Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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Scott Posted On:2013-08-01 17:20:45

Does anyone know about a machine Galaxy by hypervibe. Can not find one to try. I am in Cal.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-07-29 19:17:57
Drew...
 
Sorry no High Energy Lineal units yet in the US. One company tried a few years ago but they cracked apart.
 
DKN XG 10 is about the best you will get that comes with a warranty you can trust. 
 
Drew Posted On:2013-07-29 16:50:38

Hello Lloyd,

I have been reading through this website trying to learn as much as I can about vibration training.  You have a plethora of information here.  My question is do you have recommendations on high energy lineal machines which can be obtained in the USA for use with your safe program.

Appreciate any additional guidance.

Thanks

Drew

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-07-28 16:47:35
Tammy....
 
NitroFit is a well know company, with a good product, and a good reputation. It is a safe bet. 
 
JonHyams Posted On:2013-07-28 14:03:08

Tammy, 

Lloyd is right pick a machine that is right for you and your budget. Don't let anyone try and talk you into one machine over another. Try vertical and try pivotal. See what feels right on your body and go from there. I own Nitrofit which I suggest you look into as a more affordable alternative to Hypervibe.  Our Nitrofit Deluxe is very similar in design and function but tuned down to more comfortable frequencies. Depending on what you are looking to use your machine for you may not need so much power. If you try several products and decide to go with ours, please Email me at jon@wholebodyvibration.net. I will be happy to give you more Information as well as give you a discount code to order a machine even cheaper online. 

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-07-26 19:50:29
Tammy ..
 
Hopefully someone gets back to help you out. We do not sell machines, only give advice on the type of units available. At least that stops any confusion on that front.
 
Be aware Pivotal and Lineal are polar opposites. So give both a test following a safety program. DO NOT LISTEN TO THE SALESPERSON. They are often uneducated and have tricks to try and make their unit seem better.
 
Eg... Try a basic squat  and push-up pose  and massage on both types. That will give you a good idea of the differences.
 
 
  
 
jenkins_tammy@bellsouth.net Posted On:2013-07-26 03:16:45

After reading all this Im more confused than ever, Im trying to find some real and honest opinions on what are considered the top 5 machines.. I live in Fort Lauderdale FL and find it really odd that there seems to no where to go and test WBV machines for home use.. Im a normal female 5 5" 118 pounds so all Im really wanting to do is tone and maybe build a little.... I was thinking about the Hyervibe because thats all I seem to read good things about when reseaching the internet.. If anyone can point me to a better or as good machine that does not cost 2,600 that would be great and maybe some place where I can actually try before I buy.. Feel free to email me if you can be of help.. not sure if Im allowed to put my email address on here but Ill try, looks like you cant well I put it in the "Your Name" field.. Any way thanks for any help in advance.. Tammy

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-07-23 15:00:04
Gary...
 
Initially your condition was a strict contraindication to Vibration Training / Therapy. Purely because we were all being cautious. But people treating themselves at home did it anyway ( Cheap Pivotal or Lineal units ) .
 
I have only had about 40 people give me feedback over 10 years, and getting precise info is like getting blood out of a stone ( eg.. what did you buy " I don't know"  What did you do " I cant remember "   but this is what has been concluded to date.... 
 
Pivotal units on a lower speed seemed to give relief and not cause inflammation. Once the unit was turned up over 9hz it caused inflammation the next day. Which as you know can lead in bone spurs and fusion of the joints. I think this is because the side-ways action on the joints is a bit too much for such a sensitive condition.
 
Note: Most of these people were just standing lock legged on the machine. No safety program was being followed.
  
 
Lineal machines.....  Straight on the product seemed to cause inflammation at any Fq no matter how good or bad the pose was done. . Even on weaker units. But once on a foam mat used and proper angles held. No issues were reported.
 
 
Because of this info I have allowed about 3 similar cases as part of my sponsorship program. We always use a foam mat and the cellulite massage is not allowed. No inflammation reported over a 5 year period. 
 
 
I think your best bet would be to use inflammation as your indicator. Try two poses . #1 & #2 on the safety program. 30 seconds of each.  Use a foam mat at all times. Even if you feel good, stop there.
 
 
Wait a few days and any irritation should be obvious. Then please get back to us. 
 
 
Please note:  There is no solid research on this. So you are essentially experimenting on yourself.           
 
