Thank you very much for the information.  As far as personal machines are concerned, are you able to recommend one that I can find in the US.  The power plate was the first vibration machine that I had ever heard about.  They cost around 5,000.  Is it possible to get a good personal machine for that price...sorry my question mark is stuck.

Much of the vibration research is invalid as we have covered here in prior posts.  The scientists finally started catching up to Lloyd by publishing a paper about guidelines for vibration research in the fall of 2010.  You may want to google International Society of Musculoskeletal and Neuronal Interactions Guidelines for Vibration Research.  Having said this, more research comes out all the time that appears to validate vibration as an exercise modality.  For example, go to www.nlm.nih.gov, click on PubMed, and use either vibration training or vibration exercise as search terms.  Abstracts of studies can be read.  In some cases, the full text of the articles are available.  But, the research literature has been contaminated by poor research studies that did not even check to see if the platforms performed as stated by the manufacturers before conducting and publishing studies.  How stuff like this gets published in peer-reviewed journals is beyond me.  It shows how lazy and incompetent some researchers have been.  These are the types that accept gifted equipment to do studies on etc.  It also shows how the peer-review system can be flawed when all of these supposedly intelligent researchers let this stuff slide by.  They all "missed the elephant in the room" as Lloyd has said.  Money talks and Venus walks.  Some of these people have been "married to the money."  No morals or ethics.

John T. Weatherly

I am looking for a vibration machine for my home.  Everything that is advertised in the US is on your blacklist.  I have been reading everything I can find on vibration training, but cannot seem to find a quality machine for individual use.  I work on an OrthoNeuro  unit in a hospital and have been talking with some of the surgeons about these machines.  I cant find very much information, legitimate information, about use after spine, cervical or joint surgeries.  I would appreciate any information or websites.  

Well, I have been suspended from the Sport Science Group at strengthperformance.com.  No reason was given for my suspension.  I suspect it was because I kept hammering on the fake specs with vibration platforms issue and the guy that oversees the group has a facility in Las Vegas that does vibration treatments.  No explanation at all for my suspension in spite of my requests for an explanation from administrators of the site.  They just deleted the entire discussion and suspended me.  So much for freedom of speech.

John T. Weatherly

Another success story – and further proof that often “Less is More” when using pure vibration training.

The lady I asked about below (fully fused neck and a large lower back injury) is now doing a series of basic squats (holding the front handlebar of machine) and assisted squats (using side vibrating handlebars) to workout her arms also; with a double heavy rubber mat on the machine to take a little of the pressure out yet allow her to sink down into a perfect  110 degree squat.  Also 2 x 60 second anti-cellulite massage which she doesn’t find comfortable.  

Added in pivotal work, (part way through session) standing locklegged 2 x 90 seconds at 6hz on a workout machine. She barely tolerates this as it throws her around a little.  At the end of her session she uses a very low speed, low amplitude pivotal machine for 5 minutes standing upright. This is similar to what she has used previously in a hospital.

She is tired at the end of this simple program and she said she felt exhausted once she got home – she came back today and asked for exactly the same program over again!

Her unfit and uncoordinated  husband is now doing the IVTRB Safety Program perfectly.  The success of  people who would not otherwise do any regular exercise is one of the things that makes my job so good.

I contact about 2 sites a week who use my work to get sales. Most just ignore me.

Our best bet to stop that BS is to get influential enough to educate the consumer directly.

Thanks Peter

Isn’t it interesting how marketers use facts and figures in incorrect ways – twisting the truth. 50Hz is not the machine speed but the frequency of the power input – it’s a clever way to make a machine sound powerful.

They have attributed the article to Lloyd Shaw so that is good.

Crazyfit/Crazyslim  machines won’t give the sort of results that Lloyd talks about in the article but they do give some stimulation – so again they are stretching the truth. One can only hope people want to read of what Lloyd has to say so they search and find this and other reputable sites.
( Lloyd may want to comment further when he reads this forum)

For those who want to know more about the cheap pivotal machines like Crazyfit read here

http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/general-consumer-warning-about-cheap-pivotals

http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/no-such-thing-as-a-bad-machine

Lloyd, Bringing to your attantion this site, http://www.livingvibrations.ca/must_have_products.htm and their reference to an article you wrote under Benifits here, http://www.livingvibrations.ca/studies/Balancing%20Hormones.pdf

As an advocate of honest marketing, I am sure you too would find their claimed machines performance specs of  Hz. frequency to be extremily off and misleading. Nor would I expect you to want any association to these type of tactics.

Lloyd

Di

Assisted Squat

Standing Locklegged Pivotal for light ab workout. Make sure she knows no ab position burns fat. Even sit ups at the gym.

