be used for different purposes such as warmup, circulation, range of motion, etc. in addition to what appears to be your main concern of bone health. Used as a training method I would stick to every other day or twice a week.  So, you could do vibration 2 or 3 days a week and a cardio workout on the inbetween days.  There are many possibilities.  One thing you do not want to do is overuse vibration and in my opinion this is easy to do because people do not seem to be aware of neural fatigue.

John T. Weatherly
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2013-02-11 13:21:57

Watching the video of Dr Mercola on the machine is scary.  The Powerplate isn’t a strong machine yet Dr Mercola can’t hold the positions that he’s recommending for fitness for elderly people.  He looks like he’s never used a machine even though he’s been selling them for over a year.

But, I’m going to say I would never recommend elderly people try those poses on any machine.

 Instead follow a SAFE, CONTROLLED program – The IVTRB SAFETY PROGRAM  (http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/lineal-and-pivotal-safety-programs)

 - The positions are held completely static (not moving) and are very balanced and supported. (even better on a Vibra-Train in a studio as we have side vibrating handlebars used for added support in squats BUT the program is great used with any machine)
 
NancyG Posted On:2013-02-11 07:36:50

Thank you, Lloyd and John.  Your comments are very helpful.  It sounds as if the Exervibe, as well as a good lineal or pivotal platform, would be an excellent investment for overall fitness.  It remains to be seen whether it can accomplish my goals regarding bone health since as far as I'm aware, no studies have been done with this machine with that particular focus.

Another question: how often, and for how long each time, would someone work out on the Exervibe if general fitness was their goal?  I am in my 70s.  Would I approach it similarly to a traditional vibration platform with brief workout sessions every other day?  Would there be any restriction for how often or how long to use it?  You have the option of using it with or without the vibration component.  Thank you. 
 
John Posted On:2013-02-10 14:04:40

NancyG,

I have corresponded with Lloyd for quite a few years now.  His knowledge is vast.  He knows more about the different vibration modalities than anybody I have encountered and I know quite of few researchers and other conditioning specialists.  I have not had the opportunity to use his machines yet as he is in NZ but believe what he says.  Vibration equipment I have used would be Vibraflex and some other platforms along with the Exervibe.  It depends on your goals and needs.  For older people looking for one machine that can do a lot, I agree with Lloyd that Exervibe is  the top choice for a personal purchase.  You can use it for vibration and as a climber.  The VersaClimber by itself is a tremendous piece of equipment but add vibration on top of it like you get with Exervibe and you have a unique tool.  And the equipment VersaClimber makes takes a beating.  It is high quality.

John T. Weatherly

 
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-10 10:41:19
Please note: The Exervibe is NOT considered by me as a "Vibration Training" product. It is a standard bit of exercise equipment with Vibration attached to it. Pure Vibration Training is a very particular and specific idea.
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-10 10:26:48
Which machine....
 
For pure bone health..... I Favor the Static Lineal Safety Program done on a Medium Energy Lineal unit .
 
                                         Next favorite would be the HyperVibe ( similar static poses held )
 
 
The Exervibe is more a mix mash of ideas. But I like the idea of light vibration, mixed with climbing, mixed with cardio. So for "over-all" health. That would win out.
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-10 10:18:08
My elderly programs ...
 
We follow the IVTRB Safety Program principles at all times. Which range in poses from pure therapy to high performance power poses. But all have 2 things in common.
 
STABILITY and SIMPLICITY 
 
Because it is about perfecting a posture over time, which allows you to move forward to a more challenging position or machine in the future. The more complicated and random a pose appears, the less likely you can ever achieve advancement.
 
Note: From my experience to date. The people who spend the most time talking techno jargon to the public and being all complicated.  Are over compensating for lack of real knowledge. The kind of positions they promote really need to be done under the watchful eye of a Vibration Therapy Trainer.      
 
NancyG Posted On:2013-02-10 08:20:02
I continue to research machines and platforms for home use.  We have limited floor space.  I have narrowed my choices to Hypervibe, the VersaClimber or Exervibe (lineal vibration) suggested by John Weatherly.  All three are well made by reputable companies and appear to do what they claim.
 
Question: If you can afford any one of these and if bone health and general fitness in older age are your main goals, which of these would you, Lloyd or John, (or anyone else reading this who has experience with these) recommend? 
 
Is the additional cost of the Exervibe ($5000 vs. $2000 for the VersaClimber or $2600 for the Hypervibe) worth it?  I like the upper body and cardio aspects of the climbing apparatuses.
 
 
Tough decision for me since all are good machines.  Thank you.
 
NancyG Posted On:2013-02-10 08:07:41
Thanks, Lloyd.  Dr. Mercola has lost some credibility with his endorsement of Power Plate.  Also, the positions he is demonstrating in the video would appear to be challenging for many elderly.  He's having difficulty holding the poses and is still reasonably young and quite fit.  Do you recommend poses like this for your elderly clients?
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-09 23:40:10
 Dr. Keith DeOrio is mentioned in the article....?
 
This guy is famous for telling people this....
 
" two motors produced "detrimental effects on brain and body synchronization," effects that he was able to reverse at his clinic".
 
 
You know someone is a desperate fake when they bring out the brain damage argument. Scare tactic marketing at it's most disgusting and unforgivable. 
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-02-09 23:24:30
As far as the program goes. It is what you would consider a Physio program. Note: The kinds of poses they are showing can only be done on a light machine.
 
Read this very old article of mine to understand the end goals of different programs and equipment....
 
 
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