Notice Dr. Cardinale has not yet come back on here to rebuttal Lloyd.  Also notice Dr. Cardinale will not name the company on here.  It is ludicrous to expect people, especially in these economic times, to subscribe to the journal to read in the metnods section somewhere what platform was used.  Marco mentioned the article himself on his site and yet will not tell the name of the platform.  Very peculiar it would seem. 

Notice Marco, on his blog at www.marcocardinale.blogspot.com,  pitches his book right away.  I am sure it is a good book, but like Lloyd said, probably just the same old stuff recycled over and over on vibration.  Anyway, Marco seems to be a salesman himself shamelessly pitching his book right away on his site.  Additionally, if you go back to the work Marco first did on vibration and read some of the comments he and Bosco made on vibration in a coaching journal, they were saying without a doubt about hormonal influences and VJ etc.

Bosco was apparently dying when Cardinale and Bosco wrote a review on vibration for the American College of Sports Medicine Exercise and Sport Sciences Reviews published in 2003.  I actually had a scientist tell me on the phone a few years ago that he suspected Bosco and Cardinale may have manipulated the data on some of their work by tossing out subjects to reach statistical significance.  Anyway, do not kid yourselves.  These scientists in exercise and sport science have their hands out for gifted equipment, book deals, speaking engagements, etc.  They are marketers and salesmen as much or more as they are actually searching for the truth. 

John T. Weatherly

Does it rhyme with (an) Hour Late? ;-)

The problem with the blog and abstracts is they are advertising for the full article. Some of us don’t want to subscribe for the full article and don’t need it – it won’t tell us anything we don’t already know. 

The study is yet another doomed to failure (or to less beneficial results than could have reasonably been expected) because the equipment used wasn’t working to specs.  Why do academics accept equipment that doesn’t work to specs? Because it is gifted to them, that’s why! At least now they are checking the equipment; so many older studies were totally based on machine specs, listed as absolutes, when they were flawed.

I asked my son, an academic (not in NZ) who is also very hands on and practical, if he would test equipment gifted to him for research (in a very different field but related to humans). He said, No, of course not  – he would believe what the supplier said.  He said they only have a limited amount of money to buy their own equipment so they accept gifts.  Academic failure, in my opinion!

Why don’t academics simply say – ( x brandname) machines don’t work to the specs supplied, in the short text, so we all know? 

The opposite to the study’s results can be true – we have a NZ strength athlete who has, again, won some top events in her chosen sport.  She combines regular training with vibration training sessions 3x week on high energy lineal machines. She wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t making a difference, would she?

(Mike M – the brand is well known but I’ll wait until someone reads the full article and tells us from there, direct wording)

So what make/model was it anyway? I can't seem to find it on the website anywhere...

I have been directed to this forum by a colleague as it seems that someone is making defamatory claims on myself and my work. 

If you do not agree with what I write or publish you can decide to ignore my work or write a letter to the editor of the scientific journals to discuss and criticise on scientific terms why you disagree with something.

However, before you do so, I strongly suggest you actually read the papers. As it seems clear that you do not do that.

In fact in the last two comments you are hinting that I have not indicated the name of the manufacturer of the platform used. If you had read the methods section you would have found all the details you ne.eded. So you clearly do not read papers accurately and make claims that are untrue. Also, in my recent review on international journal of sports physiology and performance I have indicated all equipment and parameters used in studies with athletes as appearead in the literature. So your claims are totally untrue.

As I mentioned previous times in many places I have no financial involvement or gain from manufactures of vibrating devices. 

I would really appreciate if you tone down your defamatory statements as they are utterly inappropriate and do not reflect the truth. If you do not like the work of somebody there is no need to write defamatory remarks and offend.

If you think you have a good idea and scientific proof you can submit your case to a scientific journal and get peer review just like everyone else does rather than telling everyone they are wrong and you are the only one right. 

A little humour for Monday morning – New Zealand’s dumbest criminal

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767535

Lloyd,

         This is exactly why you need to produce a home machine we the public can trust to do the job!!

I respect your Studio systems but they are not in every country/city/town and are unavailable to 99% of the worlds population.

You say you came out of the Mortuary to help people live longer and you believe in “ethics and responsibility” then it is time to really help the rest of the world and produce home machines that are true to specs, reliable and reasonably affordable.As far as i can see, people are paying up to £10k already for home machines that are not even up to their own specs!

The time has definitely come to rethink your strategy and help the masses!!  

Dr. Marco Cardinale has an interesting new article at www.marcocardinale.blogspot.com about an Italian WBV study that mentions limitations of a commercially available WBV platform used in the study but they do not mention the name of the platform.

John T. Weatherly

Great article, very true. 

http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/why-do-people-open-a-vibration-training-studio

update on Wave, Sandy emailed me today to let me know the part did not ship until today...but it should be here on Monday.

Perhaps I will be back to training by the end of next week...just dont know how the Thanksgiving holiday will play into getting the repair guy out.

