Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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June Posted On:2013-06-02 15:13:15

Hello Lloyd,

Thank you so much for the information I will do this with my grandson.   I retread my first post and saying I literally stumbled on the nitrofit made me laugh. Well thanks to this site I will not literally stumble on it since I set it up in a good place.  Looking forward to see where using this machine takes me. The lineal machines may be the next step. I have other people in mind for use of WBV machines whose needs are different from mine and I am very grateful that I now know better then to get suckered into the hype. 

june

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-06-02 10:33:01
June....
 
With children of any age here are the guidelines .
 
(1) They can only do poses, they can do properly / perfectly, for the given period of time. .My advice is to start on a basic squat, and only that. Perfect it, then add another.
 
Depending on the spectrum of autism, if he has OCD. Use that to your advantage. Only run the machine for as long as his attention span holds.
 
Note: Literally make it a step by step process you NEVER change. Even allowing him to be sloppy once could undo months of work.
 
 
 
 
(2)  Always run the machine on low speed.      
 
June Posted On:2013-06-02 02:02:20

Hello everyone,

I don't want to infer that Jon hasn't been extremely helpful and informative. I just wanted to say without this site I probably would have added the exercises if I may even call them that to my regimen without even asking Jon about it. Because I would assume that they were the correct thing to do. 

Thank you

june

 
June Posted On:2013-06-02 01:38:55

Hello everyone,

i purchased the Nitrofit Deluxe WBV machine, it arrived on Thursday.  I am almost 64 years old and have pretty much recovered from aheart condition brought on by a viral infection. It is chronic but I am doing very well. I decided to get a WBV to help with bone density and to just help with overall well being and get up and go. I plan to combine it with exercises with a kettlebell. I feel fortunate that I literally stumbled on the nitrofit instead of getting a machine I was considering buying on Amazon. 

Jon from nitrofit referred me to this site. I have read all the articles and all of the posts on this forum discussion the information is invaluable, it has answered a lot of my questions and has informed me on what to do with the nitrofit. If I hadn't been referred here I would have been tucking my pelvis and moving in the poses recommended by so many YouTube videos. I downloaded your pdf file for the oscillating machines and my husband took it to Staples, where he had a beautiful wall poster printed. 

I asked Jon this question but I realized I could also ask on this forum. My 8 year old grandson is diagnosed with autism. He is fairly high on the spectrum. One of the problems these children face is lack of muscle tone that can affect coordination and fine motor capabilities. I wanted to have hi use this machine but how would I have him use it.  

Thank you

june

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-05-27 13:50:23
To clarify why bonevibration can not be trusted to give full disclosure advice......
 
 
  Here are the specifications VibraTrim used to sell machines for years,  http://www.myvibratrim.com/specs.html
 
Note:
SPECIFICATIONS for the VT100
FREQUENCY
0-55 Hz
 
 
 
 
 
But the VT100 is now listed as  " 14 hz" ?
 
 
Why did they start telling the truth all of a sudden after lying for 5 years. Because they wanted to release a much more expensive new machine, the VT400 ( which by the way only goes to 30hz on Pivotal / Oscillating made )
 
The fact is the older model was a 14hz $80 machine from China. That they were lying about so they could sell it for $1200.
 
 
 
And this lie they told older, disabled or gullible people about Lineal Vibration to scare them into buying Pivotal  ...
 
" The piston Lineal style offers a straight up and down motion just like a jackhammer. This type of “up and down” piston movement and vibration is known to cause problems that can develop into bad backs (truck drivers and others) and other various physical areas (carpal tunnel)"
 
Wonder if they still tell people this now they sell a machine with a  Lineal function ( the VT400 )   
 
 
 
The guy at bonevibration claims to be out to protect the consumer. And even warns people about fake specs, and openly tells people how important to your results they can be. But he sells for one of the worst scammers we have seen. 
 
 
Yea right.
 
