HI Di

Its just bounced back again.  Address and hyphen were all correct.  Thats ok he has my email and phone number.

Thanks for your help

Deb, Lloyds not in the studio but will be later thius afternoon so will get back to you then.

Thanks Di

Doesnt seem to have bounced this time

Lloyd

Tried again, third time lucky maybe

Hi Deb, please try again (remember the hyphen, sometimes that’s the problem)

 lloyd@vibra-train.com  

Hi Lloyd just tried to email you re my ongoing Hypervibe problem but the email came back undeliverable. Can I post what's going on here or would you rather email

thanks, Fed up in Brisbane

 David.

Yes. Perfectly safe. 

Keep us all posted on your questions, learning curve and progress. .

Hi Di and Lloyd. After all your good advice via email I have now bought the used Vibrogym! Without the site and your very helpful input I would have made a mistake and wasted a lot of money and time. Big Thanks again.

In your opinion, would force coming through foam roller putted on mat be safe for upper body?

Pat

Vibrogym Classic – phone Vibrogym and ask if they know of any secondhand machine available. These are solid steel, older units. The new Vibrogym units don’t have the same force in the vibration.

BodyShaker Junior – I think this is readily available in UK. Bodyshaker has been around forever.

Both lineal movement – remember the two main types, lineal – directly upright (if working properly) and pivotal – up/down side to side with a centre pivot.  Lineal cause a deeper muscle contraction, generally speaking, than pivotal platforms. The down point is that you must put them on a solid floor usually on a dense rubber mat. The room walls can resound the wave as noise – so not suitable for use in an upstairs apartment. Very differently, pivotal machine cause the muscle and any covering fat to shake; that look that you see in videos that is amusing to watch. At higher speeds the shake is still there but the muscle contraction is greater (must be a good quality machine).

For muscle strength I’d go for a medium - high-energy lineal machine always, if you have somewhere to put it – be careful there’s a lot of less force plastic machines, some with known brand names and glossy advertising accompanied by a poster with large number of “every pose you can dream up”.  Go for a solid machine and a simple solid, safety program.

http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/lineal-and-pivotal-safety-programs

I’m not sure what you mean by quickness, acceleration off the mark – we don’t use any built in programs that change the speed etc. You don’t need that – you need a solid machine, solid program.
Note: If using a high-speed pivotal machine you do need to change speed for different positions. You risk damage to shoulders if you do the arm positions on a pivotal at high speed. Also the plank position on a pivotal is murder on shoulders so we turn it around (upper body on the ground)

Remember to eat a meal or a banana before training – the increase in blood sugar is essential to being able to hold perfect position for the full time of each pose. You quickly use up the food (calories) so don’t worry about that.  We have clients that don’t eat enough (lie to us) and they either, obviously can’t hold position, or feel lightheaded.. this applies equally to strong people as well as those who are starting out.

Once you get started, you are welcome to send a short video to me or to Lloyd to pass on to me. I’m happy to sort out any incorrect poses but be aware I won’t be kind. This is the most amazing strength training (tight, lean muscle – not bulk) you can do and it must be done correctly.

 Most rounded shoulder issues are usually from someone overworking their back. Which gains mass a lot faster than pecs ( which take years to develop )

VT relaxes / heats up muscles very quickly. So in your case doing some pec stretches straight after your workout is a good idea.   .

Would safety program be recommended for example for someone with very tight pectorals, that is rounded forward shoulders posture, because you have push up and dip in program that would do even more tightness in front of upper body, at least in standard exercise program without VT.  My question actually is how does WBV deals with imbalances in posture? Do you have any experiences with that? Thanks.

 Pat....

In Europe..... I would personally try to get a second hand VibroGym  Classic. Or a BodyShaker     

Again thank you for getting back Di Heap

My goal would be to train both. Quickness is also important, like as in initial acceleration off the mark. I live rural in stand-alone house with good space if needed.

Pat

Ps. Now I know you are going to giggle here – but why can’t arms be used on a pivotal m/c – like in a press up as per the “Pivotal Program > Push Up” on the site

I need to back up a bit -- A few more questions given your already fit state

Do you plan to train your arms hard, as well as legs? – seems obvious answer but a pivotal machine can’t do this.

Do you live in a stand alone house or an apartment? This limits choice

Hey Di Heap

Thank you for your response  I have read the links you referenced and understand the differences between the machine types and have read quite a few of the helpful posts here and pages on the site. Have also read many reviews which I now realize most if not all are not independent.