Well, I think Wave is in fact reading this forum. Sandy French called me before the lunch time cutoff I had mentioned in my last post. He told me that he had found out that he had in fact shipped my part to the wrong place - Utah. He said he also called my repairman….I don’t think he actually remembered talking to the guy when the day he was at my house to do the repair. So I assume he had to find out what they had discussed. Sandy said he would send out another part - an full electronic unit including the drive motor- immediately (that was Monday)…so it should be in Tennessee by next week. I asked him if this part did not fix my machine if Wave would send me a new one. He said he would have to discuss that with the new owner. He said Wave was sold this past April to a new owner.

He then called back on Tuesday to let me know that they did not get to ship my part on Monday due to some problem with the company credit card (he did not go into detail). He said he just wanted to keep me informed. He definitely had a different attitude about customer service! So…hopefully the part will arrive soon, perhaps we can have it running again before the Thanksgiving holiday when we have a houseful of guests. It has been embarrassing when friends and family ask to try my machine out…and I have to tell them that it is broken. Many of them thought I was crazy to invest in this type of machine. I am hoping to prove them wrong.

Sorry to upset those of you with a Wave that is working. I agree that a company should not be black listed based on one failure. Machines fail, but it is the companies response to correcting failures or complaints that will make or break the company. I truly hope that the part being sent will fix mine. I really liked using my machine, but after using a $5000+ machine less than 20 times, I would not have expected it to fail. If the customer service had been up to par, my machine should have been up and running within ten days, not two months. Perhaps this will be a wake up call to Wave if they are in fact reading this forum. Based on my repair experience, I would definitely not recommend the Wave in a commercial setting. A breakdown would be a significant set back when it takes months to get it service. I don’t think Wave is prepared to handle repairs on their machines in the U.S. On my first call to Wave, I was told the closed authorized repair person was in Texas.

Once my machine is fixed, I will be writing a letter to the new owner asking for an extension of 2 months on my warranty to offset the time I have not been able to use my machine. We shall see how he responds.

Diane - thank you for your comments. I bought my machine because of all the information and reviews on the internet. I still believe vibration training is a great thing…if it can help with other more significant health issues like yours…that is fantastic.

Hoping to be back on track soon with my workouts!

No company would be “blacklisted” on the basis of one complaint. There’s always more going on than what is apparent on this single forum.

But the simple act of buying a product (not a cheap one by any measure) and expecting it to perform to specs – to actually turn on and vibrate in Patty’s case, is not “over the top” in any way.  

When a company knows it is being discussed on an internet forum they are usually very fast to fix any problem.  

That’s what’s hard to understand – a Wave representative doesn’t even come onto this forum to let people know what’s going on – remember a good review is like a whisper but a bad review resonates like thunder.

I really cant see blacklisting a company based on one persons experience. I am very happy with the product and service. I had questions and they were answered. The machine works great. There are som many products that I have purchased in the past and saw one or two bad reviews. Bottom line is some people are very hard to please. Not saying this is the case Patty with you.

Patty

Please keep us fully informed about how your machine repair is progressing.  Call up Wave (Sandy French) every day until you get results.  I believe you should be sent a new machine – in New Zealand the “Sale of Goods” laws would require this. There is provision for an item to be repaired but if that isn’t successful fairly quickly you can ask for a replacement – I’m sure you will have similar laws, just don’t let this drag on or you run out of time for this demand – here it’s 3 months.

Hi Patty,

I purchased an AirReflex from WAVE and I have never had any issues with it whatsoever. I use it for theraputic purposes, it has litterally saved my life. I couldn`t wake up in the morning, I was going into a deep depression. I have Fibromyalgia, I used to suffer, words cannot describe the pain I had every day. Since I bought my machine two years ago, I feel like a new woman, it has saved my life.

Sandy French was so helpful, I called when my machine arrived and he was one the phone with me for almost an hour. I was walked through setting up the machine initially, he was a great help. I have full confidence that WAVE will help resolve your issue, I would recommend it to anyone.

Diane

Shelley

You will do better advertising your machine on ebay or gumtree. We don’t generally facilitate re-sale of machines but maybe someone will see your post and reply here.

Hi all,

I have a Hypervibe that I would like to sell. Im moving interstate and its just one of those things that shouldnt be put aside. Ive had terrific results with it, and love it  but it wont fit in the motor home.

Its in Perth, Australia so only available by pick up.

Make an offer.

Thanks, Shelley.

Patty

Yes I did get the new mat. It lacks the dents the first one still has, but it was not in perfect shape either. I give up on having one that's fully clean/no defects to start out, I guess that's a lost cause. Guess I'm ahead of the game just having two of them.

I really hate it that you are having to deal with a person who appears to be either incompetent, senile, or extremely careless. I did notice that the shipping bill on my mat was signed by your Mr. French. I hope getting my mat to the right address did not overtax him too much.