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-05-23 21:24:28
I actually thought this description was accurate for those types of machines ....
 
 Medium Energy Lineal

Based on the Higher Energy platforms, but lighter and are usually made of plastic or tin so they give slower, less consistent results. This would make up a majority of Lineal units produced and range in size from no larger than your foot to 3 feet wide. Size may be no indication of quality and force so a test drive is essential. These tend to be the favorite “confusing ground” for marketers and lots of broken promises and machines are what’s left behind. These machines will work to a degree, but depending on the quality go from good to useless, especially if you think you have purchased something greater than it is
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-05-23 20:57:20
Read this...
 
 
I do not like Power Plate because they started the dishonesty in our industry. They lead the way in misleading the consumer and business owners. Power Plate machines are what they are, medium Energy Lineal units.
 
The Vibracore units you mentioned before are clones of those.
 
Any machine listed as a wellness unit, is weak. Not a workout machine.. So great if you only want the therapy benefits.
 
    
 
bonevibration.com ?   Not a trustworthy site. It is purely a sales based site. None of the info is impartial or based on knowledge.
 
Jon Posted On:2013-05-23 18:53:38

Hi Lloyd. 

Could you be a little clearer about your thoughts on the vibacore. Would you recommend these machines. Since I was under the impression you were not very fond of power plate from your other articles. 

Where would you classify these machines? 3000 and 5000?

Where would you classify the fbe wellness machine? 

Have you ever come across bonevibration.com. Is this a trustworthy sight??

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-05-23 15:18:47
Jonathan...
 
The VibraCore 3000 is similar to a Power Plate My5. The 5000 is very similar to a Power Plate Pro 5 ( I have experience with this factories products ).   
 
 
Jonathan Posted On:2013-05-23 12:24:55

Hi,

Whats your take on the Vibacore 3000 and Vibacore 5000. Ive been told they are similar to the powerplate my5 and my7. Thoughts

are these good quality machines, in comparison to something like the hypervibe

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-05-17 18:25:06
Older article revisited
 
 
 
Note' An "instant vibration training expert" ( Gabriel Ettenson ) disputed online there was no such distinction. Another useless academic failing to understand the basics before jumping into our industry and imparting their wisdom. .
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-05-16 20:48:22
Jonathan....
 
Any Pivotal machine going over 20 hz gives a great training effect. But it is much harder to be precise in the poses than Lineal. So yes my safety program does work, but be careful.
 
My basic Pivotal program instructions.....
 
 
 
Standing Therapy ..... ( Lowest --- medium speed. Warning... Never high speed. )
 
This is a Vibration Therapy pose. A very good warm-up for the exercise program and an overall wellness position. 
 
(1)  Feet hip width apart, perfectly straight.
 
(2)  Hold onto handle bar lightly.
 
(3)  Legs locked or slightly bent depending on comfort levels.
 
 
Basic squat...... ( Medium speed  --  Warning... High speed only if an athlete with good instruction )
 
Step ...... 
 
 (1) Feet hip width apart and perfectly straight.
 
 (2) Heels at the back edge of plate.
 
(3) Hold onto handle bars lightly ( no pulling or swinging )
 
(4) Drop down into a deep squat, forehead almost touching the handle bar.
 
Safety Notes:  Keep balanced at all times, no swinging back on the handle bars. Keep your feet flat on the plate, which means equal pressure through your heels and toes.  Make sure knees do not come together as you fatigue. Push stop if you feel you are losing form and move onto the next pose.
 
Push-Up...  ( Lowest speed )
 
(1)  Kneel in front of machine.
 
(2) Place hands near outside edge of platform.
 
(3) Tip head forward so you are directly looking at your knee area.
 
(4) Keeping your back straight, slowly lower your body halfway towards the plate, by bending your elbows in an exaggerated direction out to the sides.
 
Safety notes : Never look up during the pose. If you feel like you are losing form, sit back away from the machine.
 
