Questions and discussion forum

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Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-27 17:30:17
Tammy...
 
No comparison. Wave wins hands down on performance and ergonomics. 
 
But contact this guy on how the company is doing. http://www.vibrationexercise.com/
 
Tammy Posted On:2012-11-27 16:34:14

 

Lloyd,

Another question from a very grateful consumer who has been able to learn TONS from this site:  

From a strictly training point of view, which do you think would be better - a Wave Contour Plus or a Vitality 1200 "Jet Vibe"?  

I am leaning towards the Wave simply because it is new and under warranty whereas the Vitality 1200 is used and without local support.

Thanks again for all your help!
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-27 15:15:21
" but our group of students got this and other papers from Jackie."
 
But Jackie did not know what website the paper was on. You are taking advice from someone lacking basic comprehension skills.  That is not a good idea.
 
Note:
 
The info on that paper was a small sample of what was recorded.  The data that was mined is massive.  ( 3000 comments over 54 topic over a 3 year span )
 
It included some of the following.....
 
Consumer Engagement
Medical conditions discussed
Sales
After sales support.
Warranty issues ( we managed to get someone a refund for an entire studio ) .
Support in setting up studios globally
Shipping and tax issues. 
Logistics
Noise and vibration issues solved.
Consumer protection ( fake equipment and exposing fraudulent companies )
Financial transactions
Insurance issues
Arrangement of trainers sent overseas to help launch studios
Con artists exposed and put out of business in a number of countries ( we even managed to track one guy down and get him arrested )
 
Entire conversations were recorded that went from initial basic consumer questions and contact, all the way through to setting up a business. All done openly online. 
 
And we even managed to attract academics,  scientists, Doctors and Physios to engage us online. ( it is actually how Dr Marco Cardinale found out Power Plate was using his name on their fake medical advisory board )
 
 
Quite simply I proved we can influence an entire industry with enough dedication. The website you are on now, is just a tidier version of that basic idea. Still years away from completion. But by the time I have finished , a full library on info will be available and all online enquiries will lead to our work.   
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-27 13:03:05

Why be sorry for me. 

Not many peoples work gets mentioned in research papers. Let alone gets introduced in a ciriculum at University level. They have gotten me to lecture there a number of times now. And a book based  on that work is apparently going to be released.

Maybe you should be sorry for those who will never do anything worth writing about.  

 
.com Posted On:2012-11-27 08:46:43

I'm sorry for you, but our group of students got this and other papers from Jackie.
And we know that you have the control over this forum. ;o)

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-27 00:15:37
Thankyou .com
 
But I do not think Jackie will read that paper. Or even understand what that experiment was all about.
 
But here are a few points...
 
(1) We took that website to #1 in every country on Google. Without the help of dodgy SEOs or other ranking tricks. Just good old fashioned hard work answering thousands of questions. Day after day. For free. 
 
And we never had to lie or deceive anyone. Even once.
   
 
(2) It was destroyed by a marketer who objected to warranty issues being openly discussed ( surprise, surprise ). The comments were censored, so we abandoned the site. 
 
  
 
 
The amusing thing is. Jackie Lee is only getting to have her say because of my ethics. She is on my site, and I have complete control of the forum. If she was on any other site, run by any of the companies she "respects"  she would have had every comment censored, and ISP banned, just for having an opposing opinion.     
 
.com Posted On:2012-11-26 22:38:26

http://staff.business.auckland.ac.nz/DesktopModules/StaffProfiles/Publications/8857.pdf

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-11-26 21:35:07

 

A researcher who makes assumptions instead of asking questions

 

Then gets it wrong - we’re seen this all before

 

A researcher who choses not to meet and personally interview the foremost person in New Zealand, in the industry they are researching

 

Says it all, doesn’t it!

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-26 21:17:35
Jackie Lee... 
 
 ( no questions, just comments. As asking you questions is a futile waste of our time. You dodge them like a snake ) 
 
 
(1) " Only 6 members create the bulk of the conversation "
 
They were not discussing this forum or website. Cant you read ??
   
 
(2)   " People, who are eager to talk to all competitors bad "
 
 
Really ?  Did you do any actual research on this statement. Or did you just pull that out of thin air. I have written multiple positive reviews and given sales to "decent and honest" companies over the years.
 
Now you either don't know that, because you cant use the internet properly. Or you cant comprehend my actions, so your brain has shut down. 
   