Not sure if blacklisting is warranted at this point. After all, MikeP and I are both really enjoying our machines. Hate it that you are not. Maybe you should try to email Jasper Sidhu? I would post his email on here for you, but that would likely be a bad idea on a public forum; perhaps if there's an email for you somewhere in the older messages then someone can send it to you. I get the feeling somehow that he will help you out; I think he did me in my case.

Here lately I am having a real hard time completing a full two minute Super Squat. It just keeps getting harder. Either I have gotten stronger there or weaker, not sure which...

I apologize for the lack of update on my Wave Air Reflex machine. I had to go out of town to clean out my dad’s house and get him moved to Tennessee to live with us. So I have had much bigger fish to fry than tending to my Wave issue.

I got back in town last week and then called Wave - Sandy French on Friday morning. Unbelievable, but I don’t think he even remembered who I was. Weird, since he had left me a phone message at work, checking in to see how my machine was working! He pulled out his “notes” and then asked if the part he sent fixed my machine. I never received the second part…so I asked when it was delivered (thinking that perhaps the postal service might be holding it since we had been out of town)….he asked me to hold a minute, then when he came back on the phone he told me the date…and it was the date the FIRST part had arrived at my house. I told him that part had been installed (a new screen) but it did not fix my Wave and that he had talked to the repairman that day…and he was supposed to send me another part . Sandy could not even remember talking to the guy that came to my house to do the repair or which part he was supposed to send to me. Then he seemed to be shuffling some papers, and said…that’s what happens when I don’t get my notes into the computer. I couldn’t believe it. The guy is either overwhelmed by a lot of warranty issues on the Waves or he is an absolute idiot. I told him I did not know which part he was supposed to send, but it should have been at my house already. I told him if he couldn’t get my Wave fixed they needed to send me a new machine. He asked me to hold a minute and then he proceeded to tell me that the part had been shipped to UTAH…that he must have sent it to the wrong repair place. He said he would have to call them and find out what they did with the part. I told him to call me back before the end of the day to let me know when the part would be arriving…and again mentioned that a new machine might be a better option. He never called back. If I don’t hear from him on Monday morning before lunch, I am going to call and ask to talk to a manager or owner of Wave. Warranty customer service at Wave is ridiculous. If I were using the machine commercially, I would be out of business. If I could send the machine back for full credit, I would do so. Even if they get my machine fixed, I am afraid of having future failures, which means months not being able to use the machine. I am not even sure that the guy that came out to repair my machine is qualified to fix it. My husband said he looked like a body builder.

At this point, based on my experience with Wave, I would suggest they be blacklisted - they are not prepared to handle warranty issues in the United States. They have not even thought through how to find people who can work on them. Their warranty staff is incompetent.

I remain disgusted with WAVE in Tennessee.

Mike M - I hope you are having much better luck than me with your Wave…did you ever get your replacement mat?

Hey guys ... No  I have reworded my Services advert to state that it is not a commercial grade Vibration Trainer but it is going to be used in order to make normal workouts harder and to be used for balance and rehab work.

It really makes the amrs and legs work hard on the high speed settings though.  WOWwhat a difference  Ican do 100150 pushups and managed a sset fo 40 on the highest speed setting today maximum.

I like the machine and have already had 2 clients use it and they both loved it.  We exercised on it using the push ups and the squats and Idemonstrated pistol squats on it as well.  Would love to be able to afford to come up to Auckland and also love to be bale to buy a PROPERmachine but in the mean time this will serve my clients well enough for the training they are doing.

Mike M

You asked “Anyone ever do more than one 2-minute Super Squat in a given workout?”

Some people do 2 minutes of some of the IVTRB Safety Program or do the advanced program, only possible on a machine with side vibrating handlebars, so extra Super Squats are rare.

But, you can do more on your machine if you are mastering the program well.  

Just so you know – Lloyd Shaw does ONLY the 10 minute program seen in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PikfQv7uwwo

He trains smart.

Mike M

My husband can do a 5 minute SuperSquat on a level 3 machine – perfect form.

DO NOT TRY IT!

He is a distance runner. He has strong legs and a slim body.  He has no mass to be holding up. He’s been doing vibration for 5 years (not always regularly).  He’s done the 5 minute squat about 5 or 6 times and he literally crawls off the machine and sits down for half an hour after.  I’ve told him not to try it again – there is cardio stress when you go that hard and he’s over 50. It’s not really smart.

FORM IS WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN HOW LONG YOU CAN DO ANY POSITION

We all want to go harder but poor form means 40 – 50 incorrect movements per second – that’s not going to help anyone gain muscle strength. There is ZERO room for error when you go really hard out on a vibration machine.  Perfect your form, Perfect Position, Feet perfectly flat, hip (bones) width apart, 110 degree back of knee angle and maintain that.  The general rule is that if you haven’t corrected in the last 10 seconds you are out of position.