Wide Stance Squat..... ( medium -- highest speed only if athlete with good instruction )
 
(1)  Put toes over the top of the steel pins ( where the arm straps attach ) so your feet are pointing at a slight angle outwards. 
 
(2)  Hold onto handle bar lightly.
 
(3) Drop down into a deep squat by keeping your knees in line with your toes. Forehead almost touching the handle bar.
 
(4)  Keep most of your weight through your heels.
 
Safety Notes:  Make sure your knees do not start coming together as you fatigue.  Push stop if you feel you are losing form and move onto the next pose. 
 
 
 
Triceps dip .......  ( lowest speed )
 
(1) Sit on edge of machine.
 
(2) Place hands next to your hips ( no gaps ) fingers pointing straight out.
 
(3) Slide forward and drop a few inches down the front face of the machine by bending your elbows in an exaggerated direction out to the sides.
 
(4)  Look directly at your knee area the whole time.
 
 
Safety notes:  Keep contact with lower back on machine at all times, never pull away from the machine. Never look up during the pose. Keep fingers pointing straight at all times.
 
 
Seated abdominal  Therapy ........   ( Low --- Medium speed )
 
 
(1) Sit upright in the center of the machine.
 
(2)  Put feet flat on the ground, knees bent.
 
(3)  Cross arms over your chest and relax.
 
 
Seated abdominal   Workout   ( Low --- Medium speed ) 
 
(1) Sit upright in the center of the machine.
 
(2)  Put feet flat on the ground, knees bent.
 
(3)  Cross arms over your chest and relax.
 
(4)  Lean back until tension can be felt in abdominal area.
 
Safety note:  Always keep feet flat on ground and do not lean back so far you tip over .  
 
 
 
Pelvic stability  ( low speed )     Advanced pose
 
(1) Place foam mat on ground body length away from machine.
 
(2)  Kneel on the ground facing away from the machine, placing your elbows and forearms on the foam mat clasping hands together.
 
(3) Place toes on outside edge of machine.
 
(4)  Lift your knees off the ground and locking your body into a classic "plank" position ( straight back ) 
 
 
Relaxing stretch ......   ( Low -------  Medium Speed )
 
(1)  Stand in the middle of the platform, feet hip width apart and straight. . 
 
(2)  Keeping your legs locked or slightly unlocked ( depending on knee comfort levels ) bend forward gently and relax.
 
 
Safety note:  This is NOT a forced stretch,  it works on completely different principles than a normal stretch. No effort is put into touching your toes. If it happens naturally then let it, but never apply force to pose.
 
 
 Anti-Cellulite Massage    ( High Speed most effective )
 
(1)  Sit in the center on the machine. Legs outstretched in front of you with the back of your knees in line with the front edge of the machine.
 
(2)  Lean forward and relax.
 
 
Super Squat.....    Low -- Medium  --- High speed only if athlete with good instruction   ( advanced pose + balance )
 
(1)  Stand on the plate facing away from the control consol.
 
(2) Feet hip width apart and perfectly straight.
 
(3) Toes near the front edge of the plate.
 
(4)  Keeping feet flat on the plate, equal pressure into heels and toes. Drop down into a deep squat position ( almost like sitting in a chair ).
 
 
Safety note:  Use your arms and upper body as a counter balance and make sure your knees do not come together. When the machine stops do not jump off straight away as your muscles may be fatigued. Just stand up a rest.
 
This pose should only be attempted by more experienced users. Repeat the Basic Squat if unsure of balance.     
 
 
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-05-16 20:41:54
Dean Mistura.....
 
Good idea. Just been concentrating on expanding my business of late, so haven't moved the website forward. 
 
 
Jonathan ........  This is the website and guy you should go to for advice of that kind. http://www.vibrationexercise.com/
 
I only promote static poses ( these are my protocols. Plenty of Physios use incorporate movement ). And have found the basic squat to do a lot more for injuries than you would expect. But giving it time to heal first is a must.
 