 
 
(3)    Don’t you think that every New Zealander is mature enough to make his own decisions?
 
Not when they are being lied to by very dishonest crafty people. That is how scammers work. They pray on the ill educated.
 
 
I suspect you are one of those people.   
 
Hint; Start with researching the word research. 
 
 
(4)  " You are so proud that there are no studios here in New Zealand "
 
You mean all the dishonest people are gone. Too right I am. I want to be a part of an industry I am proud of, not ashamed of. 
 
It is no different to when the car import industry found some salespeople were winding odometers back. They were tossed out and blacklisted. And it made the industry better and improved consumer confidence.
 
 
(5) " why are there so few Vibra-Train Studios? "
 
Have you heard of such a thing as organic growth. As opposed to an artificial tipping point.  Too many players in the market were not a good thing. Because most were not up to the challenge of creating an industry and surviving the recession at the same time.    
   
Rome was not built in a day Jackie.
 
 
(6)  And when the machines in the other studios are broken again and again and/or the training does not bring success, people will probably go to Vibra-Train 
 
 
Yes they will. I predicted they would, and it is inevitable. But that is not exactly my fault is it. I did warn them not to compromise on quality. But greed stopped them from listening 
 
And it does not help the customers who in the mean time are charged outlandish sums to use sub standard equipment that can not get the results promised. Or get ripped of when a studio closes with no warning. 
 
 
 
(7)   You say that the studio owner and personal trainer of all your competitors are just greedy for the money of the customers - how do you know that?
 
No there were some genuine cases of people being scammed. But most knew or soon found out something was not right with the companies they had chosen to deal with. At that point most honest people would stop dealing with them. After all they had other options.
 
But the fact is, a lot of owners and trainers "sold out" our industry in the hopes of easy money.
 
 
If you know of any that feel hard done by. I will happily give them a few simple questions to answer. And if they don't lie, I will change my mind. But in my experience to date. That is highly unlikely .
 
Jackie Lee Posted On:2012-11-26 19:25:37

Lloyd, it is pointless to discuss with you. In your mind you are THE God of vibration training - worldwide. I did a lot of research - even in this forum. I read your posts on your website and I was amused how you evaluated the article from Auckland Business University. The article was exclusively about the users and the dynamic of this forum here and I found the summary of the authors very amusing the forum is just too insignificant. Only 6 members create the bulk of the conversation, today it seems to me that there are 3 left only. In my work I am researching on the spot: in gyms, in spas, at Vibra-Train, at Power Plate, in hotels, in restaurants. Initially I was also very keen to meet with you personally, but after watching some of your videos that interest is extinguished.

You asked me why studios in other countries (in which you have no control) had to close. Why have restaurants, shops, gyms to close sometimes? Why do companies go bankrupt? Usually there are a few points: too many fixed costs, too many bad managers, not enough demand, too little and poor marketing. And if there is inadequate equipment t, then it goes downhill pretty fast. Two things are important: passion for the business and a good business plan. And it also takes a little luck. And what it needs the very least: people like you. People, who are eager to talk to all competitors bad. If only all the poor competitors in your country (and overseas) were forced to close their studios, you've got won. So what do you want? You're making a big mistake: If you call all customers stupid, who believe in vibration training, but not train in a Vibra-Train studio, you harm the industry. Don’t you think that every New Zealander is mature enough to make his own decisions? And when the machines in the other studios are broken again and again and/or the training does not bring success, people will probably go to Vibra-Train. You say that the studio owner and personal trainer of all your competitors are just greedy for the money of the customers - how do you know that? You are so proud that there are no studios here in New Zealand because all were forced to close due to loss of material and greed. Which owners and personal trainers do you have in mind? Why didn’t you used your chance in the last few years and have benefited from the demise of the others - why are there so few Vibra-Train Studios? From your concept, there is space in New Zealand for 45 Studios, why are there only 15? Maybe you'll be surprised, but I have approved 2 of the 3 business loan applications, which I got. But unfortunately in the end, no candidate could open a Vibration Training studio. It did not fail to passion or money, maybe you know the reason.

I finished my research for vibration training now. So please don’t ask any further questions ;-)

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-11-26 15:26:29

Jackie

Lloyd has no major influence in other countries so how is it that studios that were owned by “leaders” in Vibration Training have closed their doors?   Please answer this.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-26 15:15:05
Jackie Lee.....
 
I want you to digest something. And maybe actually do some research yourself. As opposed to listening to others bemoan my actions because they have failed.  
 