Gary Posted On:2013-07-23 07:56:25

Hi lioyd i suffer with ankylosing spondylitis,my local gym has vibrostation lineal units useing  your safety program.ive not had a chance to speak to the instructer yet but do you think it is safe for me to do this form of exercisse.thanks in advance gary

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-07-17 00:17:14
LizaRae
 
FTI... Read the post 16 below.
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-07-17 00:15:33
LizaRae
 
Where in the world are you located ?
 
In my studio you would get free treatment overseen by trainer, on a specialized  unit  And this kind of thing will be available globally by the time I have finished my work.
 
But in the mean time. I need to know where you are to best advise you. ( and no I will not be selling you anything I make money off ).
 
LizaRae Posted On:2013-07-16 19:49:57

Help LIke many other severely overweight and unfit people I need advice before I even consider any sort of  excercise, particularly when it involves the purchase of an expensive piece of equipment. I have bought things in the past, opened the box and found a leaflet saying I should not use this without a doctors advice, or should not use it at all, a foot spa. Can you advise me on the suitablitiy of vibration therapy exercise for a 69 year old obese lady with diabetic neuropathy which makes my feet so painful that walking is difficult, arrythmia, angina, kidney damage due to the diabetes. I have a venous return problem in my legs and am told not to massage them. I have broken both ankles at different times, the left one being particulary painful from time to time. I have been unable to find any exercixse classes for larger ladies and gyms are full of skinny people so I would be embarrassed to go and work out in one. I would swim but the local pool does not have a fat ladies session and what fat lady wants to don a swimsuit and go in a pool with kids Why is it that those of us who really need help with fitness training cannot get it. My doctor is a dead loss, I know what constitutes a healthy diet and am trying to stick to it, but being fairly immobile the weight does not come off, so what happens, I get discouraged, think blow this, and have a bar of chocolate. People tell me go for a walk but my feet are so painflul this is not an option. Anyone out there got any solutions It would be of particular interest if anyone had had the same sort of problems a s most of the fitness instructors Ihave talked to have never been anything but 150 percent fit and have no idea what it is to be plagued by illness or disability.Sorry, boys and girls, unless you have been there you do not know. Reading about it in a a textbook is  not a good training.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-07-16 18:31:58
John..
 
From what I have seen over the years. the NSCA has become a marketing vehicle.  Hence the encroachment by PTs It's demise under the pretense it was set up was inevitable. 
 
No-one with a scientific mind will miss it.
 
John Posted On:2013-07-15 08:31:39

I spoke earlier today with someone who attended the NSCA Conference in Vegas.  It appears it is fading away.  This person said it seems more for personal trainers now instead of for strength and conditioning coaches and training athletes.  The NSCA has gotten away from the foundation it was started on which was for strength and conditioning coaches who worked with competitive athletes and not personal trainers working with the general population.

John T. Weatherly

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-07-07 18:50:46
And the CrossFit instructor of the year goes to.....
 
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-07-07 09:53:33
Selling out to Power Plate is going to come back and haunt the  NSCA
 
Fake machines', fake trainers, fake academic experts. All fading away as predicted.
 
But it all had to play out like this. Remember I was at the Power Plate meeting in 2004 when they outlined the 10 year plan to dupe everybody. But they needed "soft targets" ( people with little critical thinking resistance ) This list included some athletic institutions. a certain celebrity endorsement reliant male / female demographic and people with non- specific medical afflictions.    
 
It was made very clear these people where to be targets because they were less likely to ask for outside help and advice. Even if they became suspicious. 
   
 
Got to give them credit for picking their victims wisely.
 
 
John Posted On:2013-07-06 11:13:54

I just checked the exhibitors list for the NSCA Conference in Vegas next week and Power Plate does not appear to be showing up.  Hmmm, Power Plate had been a corporate partner or "sponsor" for the NSCA.  So, apparently Power Plate North America is in trouble like Power Plate in other parts of the world or else the NSCA finally got wise and dumped Power Plate.

John T. Weatherly

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-06-29 12:52:55
Off Topic, but industry related  ...
 
 
 
 
Now to the topic.... Which is how fitness industry / marketers high-jack disciplines with a good history.. Water them down, make them unsafe or ineffective and destroy their previously good reputation.
 
 
Pilates
Zumba
Boot Camp
Kettle Bells 
 
Now.....  CrossFit.
 
 
Here is a good article about some of the negative things going on in CrossFit right now.....
 