I had narrowed it down to the Hypervibe G17 Pro and the Galileo Advanced  I was leaning towards the Hypervibe because of its price  they also have 20percent discount sale on at the moment then I saw the Blacklist which includes Hipervibe and that threw me a bit as I thought I had done a reasonable amount of research..

Re your questions  I am 45 male, pretty fit and reasonably muscular, play tennis 4 times a week. Probably am caryying a few extra Lbs. No real injuries at the moment and live in the UK.

Have good area to put a larger machine though would prefer a smaller one if it can do the same job. I do understand that doing it at home is never going to be as beneficial as a proper VT studio but need the convenience of a home machine. 

Very much appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction for a proper quality machine that I can buy in the UK or from Europe.

Once again many thanks

Pat

Pat

Machine type Reviews: http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/machine-reviews

Have you tried any machines? Please look at the review section to see what the machine types are.

Generally for home High-Speed Pivotal are used but this type has a particular feel and you do need to understand the difference between the two main types of machine – also where will you put the machine – within your home? You can’t simply choose the biggest and best:

http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/articles-21---30/your-home-machine-and-your-neighbours

Or do you own a gym or other fitness place where you can put a heavy machine?

More information about yourself if the machine is for yourself – your current fitness level and training if any? Male or - female, age, health and body type (muscular? overweight?) injuries?  Location?

Note: No home machine will give the results that we see here in the Vibra-Train studio (full commercial machines and supervised training) but we can tell you some brands and machine types to look at, and a program to use, if you give more information. Remember to get clearance from your medical professional if you don’t currently do an exercise program.

Also, read back in this forum. There is a ton of useful information.

First thank you for providing all the information on the site. I am in the UK and have spent hours looking at reviews and was more confused after reading them..until I came here. I am looking to buy a quality machine that will help with muscle tone/ Euro2500 to Euro4000! Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thank You

Pat

 Foam roller is not rolled. Just put it on the plate and let the vibrations work into the spot you needed massaged. Safe means not putting your joints directly onto the steel plate .

Number 2 and 4 are quite different poses. So yes you do the whole program if you can. 

Note  I used a VibroGym for years and it is the exact same dimensions and size of your plate. Only my machines have a slope on the front edge.

I havent tried foam rolling on vibration plate yet,  I was doing foam rolling before I started with WBVT, and I still do, separetely.

Dont know what safe would be, if I would use foam roller on vibrating plate.

Should I do exercise number 4, cause my machine hasnt got the slope at end, also isnt that exercise a little redundant considering exercise push up?

David, I always think of other people reading this open forum so it’s good to repeat information.

The Squat – our favourite and most hated position!

It has so many little points to check – to make sure you stay in perfect position. Get someone else to read the instructions and check up on you.  It never gets easy, some days I think I’ll never get through the short, safety program – but like Nike, I “Just Do it” - three times a week. Im always happy to help  

 David...  Working towards perfecting the standard program will take care of almost all the issues you have. Like perfecting the squat will do for your ankle. But it should be measured in terms of 6 months , so nothing that important should be pushed.

Using the foam roller on the machine is a good idea to break up tension. As long as it is done in a safe manner.

Well, I ve read most of the articles few years ago, and the whole forum and videos  too, since not everything is known about WBV, I ask you two who have many experiences If I have a very specific question, I apologize if that question is already being covered in your articles. Its just seems easier to ask, than reading everything again. But I will do that in time. I just thought maybe you discovered something new over the  years.

Like I told LLoyd I had ankle arthroscopy which left me with internal scar tissue, which I thought might get breaken by WBV.

Im also interested in therapy, because all my muscles were stiff and imbalanced  from compensations of ankle limitations. I was doing foam rolling and other trigger point therapy last years and that helped me a lot. I ve always felt that WBV would somehow be beneficial too.

I

Breaking up scar tissue?  The Safety Program does this well.

Please don’t randomly place an arm or leg on the machine.  Do read the articles on this site. They have so much information that I re-read them all the time. If you have a specific therapy question that really isn’t covered you can ask here or email me or Lloyd. It’s very important to keep safety first, to apply the vibration force to muscle, not directly to bone – so your statement has me a bit worried.

Also, about your push-up position and any others, you can send me a short video (from your phone). My email is easily located on my website (it’s my first name at my domain- same as below). I will then tell you how you are doing but be aware, I will point you back to the step-by-step instructions.

 Well yes. Because 50 hz creates more inertia. So great for massage etc...

How many of my articles and videos have you read / watched. A lot of this is covered in them in detail. 

50 hz for massage? My machines instructions says 20hz for massage. Would that 50 hz  according to you would  also be best bor breaking up scar tissue?

