Just in case it is deleted......

1. Lloyd Shaw

   Why does this academic directly compare an anaerobic workout ( which Vibration Training is ) to cardio for fat burning ?

   Anaerobic fat burning does not rely on CO2 output.

   February 19, 2016 Reply
2. Lloyd Shaw

   Can I also ask if the definition of “well researched” means only hands on research on one old style device from the same company ?

   A machine no bigger than a bathroom scale and a lot less powerful than what is used in workout studios . A machine physically impossible to do a full program on. The dimensions are all wrong.

   It certainly can not handle an obese person for multiple reasons ( I can explain if needed ).

   Also why does Dr. Bosco’s Nemes platform research get quoted even though his was Lineal ? A machine more powerful than most Lineal commercial machines like Power Plate.

   February 20, 2016 Reply
3. Lloyd Shaw

   Well I have been informed Dr Darrly Cochrane is fully aware of the questions surrounding all this research he has done.

   But I am not expecting any replies. Despite the fact he comes across as a consumer advocate and wanting full disclosure from marketers ….. apparently that does not extend to himself.

   After 13 years of dealing with people who hide behind the ivory tower wall. ….. I wont be holding my breath.

   If anyone thinks I am exaggerating….. Google John Weatherly Power Plate and read both articles ( on a CrossFit site. ) .

   He is one honest academic who tells it like it is.

   February 20, 2016 Reply
4. Lloyd Shaw

   I would also like to add one very very important point.

   The first time I ever witnessed the “just stand there and wobble pose for 5 mins ” promoted as Vibration Training was by the exact same company supplying that machine in the picture above.

   And telling people the faster they wobble it becomes more of a workout. And yes, he actually calls it a whole body workout.

   Google this sentence and listen carefully to the podcast…..

   Darryl Cochrane is researching whether exercise on full body vibration plates is beneficial

   Yet when marketers high-jack that idea and run with it…….. like any logical person would know they would do……. these highly educated people blame them ????

   What did they expect ?

   I on the other hand have fought from day one to only associate Vibration Training ( NOT Vibration Physio / Therapy. …Which is another discipline and use for the machines ) to be strictly attached to a proper full body program is followed.

   Google….. Lineal and Pivotal Safety Programs

   February 20, 2016 Reply

 As per this article and podcast by " a well researched " academic on Vibration Training.

So far Dr Darryl Cochrane has dodged all questions put to him and refused to explain himself. And denies all ties to the same company and machine he repeatedly does studies on. Even if it is unsuitable for the research.   

Your machine will have a frequency that to you has the best feeling in terms of force, effort and comfort. Technically this will be above 30 and I suggest you try 40Hz. 50Hz is a massage frequency on many machines but the best training feel on others. Do not make the mistake of thinking higher is better. With vibration training your form is the most important point (and of course the machine has to be good)

Your question about ankle dorsiflexion and overpronation – I have never met anyone yet (apart from people who have had ankle reattached or other surgery) who cannot get their heels flat onto the platform.  Woman are quad-dominant, as are men who are runners – my husband has very inflexible ankles but he has perfect squat position on the machines.. it’s something you learn – fast – by discipline and a few tricks of technique. Flexion improves over time but correct position is do able.

To get into a perfect vibration training squat position (note: this is very different to the pose you use to pick up a weight bar)

1.       Stand on the machine with your feet straight ahead!!! this might not be perfect to start (some men overpronate even standing still). do your best, don’t be relaxed about your position.

2.       Look at where your feet are. They must be directly below your leg bones. Look down from thigh, down knee to feet, straight down – not under shoulders but a bit narrower, straight down from middle of hip bones.

3.       Go into a squat by firstly bending your bottom out backwards and lower your body to a squat position, just above sitting.. This is where the side handlebars that we have are so good but you can do it by holding the machine handlebar for support

The vibration training squat is the most basic yet most profound position. Spend time getting it right at the start… then to maintain this position throughout 60 seconds recheck every 10-15 seconds, press heels into mat (feet flat and straight – look at them and correct them), check that your knees havent come together, keep them in line below knees. rebalance the squat by lowering your bottom a little (most people have come up and need to lower just a little 3 times during the 60 seconds). If you are facing outwards and have no handlebar to hold (position 8 and 9), lift chest and lower your bottom.