Great Vibrations......   contact this guy ( Dr Jasper Sidhu   info@vibrationexercise.com ) . He should know of a repair person based in Canada who can help.
 
About Wave......  This is what happens when a group of marketers take over a company. They have no sense of accountability.  
 
 
   
 
Jonathan Posted On:2013-05-16 20:41:32

Hi Dean,

Would a pivotal machine like the Hypervibe be useful in rehabilitation compared to a lineal. Would a safety program be like the ones Lloyd has posted

 

Lloyd. I read up a little more on pivotal vs lineal, and the general idea I am getting is that lineal is better for strength training or workouts, and pivotal is more suited for therapeutic purposes. You equated a premium speed pivotal to a medium energy lineal, so could I make the assumption premium speed pivotals do have some use for workout or strength traning, but ultimately high energy lineals will take you the extra step over

For home use, I am assuming high energy lineals would be out of my price range, but a premium speed pivotal such as the hypervibe would be a decent choice, to achieve a decent workout strength training program

 
Dean Mistura Posted On:2013-05-16 06:15:29

Jonathan

Regarding your question about vibration exercises after total achilies tendon rupture.
We use lineal vibration as part of rehabilitation six weeks after surgery, but that is suitable only with physio skilful in vibration therapy. If you are going to use it by yourself, the safest way is to wait 12 weeks to be sure healing of the tendon is finished, and then go to vibration exercise. Than you can start right on to a safety program. It will reduce any residual swelling and thickness, as well as promote flexibility.  

Lloyd
Perhaps it would be a good idea to have part of this web site dedicated to usage of vibration stimuli in medicine. I think we can help my colleagues with practical advices in particular disorders, injuries, and postoperative recovery. The idea is to share experience, describe specific cases, and details in applying vibration to a patient.   

 

 
Great Vibrations Posted On:2013-05-16 06:14:21

Need help we have Several Wave Vibration Plates the company has apparently gone out of business. We are having touch screen issues they cannot be repaired and we have no way to get new ones. Any ideas These are expensive high end machines that we cannot just throw away.

 
Jonathan Posted On:2013-05-15 22:43:52

Hi Lloyd,

I am in Canada. 

So if I am understanding you right, you are saying that a premium speed pivotal is pretty much equivalent to a medium energy lineal. 

I am currently looking at the Hypervibe, and around that price range. Would you recommend the Hypervibe, and are there any cons to this unit that you know of or can forsee.

Is there anything else you would recommend looking at in the under 5000 dollar range.

 

Lastly, I was curious about the use of WBV for rehabilitation. For example, if one were to recover from a achilles tendon rupture, would WBV facilitate the recovery process, or would it be contraindicated. What kind of exercises would you recommend.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-05-15 00:51:32
Jonathan ...
 
What country are you in ???. The world is a large place and location is an important factor in any recommendations we give
 
Results.... A Medium Energy Lineal should give similar results to a Premium Speed Pivotal. Depending on how strict the user is.
 
 
Why we don't list brand names on the review.... Well with over 250 + brands, some of who change names or factories each year. It would be a waste of time, and useless as any buyers guide.   
 
Instead we have categorized the machines into terms any layperson with zero engineering experience can grasp.
 
Eg.... very similar to vehicles..  Motor Bike, Hatch-back , 4WD or Truck ?  Brands comes second to knowing what function you need first. 
 
 
 
CV9 Vs Cardio-tech. ...  here is an opinion piece by Di Heap on this very subject.....
 
 
My advice....  for any brand or type of machine is simple. Sort out a few primary poses you will most likely use. And try then out on all units. Because some designs are more suited to some positions, some no good. 
 
Rule #1...  Try before you buy.  
 
Jonathan Posted On:2013-05-14 12:33:22

Hi,

I am looking into getting an affordable WBV machine for home use. Some questions that I have not been able to find the answer for looking through your articles are...