 
VIBEX was a franchise system that got all the boxes ticked by all the "experts" . It even won a franchise of the year award. Was affiliated to all the right groups. They left nothing to chance.  
 
 
 
They were even backed publically by Fitness NZ. And got free plugs in national fitness magazines.(  It helped of course that the owner was a board member of Fitness NZ. who I personally find morally bankrupt and will support anyone for a  a few $$$  )  
 
Note: This is the same person who I turned down when he tried to buy a couple of studios. Because I did not trust him. 
     
 
 
What do you think was more important in the end. Having all the experts on side, or having a company leader who was honest and hard working ? Who was not going to jump on a plane at the first sign of trouble ?.
 
 
Another simple question......
 
Some of our self professed "industry leaders"  could not keep their own studios open. In their own countries where I have no influence. I ask again. HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR THAT ?
 
My guess is you wont even try to answer the question. Because the answer conflicts with your stance on the industry.       

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-26 12:54:22
Tammy...
 
Yes you will get some training results on that unit.
 
A HyperVibe is a Pivotal machine. They feel very different to a Lineal unit. So my advice would be to try both types first. These things are like buying a car. Test drive first.
 
Tammy Posted On:2012-11-26 11:00:01

Lloyd,

Thanks for the feedback on the Vitality 1200.  I have family members who would benefit from a therapy machine but I was also hoping that I would be able to train on it.  Please let me know if you think it will function as a reasonable training machine at the higher settings.  Or whether a HyperVibe or some other premium speed pivotal would be better for me for training.  

Better yet, tell me that you are in discussions with someone who plans to open a VibraTrain studio in Toronto, Canada.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-25 23:37:40
Jackie Lee...
 
There are no guarantees in business. Anybody can fail for a number of reasons....
 
 
 
But that is not the same thing as being set up to fail. As Power Plate did to people. That is why they had a 100% fail rate.  
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-25 23:33:12
Jackie Lee....
 
I tried to help other studios that had been left to fend for themselves. And guess who turned up at the meeting, but then refused to comment on broken machines. That's right. Power Plate.
 
When I cornered them on the issue. Right in front of everybody. They stormed out. That was their last chance as far as I was concerned. They are a lost cause.
 
 
Please explain how I have hurt the industry ( what by exposing some con artists ? )
 
And what you meant by this.....
 
" In this forum you complain again and again to people that others have led to bankruptcy. But on the other hand you choose people as new studio owners who have already led a company in the bankruptcy and with its many creditors  "             
 
  
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-25 23:24:30
Dear Jackie Lee ....
 
This is the email I sent to all active studios / brands on 25/6/2009. 
 
 
To whom it may concern,
                                       I wish to invite you, as members of the Vibration Training industry here in N.Z.  to an "informal" meeting at...
 
7 Pm Sun 28th June
Vibra-Trains R&D Head Studio
192 , Unit 7 . Victoria St West  ( next to Les Mills )
 
Despite any past differences everyone is welcome, as I believe working together on certain issues could bring about positive changes for everybody. Please feel free to bring your own points to discuss , no subject is off limits.
 
The fact you are receiving this invite means you are a part of the "real" industry, have not bolted just because thing have "gotten a little tough", and you believe this form of Training and Therapy will become mainstream in time.
 
The points I wish to discuss...
 
(1) Staff Training and Safety 
(2) Active Industry support
(3) Joint marketing
(4) Tackling our detractors
(5) How to differentiate the Commercial brands from the Warehouse and Trade-Me machines
(6) Health And Fitness industries perception of Vibration Training
(7) Warranty issues. 
 
As I have said I believe we all have the same frustrations at times and common ground should be found so we can move in one direction on some of these issues. 
Note: I will be the only person there representing my company, so it will be just a small group of the decision makers ( though you are welcome to bring your staff if you wish )  
 
 
RSVP  to this E-Mail address.
 
 
                                    Kind regards  Lloyd Shaw     09 309 6874     
 
Jackie Lee Posted On:2012-11-25 20:35:14

I see that you are and will remain incorrigible. From my perspective, you harm the "industry" more than any other.
And something else: In this forum you complain again and again to people that others have led to bankruptcy. But on the other hand you choose people as new studio owners who have already led a company in the bankruptcy and with its many creditors.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-25 20:20:20
Tammy....
 
That is actually a medical / therapy based machine. Quite good quality. And yes on its higher settings it would be considered a Medium Energy Lineal unit.  
 