If you are finding it hard to maintain position and you are facing out so don’t have a handlebar – you can place your hands on legs just above knees or higher up onto thighs and press down, this makes a good, stable squat.

Getting through the whole minute in perfect position is the goal and nothing less is good enough! 

David

You’re right – lying on the machine is not a pleasant feeling.  I hope you read the instruction to use a mat under your back, head lifted a little by hands placed under the head.. You can use several mats if you have them (2 or 3 or more. Firm rubber not soft foam although I’ve used a softer one on top for comfort). This does not dampen the force much but it does help you to lay comfortably with your legs outstretched – feet onto the floor.  Your machine might have a “rough” feel but the actual force isn’t going far into your body, it’s just the sensation you feel, it can feel like a choking or cough in the throat area, along with the pounding into back. Your internal organs are safe, they are protected within fluid and like I said the force isn’t going that far in anyway.  – Personally I don’t like the feeling of the back massage so I only do it if I really need to, if I’ve twinged my back, and then the benefits are instant. Other people, who sit all day, or bend forward in their work, do 3 minutes back massage (3 min or 3x 1 minute) at each training session (3 times a week)

Thank you both for your response,

So could  laying on machine be harmful for internal organs? If it releases lower back I think its quite usefull, but is there a cost, because it is really a strange and uncomfortable feeling.

The other thing i wanted to ask is about working frequencies, my machine goes from 20 to 60 hz.. I never went over 50. Are extremely lower and higher frequencies usefull?

One more question about placing of feet, do you take caution how you or your clients place feet in terms of overpronation or forced dorsiflexion. Some people like me lack the ankle dorsiflexion which is neccesary to squat perfectly, so is it advisable to force dorsiflexion and let it vibrate, my guess would be not. Any experiences with that? Thanks.

Here is my yet to be published comment ....

I will answer any questions put to me. Even the one about the 10 min program statement. Which was first made by me. And others that will clear up even more issues our industry has. But only if there is real interest in the truth over myths and cover ups.


 

David

You also asked about lying on a mat on the machine – in a crunch position possibly.

No, we don’t do that.  Note it’s not on the program charts.

For therapy – lower back ache – we do sometimes lie flat on the machine, always with a mat underneath the back.  Hands under head with head elevated a little, looking down body.   3 minutes if tolerated.  It’s not a pleasant feeling so it’s not just for fun, it’s not for fitness, it’s great for relieving back pain.

For any girls who would like to know more about the Lineal Vibration Machine “Anti-Cellulite Massage” here’s two informative (and amusing) articles

Anti-cellulite Massage Part 1: http://www.vibeplus.com/2013/04/18/vibration-training-anti-cellulite-massage/

Anti-cellulite Massage Part  2: http://www.vibeplus.com/2013/05/06/vibration-training-anti-cellulite-massage-part-2/

David

Short answer:

Do you want to inflict bad pain on your manhood?

Long answer:

It would be very painful for a man to sit on the machine in the anti-cellulite position. It could also be dangerous.  Don’t do it!

That’s why it’s labelled “Women Only”!

Also it’s a “girl thing”, only women have “cellulite” on the back of the upper legs. This is static fat in an area that doesn’t get good enough blood supply to easily break it up. Women have more layers of cells in the back of the thighs/over the hamstring muscles than men do. Fat collects in these cells, along with fat dissolved waste toxins etc. The “women only” anti-cellulite massage causes blood to flow more forcefully though the thickness of the thigh to the skin area that’s being pounded by the vibration machine. On return this blood takes with it some toxins and a little of the fats that have been expelled from the cells – every bit helps us! The body then breaks down the fats which become available as energy. Over just a short time this position is amazingly effective for women.

Note: Any woman sitting on the machine must make sure the position is correct as the poster shows. Leaning forward keeps the tailbone away from the machine. Also remember, the whole upper leg area sits on the machine, with the backs of the knee against the machine edge (place a soft towel there if the platform has no protection). I’ve seen women sit with just their bum/bottom on the edge of the machine and legs out – how they think that is going to work, I don’t know.