 Just in case it is deleted......

1. Lloyd Shaw

   Why does this academic directly compare an anaerobic workout ( which Vibration Training is ) to cardio for fat burning ?

   Anaerobic fat burning does not rely on CO2 output.

   February 19, 2016 Reply
2. Lloyd Shaw

   Can I also ask if the definition of “well researched” means only hands on research on one old style device from the same company ?

   A machine no bigger than a bathroom scale and a lot less powerful than what is used in workout studios . A machine physically impossible to do a full program on. The dimensions are all wrong.

   It certainly can not handle an obese person for multiple reasons ( I can explain if needed ).

   Also why does Dr. Bosco’s Nemes platform research get quoted even though his was Lineal ? A machine more powerful than most Lineal commercial machines like Power Plate.

   February 20, 2016 Reply
3. Lloyd Shaw

   Well I have been informed Dr Darrly Cochrane is fully aware of the questions surrounding all this research he has done.

   But I am not expecting any replies. Despite the fact he comes across as a consumer advocate and wanting full disclosure from marketers ….. apparently that does not extend to himself.

   After 13 years of dealing with people who hide behind the ivory tower wall. ….. I wont be holding my breath.

   If anyone thinks I am exaggerating….. Google John Weatherly Power Plate and read both articles ( on a CrossFit site. ) .

   He is one honest academic who tells it like it is.

   February 20, 2016 Reply
4. Lloyd Shaw

   I would also like to add one very very important point.

   The first time I ever witnessed the “just stand there and wobble pose for 5 mins ” promoted as Vibration Training was by the exact same company supplying that machine in the picture above.

   And telling people the faster they wobble it becomes more of a workout. And yes, he actually calls it a whole body workout.

   Google this sentence and listen carefully to the podcast…..

   Darryl Cochrane is researching whether exercise on full body vibration plates is beneficial

   Yet when marketers high-jack that idea and run with it…….. like any logical person would know they would do……. these highly educated people blame them ????

   What did they expect ?

   I on the other hand have fought from day one to only associate Vibration Training ( NOT Vibration Physio / Therapy. …Which is another discipline and use for the machines ) to be strictly attached to a proper full body program is followed.

   Google….. Lineal and Pivotal Safety Programs

   February 20, 2016 Reply

 As per this article and podcast by " a well researched " academic on Vibration Training.

So far Dr Darryl Cochrane has dodged all questions put to him and refused to explain himself. And denies all ties to the same company and machine he repeatedly does studies on. Even if it is unsuitable for the research.   

Your machine will have a frequency that to you has the best feeling in terms of force, effort and comfort. Technically this will be above 30 and I suggest you try 40Hz. 50Hz is a massage frequency on many machines but the best training feel on others. Do not make the mistake of thinking higher is better. With vibration training your form is the most important point (and of course the machine has to be good)

Your question about ankle dorsiflexion and overpronation – I have never met anyone yet (apart from people who have had ankle reattached or other surgery) who cannot get their heels flat onto the platform.  Woman are quad-dominant, as are men who are runners – my husband has very inflexible ankles but he has perfect squat position on the machines.. it’s something you learn – fast – by discipline and a few tricks of technique. Flexion improves over time but correct position is do able.

To get into a perfect vibration training squat position (note: this is very different to the pose you use to pick up a weight bar)

1.       Stand on the machine with your feet straight ahead!!! this might not be perfect to start (some men overpronate even standing still). do your best, don’t be relaxed about your position.

2.       Look at where your feet are. They must be directly below your leg bones. Look down from thigh, down knee to feet, straight down – not under shoulders but a bit narrower, straight down from middle of hip bones.

3.       Go into a squat by firstly bending your bottom out backwards and lower your body to a squat position, just above sitting.. This is where the side handlebars that we have are so good but you can do it by holding the machine handlebar for support

The vibration training squat is the most basic yet most profound position. Spend time getting it right at the start… then to maintain this position throughout 60 seconds recheck every 10-15 seconds, press heels into mat (feet flat and straight – look at them and correct them), check that your knees havent come together, keep them in line below knees. rebalance the squat by lowering your bottom a little (most people have come up and need to lower just a little 3 times during the 60 seconds). If you are facing outwards and have no handlebar to hold (position 8 and 9), lift chest and lower your bottom.

If you are finding it hard to maintain position and you are facing out so don’t have a handlebar – you can place your hands on legs just above knees or higher up onto thighs and press down, this makes a good, stable squat.

Getting through the whole minute in perfect position is the goal and nothing less is good enough!