Tammy Posted On:2012-11-25 19:51:42

Thank you Lloyd for a wonderful website.  I also found your instructional videos to be really helpful.

I have an opportunity to both try and buy a used Vitality 1200 "Jet Vibe."  I see that Vitality4life is on the black list but I am wondering if you or any of the members of this forum have any thoughts about this particular machine which I believe is a medium energy lineal.  

Thanks so much.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-25 19:23:40
Jackie Lee...
 
(a) We have just had our busiest year ever. And NZ has more people doing this form of training per capita than anywhere else in the world.
 
 
In Europe. Where it should be massive. It is a joke. 
  
 
(b)  If the marketers had kept out of our industry while it developed. None of the fake machines or fad training programs would have been released. It was the people who tried to make this a fad that you should have an issue with. Not me..
 
 
(c)  I have openly helped my "honest" competition and any company trying to move this technology forward. Even giving away sales.  And I still do. So I do not understand your comment.
 
 
(d  I fully understood from day one what kind of process we had to endure before this industry goes to the next level.
 
     (1)  We had to prove it was safe and effective.(  I estimated this would take 10 years ). You must already know we had zero friends in the fitness or health sector when we started.  And those who felt threatened by us used any method to scare people off even trying Vibration Training.
 
And then companies like Power Plate started their own scare tactic marketing. Actually telling people EVERY other machine built but theirs could hurt you. How do you think that effected the first phase ?
 
  
     (2)   Research and reputation would prove how effective Vibration Training is for a host of issues. But again fake machines sent to researchers and "fake experts" have cost us dearly.
 
 
 
    (3)   Finally Vibration Training will just be accepted as another form of exercise. And we will get to not only be very profitable, but possibly save entire economies from the obesity and aging crisis. 
 
 
 
This is an unfortunate fact. For this industry to become mature and well respected. Every single person who has brought our industry into disrepute needs to be closed up and banned from our industry. So they can never do us damage again.
 
Because I can guarantee. As soon as we near the end phase. They will be back from their " wealth creation" seminars like some form of cancer.
 
Jackie Lee Posted On:2012-11-25 17:49:45

Mike, do we speak about your first years around 2008 – during the vibration training hype here in New Zealand? Unfortunately the number of people who do vibration training has decreased by the years, because with the bad management and closure of more than 18 studios in New Zealand there were too less studios around. And during the last years (and ongoing) only Vibra-Train and a few Gyms have offered vibration training to the customers.  And so a great strength training tool is nearly unknown in our country. That’s a shame! And so I think it is nearly impossible to be so successful again with a vibration training studio (Gyms have the same problem – less and less customers, more and more closures worldwide). I had three business loan applications for a vibration studio on my desk in the last 7 months. And I learned that a realistic number is an income of $150 to $400 per 10h/day (15 to 40 customers – depends from the studio location). In the “books” I have seen that the business owners could be happy if the earn $50 on same days.

Apart from the numbers I think we gain a really problem here: If people eat more and more and move less and less then New Zealand will have an enormous number of overweight people with a metabolic syndrome in 2020. So maybe it’s time to wake them up and do a little bit “marketing”. I know Lloyd (and his followers) hates all the marketing people. But to teach people the benefits of training you have to think outside the box. Luckily the Vibra-Train machines are strong enough to hold overweight people. But has it to come to that? Do we really want to spend our tax for the treatment of preventable diseases only? So Lloyd, jump over your shadow and stop hacking at your competitors. Be better than this and do something for the community. Inform people about all the benefits, create a new vibration training hype and convince the couch-potatoes to leave their sofas!

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-24 15:50:31
Mike, the bean counters do not create industries.
 
They are just consumers of other peoples ideas, risks and efforts like most people.  But similar to academics who pretend to be experts. The fact is they just get to report on things after all the hard work is done.
 
I always find "advice experts "are like dealing with a GP. They think they are smart, and other people think they are smart. Until it is pointed out to them that all a GP does is to match and ailment with a drug. They are not smart enough to ever design the drug.
 
MikeHair Posted On:2012-11-24 07:35:19

Jackie

 

In our first two years we were constantly seeing 80 to 90 people a day 5 days a week, Our origanal price was 12 dollars a session.