Willie

Yes had it developed and shot a while ago. Problem was trying to find a Pivotal company to help promote and support it. With the unnessesary attacks on our work in the past by certain companies, who desperatly tried to get people not to trust our advice. It was hard.

It will be released very soon on this site with a new side dedicated to Pivotal.  

Lloyd,

        Q. Is there a safety program from pivotal machines.

Lloyd, 

Been spending 3 intensive weeks at an Osteopath clinic working with Vibration Training.

Basic existing protocols and ideas been clarified and reinforced. More theories been proven correct and now backed up by a specialist.

Will have lots of intersting work to release this year that will benefit the entire industry. Good solid straight forward advice anyone can follow.

A cramp is one thing. Often caused by dehydration. You see it all the time in sports. NOT in any way the same as a trigger point, maybe slightly similar, but not really. Cramps usually resolve in a very short time when the person rehydrates and/or stretches the cramped muscle (calves usually).

Trigger points are way different, at least in my experience. They do not resolve on  their own, at least mine don't. They are not usually painful, at least not locally. They cause what is called "referred pain" as they will not allow a muscle to relax. I imagine it is a bit like rigor, in a way. The muscle stays contracted until the person locates and massages the knot. In the meantime, a joint associated with the muscle may be subjected to painful stress. I think perhaps I might have had a minor one irritating my bad knee, perhaps for years. If left alone (all too easy to do!) I think they can cause a joint to deteriorate prematurely, since they can move things out of their normal position.

I am trying out a magnesium supplement for a while to see if it helps. I had it on hand, but I am terrible about remembering to take pills, and it's hard to stay motivated sometimes. I am up to 3 times a week now of pickup basketball, so cardio should NOT be a problem...

Mike M.

Some suggestions.

 First one is stretching. Although vibration training does not cause cramping as weight lifting does, during static poses connective tissue inside muscles does not receive benefits from dynamic, especially eccentric exercises.  On occasion,  isometric exercises can cause local cramping, and painful knots, or "trigger points" as you call it. Slow, static stretching of your leg muscles can help.

Second, cardio workout. This is only way to increase the surface of your capillary network. Sometimes, when only anabolic stimuli is presented to the body, increasingly  bigger muscles can not reach enough nutrients from poor developed capillary network, and they reacts in the way of painful local knots. Your thyroid condition can be part of that problem.  15-20min. of cycling three times a week can be beneficial.  

Alternatively, your patellas can be misaligned, or your patelofemoral joints can have a cartilage problem, that can be caused by your  thyroid condition. Ether way, the pain can be localized in your knees, or in your quads. Some mobilization, or manipulation of patella, together with deep tissue massage can provide quick relieve.

Hope this helps

To Mike M...

you may be short of magnesium. Most everyone is and it can certainly make a difference workout wise if you are deficient.

vsp

Do your squats on a foam mat in socks. It recreates walking on sand and should fix the points that are overworking.

It will take a little force out of the vibration. But well worth it.   

It's a bit slow on here for a while now so I thought I'd share or start a discussion of a problem I'm having. Maybe others here have seen it or have it also, since I am noticing that my doing VT seems to stimulate it somewhat, to the point that I am currently having to slow down a bit on VT, cut back the sessions a bit, while the problem resolves. The problem is called trigger points; I like to call them muscle knots. I'll link an article that discusses them pretty well:

http://www.naturalchoice.net/articles/triggerpoint.htm

I don't think I am particularly deficient in any of the minerals listed; I have been tested and the lab tests came back pretty normal. The only thing listed that I believe may apply is a thyroid deficiency; I am hypothyroid but I take a daily hormone supplement for that. Of course, who knows if that is going to cover it.

What I have noticed over the years is that I tend to have them in the legs, especially in the quadriceps. They can be very sneaky and the resulting pains can be a good distance from the knot causing it. I can recall once having one in one of the smaller calf muscles which caused a pain in my heel. I went to doctors who were baffled. The muscle which I had to massage with a tennis ball was on the side of the calf. Once I located and massaged the knot, the problem resolved within a week.

Right now I am finding that the super squat irritates trigger points in my quads, specifically the vastus medialis, on both legs. I didn't realize it until I started being unable to complete a super squat and my legs seemed weaker, not stronger. What I'm doing is daily massages (several times daily) and delaying another session until they seem calmed down.

If anyone else here has any alternatives, I'm all ears.

Christmas is over and the New Year just ahead, so I’m going to wish all readers and contributors to this forum a very Happy Holiday season.

There are exciting times ahead as this industry moves forward.  The benefits of pure vibration training are immense – the results my customers have achieved this year are amazing.