Not only is this position totally unsuitable for men, it’s not needed.

Exercise number 7 from safety program, is it for man too? And if it is, is that good for lower back?

I would also like to know if laying down on back through mat, like in a crunch position, would be good for anything or detrimental?

Back pain....  please give me more info. ALL symptoms etc... As I can usually offer some good help in this area.  

Hi guys a few questions for you. Im in the UK and can buy the DKN XG10

Im around 110kg, I currently drive multidrop for a living and have lower back problems. I can get a lot of pain in the squat position if Im not careful. My aim is to relieve the back problem and increase my core strength and fitness over time.

Ive begun to read all your articles. Im confused with this one

http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/articles-1---10/vibration-training-and-precise-joint-angles

Is it best to actually place a chair in front of the machine to help build the strength required at the beginning

Any advice would be very welcome.

  David...

Best to wear just socks.   

One more question, What is the best type of footwear? I guess soft running shoes dampen the vibrations? Maybe barefoot?

Thank you for all the info. Maybe the problem is also in the mat, because it is almost one inch thick. I think other companies have thinner mat. All exercises that have arms in contact with the plate I am doing through mat, is that correct?

I have seen some modifications of bodyshaker that has handle bars.

Straps....... Pretty much waste of time for training. Again for stimulation alone. Unfortunatly no retail company has managed to ever develop high energy load bearing handle bars.   

David, I’ve followed your conversation with Lloyd. I work at Vibra-Train.

Your Push-Up – Check your position exactly with the Vibra-Train poster,  get someone to watch you. Chest must be right up over your hands and your body lowered toward the plate, not high which may be why you are feeling your forearms. But your machine platform size is smaller than optimal.

I’m not sure how you are doing the pullup – using straps?  Straps are useful for circulation but not great really for upper body work, unfortunately upper body work is limited with your machine.

Best advice is to follow the Safety Program exactly – perfect poses and you can do 2 minutes of each squat position – 1, 3 and the last one. You can repeat the Push-Up after you’ve completed the program – remember, perfect position is essential to get great results and maintain safety.  Also repeat the Tricep Dip if you wish – balanced program

Position 2 Advanced - The Full Push Up 

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR7UMmb0j6A)

How would I exercise my upper body? I do push up but feel it mostly in my forearms, I also do the static pull up position but of course the vibration is very weak in handle bar because it is attached to lower base. I guess the straps are also useless? Any recommendations? Thanks.

If you truly are taking the muscle to super fatigue. The body has a lot more to recover from and process that you could comprehend. 

3x per week?

 Both your questions answered in two older articles...

Note:  VibroGym are not perfectly Lineal. In fact no higher energy lineal retail company sells them. Which is why they wont attach vibration handle bars to the platform, because the errors would be there for all to see. 

Another question regarding frequeny of trainings

How often is good, every second day?

Have you ever tried to do each exercise with more than one set?

No problems with machine, I was just asking because vibrogym claims it has the most precise vertical vibrations, if vertical vibrations are good, than I guess any deviation from vertical goes to other two planes and that creates shearing forces on joints? So how precise is fitvibe compared to vibrogym.

 Dear Leslie Buttermore

They are highly overpriced though at those trade shows and they offer rubbish support I would suggest you look on ebay etc....  first. I can guarantee we can help you get something that has the exact same function and we will support you for as long as you need it.  

Could you give me any information on the "Euro Body Shaper" model 

I plan to buy one this weekend at a Home Show but after doing some

reading about these vibration machines, I am a little undecided.  I had

breast cancer a year ago.  I am 67 yrs. old, and need help to get back

my body from the effects of chemicals, etc.   I value your advice.

Thank you so much for your response.  I appreciate your time and

effort.   God Bless You.......

Kind Regards,

Leslie 

 Technically , yes they should produce similar forces.

If that is the case. Tell me.   

Lloyd, do you know if old vibrogym has more precise vertical vibration than old fitvibe medical, in other words is there any difference in the quality of vibrations between those two? I guess they both develop similar force?

Correct

So G should be the same?

But what is difference in the sense of mechanical output, after all from what I know those are just wobbling plates, so if two plates are performing with the same frequency and are also the same size, I guess the amplitude is also the same.