 
 
 
 
But this is my main point, which I also made about Pilates...... A question to the real CrossFit instructors of the world....
 
 
When a bunch of quite obviously dangerous idiots, who are not "experts" in a discipline you hold dear. Decide your industry is the 'next big thing"  What do you do ?.
 
 
(a)  Make it very clear publically you do not endorse these armatures. And do your best to warn the public about your concerns.
 
(b)   Sell out and ride the wave of popularity.
 
 
 
Now before you say that riding the wave is what everyone naturally does. Other disciplines and real experts have said no in the past. The classic case being the popularity wave of Karate after the movie Karate Kid came out in the 80s. Lots of yahoos decided overnight to become Karate instructors, set up fake "classes" in the local town halls or gyms. But the Karate community came out swinging and contacting local councils or other influential parties got then closed down. On top of that they actually used pure intimidation to get the job done.
 
Anti-competitive .... ( which of course what the fake experts cried ) ... NO.
 
Protective of their discipline...  Yes.
 
 
To any of the Cross Fit instructors out there that sold out. Start finding a new job. Because my prediction is you have all played a part in the destruction of a discipline thousands of years old..                
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2013-06-26 13:16:59

Casey, I checked things out for you.

Revibe, Alberta is operating again as a vibration training studio.  If you are near them give them a call.

BUT – be aware – as Lloyd said, in the past they trained people in their studio using LINEAL, Vibrogym machines. 

Then they started selling PIVOTAL,  Hypervibe machines directly to the public and through trade shows and fairs and at that time they started telling people that Lineal machines were very dangerous (they’re not – it was simply marketing talk). On the Hypervibe website it makes claims about Lineal versus Pivotal – pushing Pivotal as the only safe option (again, simply marketing. You are very welcome to contact me if want to discuss this).

NOW: When you go to see the machines please ask them (given what they have said anti – lineal machines)

WHY DO THEY HAVE  LINEAL, VIBROGYM MACHINES IN THEIR NEW STUDIO?

 (I’ve seen a picture showing both pivotal Hypervibe and  lineal Vibrogym machines in the room, with the Vibrogym turned on.  Based on their reply you can decide if you trust them and want to buy off them.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-06-25 14:51:47
Mellow...
 
The DKN units are Medium Energy Lineal.. But better quality than say a Power Plate. We have been recommending DKN for years.  
 
You want to go for the XG-10 . You will outgrow the other too quickly.
 
Mellow Posted On:2013-06-25 08:18:58

So from what I can tell, the Galileo machines are very good.  I read somewhere that the DKN Technology machines are also very good, but not as expensive.  What do you know about these, and what do you know about the different models  XG10, XG5 Pro, and the XG3.  I am planning on using it for a good workout and stretching benefits, not therapy.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-06-24 14:16:06
Peter...
 
Having a link to vibrationtraining.net and Gabriel Ettenson's studio on you site is not a good look. You may want to take it off in case someone thinks you are actually involved with them.
 
They are both neck deep in some pretty unethical behavior.
 
Casey.....  The Galileo units found at MotionHeath.ca  are top notch. 
 
Peter Posted On:2013-06-24 00:43:06

Hello Lloyd

Might I be of assistance to Casey here in Canada should she need direction to studios. Feel free to reach out via our site MotionHeath.ca

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-06-22 18:06:46
 
 
 Casey..
 
Your massage came out garbled, but I suppose you mean  ....  http://www.revibecanada.ca .  
 
Was / is ? owned by Deb and Dan Pelletier .Launched in 2007 . I do not know if it still runs as a studio, or just a showroom. You would need to contact them directly for that info.
 
 
My opinion is based on experience...
 
 I had a good relationship with them and did my best to help them, until they hooked up with a sales based company and started putting money before everything else.
 
Eg....  (1)  Started scare monger marketing tactics, basically telling people Lineal machines ( they sell Pivotal now ) may give you brain damage or blind you.( they used an experiment where monkeys were tortured to death to "prove" their point. Not joking )   Even though they successfully ran a studio full of Lineal machines for years. And both used them with no issues And they freely took advice from studios that had been operating since 2003 ??
 
I emailed them on this point. Zero reply.
 
Note: They eventually stopped. But only after 9 companies signed a petition, online statement and articles slamming them. My opinion is they only changed behavior because it was effecting sales. Not because of ethics.    
 