Here’s a short article telling of some of the successes I’ve seen with customers this year

http://www.vibeplus.com/2011/12/31/vibration-training-success-stories/

I'm glad to find this forum. I'm very greatful for your help. There is so many products on the market... it is a nightmare to get it right. Expensive doesn't always mean good, usually you pay for company's name on it rather then product quality. And that's what I thought in this case. I guess I was wrong. Thank you again. I'll need to have a look around once more. 

Hi Sylvia

Occasionally you can pick up a BodyShaker Junior, steel,  on Ebay for about 1000 pounds.  They dont come up that often though for the reason being that they are good machines so people hang to them.  You could out in a saved search though., 

I read reviews on amazon from bslimmer and it looks good. I'm not sure what was people's weight who trained on it. 

All are low speed pivotal vibration machines. None actually work to the specs stated in the advertising. They are useful for improving circulation and possibly helping with relaxation and maintaining bone density, not much more for most people. You have low body weight so they might be okay as a starter machine but the ones you’ve listed wont help a lot with fat loss and fitness. Seriously, at that low price you can’t expect much. 

What machines do your friend’s use, maybe a studio or at a gym? I would only recommend the ones you listed for therapy (gentle stimulation) not for training. Possibly of  help to your husband but we’d need to know more about what’s wrong with him. Also his weight as those cheaply made machines don’t work at much above your own body weight. 

Note: you have called them PowerPlate - that is a brand name of a different machine.

Read some of the articles on this website and you’ll learn more

Start with this: http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/machine-reviews

and http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/weight-loss-resistance-training-vibration-training-for-woman

Hello. I was told by my friends to try vibration plates to get fit. I had a baby last year and now I have no time to go gym as I work full time and all I want to do after work is go home. I did some research on power plates and thinking of buying one, but I'm not sure if I should get crazy fit power plate, body train 2000 or 1500, or maybe bslimmer. All of them are on sale now for around 140 to 180 pounds in UK. 

I weight 55kg 160cm tall. I want to lose few more kilos, get ride of cellulite and toned my body, especially legs and bum.

Which one would be the best for me to purchase. My husband probably would use it for his back pain. thank you for help

Hello. I was told by my friends to try vibration plates to get fit. I had a baby last year and now I have no time to go gym as I work full time and all I want to do after work is go home. I did some research on power plates and thinking of buying one, but I'm not sure if I should get crazy fit power plate, body train 2000 or 1500, or maybe bslimmer. All of them are on sale now for around 140 to 180 pounds in UK. 

I weight 55kg 160cm tall. I want to lose few more kilos, get ride of cellulite and toned my body, especially legs and bum.

Which one would be the best for me to purchase. My husband probably would use it for his back pain. thank you for help

Quote : “I could not do my obesity work on Pivotal machines. Too many limitations around the persons extra size and mass. And I also believe the upper body work was as important as the legs.(  Hence the vibration handle bars. ) “

This is an example of using the right machine for the job – not in any way an attack on pivotal machines. 

I was really fortunate to trial Lloyd’s mixed pivotal/lineal machine a few years ago. It was based on the standard Vibra-Train machine design with vibrating handlebars and it had a cyclic pattern of vibration.  I begged him to put the design into production as it was amazing for me when I had serious injuries and it also was excellent for obese people – it took 300kg with no loss of force, totally safe to use supported by the handlebars and I felt less stress (it felt easier but very effective) but now I’ve been in the industry longer I understand how far advanced that design was. It was simply too far ahead.  People, even in the industry would not understand it. It’s enough for now that we clean up the whole industry and use the better, effective machines we have, both pivotal and lineal.  (Lloyd disassembled the cyclic machine – it’s gone)

Lloyd

A few comments:

 Vibration Training (on quality machines) is absolutely effective in the fight against obesity.  We need to be more proactive in getting that message out there.  I think that means company owners, studio managers and all of us working together to promote free or reduced price sessions for those who can’t afford it and publishing the results so that other people are encouraged to use the machines. It also means the customers who are morbidly obese (and their family or friends) actually keep training and don’t stuff us all around by coming for 5 or 6 sessions and then giving up because “they are too busy” or it’s too hard” or some other useless excuse. We can’t help those who won’t help themselves.

Fake specs and machines; yes we need to keep the fight against these.  Also I’m tired of hearing of gyms that have vibration machines that are okay (medium energy) but the personal trainers haven’t a clue how to use them and are too proud to be taught. This works against us all as the gym members become anti.

Moving on machines is really dumb in my opinion.  I know the vibration of low or medium machines (both pivotal and lineal) might accentuate regular exercise but, seriously, why bother having an expensive machine when a bit more of the regular exercise probably does the same thing.  It makes us appear like a fad, with unprovable results.  It even makes the research invalid in some edicated peoples eyes