The hours we put in is something committed passionate business owners do. Thought thats what successful business owners do any way.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-21 14:37:33
Gillian    

Please can someone tell me how you work out what is low speed and what is medium spread. I've got a Crazy fit Medicarn vibration plate plus 1500w. It goes up to a speed of 99. So would low be between 20 and 40 and medium be 50

 
 
The Crazy Fit units tend to have an actual top Fq of approx 12  hz.
 
My advice is keep it really slow  (  speed setting of 10   ) for all upper body stuff and abs. Can be dangerously uncontrollable until you really get used to it. 
 
And 50 + for leg work. ( of course as long as its all about control and form )
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-21 14:28:13
 " Personally I will stay involved in some way with Vibra-Train at least initially as a client. Why? Because I believe in it and it works."
 
 
 Unlike the other "hangers on" we were up against.
 
eg....
 
Power Plate
Vibra-Gym
Nemes
Vibex
Elite-Fitness/Rocket Fitness
Peak-Vibe ( Peak Pilates )
 
 
 
As soon as it stopped making money for them. They stopped pretending they loved Vibration Training on mass.  Who could have predicted and seen past their BS.
 
Oh yea. It was me  !!!  
 
Wayne Posted On:2012-11-21 09:23:22

Jackie Lee, you ask

“Di, if there is no way to buy a Vibra-Train Studio, why has Wayne been trying to sell his studio on Trade Me (I know, listing 527913560 was removed a few hours ago)? http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pet6uyf5VrYJ:www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/businesses-for-sale/other/auction-527913560.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=de

The business has been sold – therefore the listing has been taken down. We have had the studio for 8 years and have built a very solid customer base and have become the dominant force in our territory. The client numbers are continuing to grow, and we are continually getting clients back that started with us many years ago and for various reasons stopped coming. More and more, the new clients are well aware of Vibra-Train before they come in. This was not the case at the beginning. The Vibra-Train name has become synonymous with this industry. Why? The technology, the service, the results, the reliability of the machines (Very little required maintenance over 8 years and still going strong) and customer satisfaction. Sorry your experience at our studio was not what you were looking for however you can’t please all of the people all of the time. Our approval rating from our recent Groupon deal was 99% positive.

 

The reason we have sold the studio was not financial or in any way reflective of any dissatisfaction with Lloyd Shaw and Vibra-Trains philosophies and direction that we support wholeheartedly. We are confident that our studio will continue to grow and flourish from the injection of the new and motivated owners.

 

We have other  reasons for selling.

 

Personally I will stay involved in some way with Vibra-Train at least initially as a client. Why? Because I believe in it and it works.   

 

 Wayne Campbell

(Currently) Director – Vibra-Train Albany 


 

 
John Posted On:2012-11-21 06:26:50

I love the idea of an "anti-gym movement" and "punishing the bad guys."

John T. Weatherly

 
Gillian Posted On:2012-11-21 00:43:01

Please can someone tell me how you work out what is low speed and what is medium spread. I've got a Crazy fit Medicarn vibration plate plus 1500w. It goes up to a speed of 99. So would low be between 20 and 40 and medium be 50

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-11-20 01:59:23
I simply do not respect the fitness industry experts and magazines and believe the exercise myths they promote are useless in fighting obesity. At best straight out lies.  This is why gyms are not allowed my equipment. Most trainers are  deemed far too stupid to know how you use one. ( you cant always teach a  monkey new tricks )
 
We are the anti- gym  industry.   
 
My marketing plan ?
 
You should read the study and subsequent paper on the " online consumer engagement "  experiment I started in 2006. It is up for an IBM award..
 
 http://www.business.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/about/news-and-media/news/news/template/news_item.jsp?cid=482958 ( a book by Auckland Business Uni should be released soon on the case study. )
 
If fact Auckland Business Uni has a copy of my original business plan. Word for word. So they can track and study my predictions. 
 
When I said I would liquidate PP NZ in 2007 to make them pay for their dishonest behavior. They debated if that could actually be done.. After I had completed the liquidation process and was successful, and helped broker a deal on a public open forum, to set up an independent studio in the UK that had been ripped of by another company. They started to take my methods seriously. 
 
 
My aim is simple. To bypass traditional media and directly engage the consumer on an intellectual level. As I am very good at articulating my ideas, that is the easy part. Then you have to tell them our very industry is at risk by some very dishonest people, and get them to strip these evil people from the only thing they love. Money.
 
 
It is a double whammy for us, People not only go with us, because they know some of their money goes to people who need this technology for medical reasons.  And they get to punish the bad guys.
 
Win Win. .     
 
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