 
 (2) Started to promote unsafe / insane instructions ( lets try a 10 minute push up and see what happens ) As you can see below they still promote this via SEO advertising.       

 

 

 
 
 
 
I emailed them on this very concerning point on 28/11/2010. I got this response ....  
 

" .. article has been requested to be pulled and amended accordingly. It is being corrected. "  

 

3 years later and it is still up. I think it is safe to say they don't care.

 
 
(3)  Supports a fake consumer protection website that is infamous for plagiarizing other peoples work, and deleting warranty issues from companies paying for advertising on the site.
 
 
 
I personally have serious issues with anyone who "changes their mind" like their underpants, depending on where the money is coming from. These types of people in my opinion do nothing but cause confusion and mistrust in an already confusing and 99% dodgy industry.
 
 
CASEY Posted On:2013-06-22 14:54:33

Sorry dont know what happened to my message. Was reading online about  Revibe studio in Canada. What do you know about them 

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-06-21 21:56:53
I know you are right. The fact is though the Politically Correct BS has gotten in the way for too long. And none wants to be responsible for offending someone now.
 
A much more honest and stronger message needs to be sent, but here is the problem. Too much blame and not enough real world alternative solutions. Same problem at both ends of the spectrum really.
 
 
 
All I can say is. I am prepared to make a lot of enemies to be a part of the cure. Vibration Training being only one part of  that cure.
 
 
 
 
" See me now, or see me later "....  A message from your friendly Mortician. 
 
Jon H. Posted On:2013-06-21 20:30:09

Lloyd,

I like the comment about the obesity epidmic. Unfortunately we live in a strange time where people expect to be helped without thinking twice about helping themselves. Most government systems and programs are designed to protect people from themselves.  In a country likes the United States we tend to take the ready... fire... aim approach.  We are now reeling from the side effects caused by the additives and hormones in our foods.  All of which have been allowed by the FDA"food and drug Admin".

 The problem is big business spending money to keep the decision makers at bay.  They can afford to fight a bill against their products that allows them to continue using harmful ingredients to produce cheaper products. Think of this anology.... Samsung has no problem paying Apple a  billion dollars for a patent infringement which allowed them to make 10 billion dollars.  Its cheaper for big brand food companies to pay out the cancer law suits than it is to produce better quality foods. The big fat obese picture of course is wieghing out evils that eat at thier bottom line ....NO PUNS INTENDED THERE.....okay okay one more .....here it comes..  The only people CUTTING THE FAT are the food companies looking for bigger profits.  The fat being truly healthy ingredients that increase product costs.

Just like the vibration world there is so much misinformation and deceptive marketing that lead the average consumer to beleive that they can continue eating crappy products.  There also comes a point where socio economic factors play into this.  If you are on a tight budget then you buy cheaper food.  In my country... USA.. the cheap stuff is grocery store junk and fast food.  Its become such a problem that the U.S. government is now limiting the amount of junk food that can be purchased with  government subsidized food stamps . In some many words they realized that they were indirectly promoting obesity by subsizing food cards for those on welfare. Quite frankly I am amazed that they just realized that their programs would backfire on them.   

Heres a thought. What if we decided to limit health insurance contingent on body weight proportionate to ones average size give or take a few kilos.  Be it socialized healthcare or privatized.  If we told people that they will have to come out of pocket more if they dont meet certain health criteria on thier own. Its simple really stay in better shape or pay more or possibly be uninsurable.  We all know that obesity leads to a myriad of illnesses.  It eventually becomes a burden on the health care system and drives the cost up for everyone else.  I am frankly sick of paying for someones healthcare who cant figure out how to eat sensibly .  They should all be singled out and grouped in a separate plan that forces them to compensate for thier hazardous eating habits.  

What do you think

 
CASEY Posted On:2013-06-21 19:59:21
Lloyd Do you know who these people are <a href="\" _cke_saved_href="\"http://www.revibecanada.ca/\"" title="\"http://www.revibecanada.ca/" ctrl="" +="" click="" to="" follow="" link\"="">http://www.revibecanada.ca/</a></font></div>
 
John Posted On:2013-06-21 03:30:31

That was stated well Lloyd.  Back in my early college years which has been some time ago now, there was a focus on disease prevention with exercise, nutrition, integrating corporate fitness programs, cardiac rehab etc.  Most universities teach all of this stuff and it has not worked for the general public.  The general population seems to be fatter and in worse shape than ever.   My main interest has always been sports science to improve athletic performance but I was inundated in my univeristy training with exercise for disease prevention, rehab, etc.  It has not worked for the general public.