1. What are the pros and cons of pivotal and lineal units. I understand they are different, but what benefits could I expect from each.

2. What do you recommend for lineal units... ie. best price and performance

3. What do you recommend for pivotal units... 

... in your Machine Reviews section, I cannot tell what some of the units are, as you simply only have the pictures and no names. Any thoughts on the hypervibe unit compared to the cardiotech CV9. From all I have read about, the Hypervibe seems the most affordable, but perhaps there is another unit I am not aware of. 

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2013-05-13 11:51:33

My new article:

Vibration Training –Women’s Anti-Cellulite Massage - Part 2 – what it feels like 

(after all you are sitting on the world’s most powerful vibrators?)

http://www.vibeplus.com/2013/05/06/vibration-training-anti-cellulite-massage-part-2/

Plus, if you missed it, here’s a link to Part 1 – explaining the position and its benefits

http://www.vibeplus.com/2013/04/18/vibration-training-anti-cellulite-massage/

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-05-05 09:36:31
With my list of companies and sites never to be trusted http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/consumer-guide-and-safety-program/the-blacklist, now proven by time as 100% correct.  My past predictions should now hopefully be taken seriously by people who believe in logic and experience as opposed to " I just don't like them" 
 
Every individual or company I have attacked in the past turned out to be Con-artists. And they continue to be dishonest.           
 
My new blacklist being published soon will give examples of reasons these companies and individuals are not men / woman of their word. So hopefully it gives you the consumer, a chance to make an educated choice to buy off them.
 
 
And yes. I will be naming names, not just companies.  Because companies cant be dishonest, only people.
 
Please note: Some of these people had threatened legal action in the past. And told me I had simply got them wrong, or even accused me publically of being a lair. Time has shown that not to be the case. They were bad people all along.
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-05-05 01:14:45
My words repeated once again.....
 
Even though only a few of us can be trusted  to use this knowledge and science to help you, help yourself.
 
Never forget for everyone one of us, there 100 who do not care but for what is in your wallet.  
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-04-30 14:01:53
Which model did you purchase ?
 
I have sent out an email to someone in Canada ( close to Wave ) to hopefully get some info.
 
A bunch of marketers took over the company Wave a while ago. Before that they were very trustworthy.
 
Jan Posted On:2013-04-30 05:11:42

About a year ago, I purchased a WBV machine from the Wave, out of Canada.  It was very noisy, so we moved it  to the garage.  As a result, we didnt use it for a few months.  We decided we should get back into trying it again, plugged it in, turned it on, and it didnt work.  Tried to contact the Wave people and it looks like they closed up.  Now we dont know how to get this expensive machine thats hardly been used fixed.    Any suggestions.

 
Comment from Tublr Posted On:2013-04-28 17:50:38

My Mum and I went for a power plate session today. After, a few exercises my Mum said she wanted to stop that she couldn’t take how much it was vibrating though her head. I tried to carry on for a while but eventually, I had to stop as well. The guy doing the session for us was like “Well this is what it’s like so….” and we ended up just stopping.

I’ve done power plate before and while it can take some getting used to, I don’t think it’s ever been like it was today. I can’t imagine anyone being able to take it. He was having us stand up on it and lift a weight and when you stand up straight you get the full vibration through your head and it’s horrible.

My Mum felt a bit annoyed about it and said she hadn’t felt safe with what she was being asked to do. She’s also annoyed with this same guy because she feels like he never took in to account that she’s a 65 year old who hasn’t ever really done gym work (she’s always done yoga, Pilates stuff like that.)

It made me think about how easy it can be to really put someone off from exercising or make them feel anxious about because you can’t really be bothered to do your job properly. It’s a real shame.

Has anyone had a bad experience like this?

 

This is how Power Plate is turning people off Vibration Training. Standing upright on the machine, making people lift weights ?? 