John T. Weatherly

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-06-20 21:51:22

Vibration Training  What's the real deal? ( published 25/12/2005 )

 

Vibration Training  eh? Sound like an infomercial on steroids doesn’t it, a get rich quick scheme for those who missed out on the Pilates rush. Well you are kinda right , there are plenty of folks who now think this may be their meal ticket. The kind of people who didn’t even know this existed a year ago. But now claim it’s a miracle cure for just about everything and they are ALL experts. Fantastic .Makes you want to run out and jump onto anything that vibrates  . But unfortunately its not that simple, or I would be advising everyone to go stand on their lawn mower.


The truth is Vibra- Train was launched in New Zealand by myself, but not to make a quick buck. I am a mortician by trade and was alarmed at the increasing rate of morbid obesity and type2 diabetes. And instead of sitting around and whinging about it, decided to actually do something. And that something was Vibration Training.


Now morbid obesity is a hard one to tackle, everyone keeps telling them the same thing, go on a diet, exercise more, go on a diet, did I mention exercise more?

Well call me stupid BUT ITS NOT WORKING. We have more professional nutritionists, more diet books, more gyms and more home exercise tools than ever in the history of man. But a higher obesity rate? Now I may just be a mortician but the message is definitely being lost in translation or I wouldn’t be writing this column. What most of the “experts” were failing to do was really put themselves in an overweight persons shoes. What is it like when you feel your weight has already gone too far and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. And also failing to understand, that people only take advice and act on it when they are feeling confident about themselves.


I saw Vibration Training as a way for people to exercise in a new way that they had no preconceptions about. What I mean is this, when you mention “diet” to most people it usually means “go without”. It has a negative connotation attached to it before you even finish the advice. When you mention exercise to someone who hasn’t done it in years, automatically images of puffing and wheezing your way through a workout or even a walk come to mind. And that’s not even mentioning the embarrassment factor. And you don’t have to be obese to feel like this. As we get older everything seems more like an effort. And no one wants to look as though they are dying right? But with Vibration Training we get around all that and do something completely different, that is also more effective. .


The thing about all the above exercise formats is that they use voluntary movement to burn off energy. Is there another way? You bet there is. Its not new and when I finish explaining it to you, you will wonder why it hasn’t been done before. It goes like this, a voluntary reflex is what we use to walk, jump, run etc. During this movement you use about 40% of your muscle cells. You think about it and you move, simple right? But think about this, when someone pushes you, you automatically push back to stop yourself from falling over. How does that happen? As with most things that are normal, we seldom look at it closely. Its called an “Involuntary Stretch Reflex” and its what we use to balance. Our body has an automatic response built into it to try and equal the force being pushed against it ( an eccentric contraction ) . The important thing to note here is your body will recruit approx 100% of you muscle cells during this moment, no expense is spared to stop yourself from falling over. And your muscles are also able to move a lot quicker in this response mode than you ever though possible.

Now the good thing about involuntary responses is firstly, they are involuntary, you don’t have to try. And the second is they are always intact no matter how out of shape you are. So to recap, it happens without me having to try and I am already fit enough to do it? What’s the catch you ask, well its kind of hard in its own way..

But here’s for the good news, the more out of shape you are, the faster the results. Again its exactly the opposite than most training methods we are taught. Now you are wondering around about now, if this is so good, why have I not heard of it before. Simple, lack of education. Involuntary reflexes and Vibration Training is not part of any curriculum in any University, anywhere. So I had to spend 3yrs chasing up this knowledge myself before we opened. I also build machines for athletes and people who are in wheelchairs. So you are not just dealing with one of those people who are jumping on this bandwagon to make a quick buck, If you come into Vibra-Train you will be dealing with the people who brought it here. You will be put on a machine of the best quality . You will be doing a program I designed. And you won’t regret it. Remember I am a mortician, I deal in absolutes, you are either dead or alive. There is no “results may vary” in my vocabulary. If you come to my studios, you do as you are told, you will get results.


And I promise I wont give you any diets or life-style advice. , you already have that in droves . But you watch what happens when you start looking and feeling better. Maybe , just maybe it makes changing those things a bit easier.

 
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