Pretend experts strike again.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-04-20 11:53:08
Another story in a long line of similar stories I have read lately. Where hosts or trainers of weight loss shows gain large amounts of weight quickly.
 
 
 
And what do these shows have in common? 
 
(1)  Promoting exercise myths for weight loss ( aka...  making fat people run around as some form of  " Reality /  Embarrassment TV" )
 
 
 
(2) All run by people who have never been obese. And are obviously clueless as to the dangers of doing cardio when over-weight. And are also delusional about how much fat cardio can burn anyway.   
 
 
A small true story.....
 
 
A female celebrity trainer who in my country was known as " no excuses, trainer from hell"  ( Downsize Me )  who just loved to make over-weight people run around in boot-camp style shows. Yelling at them the whole time.
 
Anyway near the end of one show, due to injuries some could not go ( or would not go ) to the park and run around. So the producers brought them into Vibra-Train. In 2 weeks the results were so good, ( and safe ) the over-weight contestants were ecstatic.
 
Until they were told by the producers they were no longer welcome at Vibra-Train, Which was a complete lie.
 
What had really happened ?
 
The celebrity trainer demanded Vibra-Train be taken out of the sessions because it made her look basically redundant ( making someone stay still does not take much yelling )  I only found out about this some time after the show finished. Talking about putting your own ego before your clients results.
 
 
She is now overweight ( 20kg heavier ) And of course now making all the excuses in the world.
 
 
What I would love to do.....
 
Get some of these now over-weight trainers and put them in a show. Where someone 10 years younger than them gets to yell at them and run around in circles.
 
And then make them give back all the money they took giving out BS advice.                  
 
John Posted On:2013-04-19 01:06:56

Even researchers will say the quality of research is poor.  Dr. Greg Haff, who I have met, recently said on social media that he is now officially a citizen of Australia which means he will be able to get some quality research done.  Dr. Haff is from the US and went to Edith Cowan University in Australia to be a professor instead of stay in the US.  So, Dr. Haff sure must not think much of a lot of exercise research at universities in the US.

John T. Weatherly

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-04-16 21:57:15
" Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas "
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2013-04-16 18:58:19

 

Lloyd, you left out half of the press release.

 

Vibrogym has appointed both  Guus Van der Meer and also Jelte Tempelaars to it’s top management. The press release says, they will be working alongside their original marketing team, Entice Communications, who helped drive the profile of Power Plate International over the last 9 years. The release says their enthusiasm and expertise will take Vibrogym to the next level.

 

We all know what the “next level” was for Powerplate - administration, that it hasn’t crawled out of.  Can I say  “gone” , “finished” , “leaving customers with no hope of support or service for machines”.

 

The level for Vibrogym ..... will be interesting to watch.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2013-04-16 15:50:26
Vibro Gym must be desperate
 
 
This from their own website.....
 
 
 
" delighted to announce the appointment of industry innovator Guus Van der Meer to its management team "

" Guus left Power Plate International after its recent fall into administration ",.

"When production for Power Plate machines was subsequently transferred to China ( by Guus himself ) , the initial manufacturer in the Netherlands continued to produce, develop and sell the original design under the name Vibrogym.

 

Guus now says......   " I am delighted to be going back to our roots, working again with the original manufacturer, who uses the very best materials, technology and design to deliver a machine that excels in durability, performance and quality".

 

So lets spell this out folks .....

 

(1) The guy who got fake machines made of the Dutch machine. All of which broke.

(2) High-jacked the goodwill of the original steel machine for marketing purposes.( fake awards etc... ) .  

(3) Then goes on to "design" a machine worse than anything else ever produced ( real plastic piece of crap ) . 

(4) Started the whole fake specification issue, which has widely effected hundreds of research papers.

(5) Then proceeded to oversee the biggest failure of any Vibration Training company,( putting Power Plate into administration ).

 

Vibro Gym just committed suicide taking this guy on. 

 
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