Lloyd

Mike M.

Hi Franco

I am curious if any of the platforms you looked at included the current Wave models? Also, having been a pro basketball player, did you see vibration used with the pro team(s) you were a part of, and what machine(s) were they if you did? What kind of uses have you seen the technology used for in pro sports? With what kind of results? I'm sure I'm not the only one here curious about this type of thing.

Thanks Mike! 

I believe you said the right word, passion. I know you guys are very passionate about vibration training and this is what made me decide to join this community. I hope I will share success stories very soon, anyways I already consider a success being able to do what I like to make a living, and contribute to the diffusion of this great, great form of training... 

Hi Franco, Congratulations on your decision to start your own studio.

You sound very passionate about vibration training which will stand you in good stead to succeed in this industry.

We look forward to here of your success stories.

Mike

Hi all! My name is Franco, I'm from Italy, I'm 39 and I was a professional basketball player. In 2006 I was invited to participate to a VibroGym workshop, where they presented the machines to the italian market, and then took the course to become an instructor. For me it has been love at first sight, I appreciated this new form of workout right away. I had several knee injuries during my career that forced me to quit the game in 2005, and ever since it was very hard for me to train in the traditional way. With vibration training though, I had the chance to work on my muscles without stressing the joints and keep a good tone, especially in my legs.

I could put the argument even simpler. They make lots of hammers out of different materials, but if you notice, no one ever makes the hammer head out of a lightweight material (such as plastic), even though it would no doubt be a cheaper alternative. And if you want to drive into a super dense material, the heaviest head is usually the choice.

Not saying the human body is a dense material (usually) but it would be easier to take a strong force driven with a heavy head (platform) and damp it down than it would be to do the reverse. Just IMO.

Yes I asked around a bit and got directed to the study where they used some obscure Italian platform (TSEM S.p.A., Padova-Italy) that I can't seem to find out much about, but it appears to be a lineal(!), and it looks like maybe it's the one that they use to quote that 27Hz=optimal. On lineal? Really? I was on a Wave at 30 to 50 Hz and I would have said 30 was weak at best. In the 40s was where the action was. So that, (ironically) makes me feel a bit more confident in my platform selection, for some reason...

Well I for one am glad I did not buy a Power Plate. It was a near thing, I must admit. I saw on Craigslist a used Power Plate My5 for $1200 a few weeks before I ordered the Wave. But with what I was reading here and elsewhere, I could not in all good conscience buy something like that. And you never know with used equipment, it could be buying someone else's headache.

Enjoyed the Power Plate Scammers Part 2 article.  This is what Lloyd and our community can accomplish on a global scale.  Name, shame, and put these con artists out of business.

John Weatherly

Thanks Lloyd, I did. I am kind of confused/perturbed in that the chart(s) do not present any proof of their claims, which to me smacks more of a marketing claim than anything else. Where's the math or equations or formulae backing any of that up?

That said, I have felt that the effect is not too different than what the charts claim, so I kind of believe the claimed effect to a degree - on the joints. It's pretty obvious that a box jump, for example, is a lot harder on the joints than standing on a vibration platform.

So how is it that that Sasha guy is claiming 20G for one of the Galileo platforms, when Galileo's own chart is claiming around the 1G range on the leg and around 2G on the knee? Is he still talking about forces on the joint, or is he now talking the induced force within the muscle? Where is the math supporting any of these claims? How do you measure forces that are induced anyway, if the external (G) forces have such a small amount to do with it, as appears may be true?

Mike M

Our Wave has not shipped, Rochelle said four weeks, so hopefully it will be on its way before the 8th of July. We had decided if they didn’t come off the $5000 sales price, we would go with a different unit. But fortunately we were able to get the same price they offered you and the other Mike. We were told that we were the last customers the lower price would be offered to, due to the high shipping costs. I see now that their sale price is at $5,500, so I am glad we took the leap and bought ours. You are ahead of me on fully understanding the technology…but I am interested in learning more…so the question / answer series you have going here is great.

Lloyd

Want to be sure I understand you - when you say “strict program” - do you mean “standard program” …that is my husband should do the full standard safety program, aiming for 60 second poses at 43 hz on low - this would be considered the “softer positions”? Just a reminder, he does have a few bolts and screws in his back (from a surgery he had four years ago) - will this make any difference or is there any pose he should omit? I am thinking we can use a stationary walker set over the base of the Wave for him to hold on to.

He has high arches and weak ankles - any special instructions to deal with this?

I am looking forward to your future article on variation of frequency during training -hopefully we will be ready to make use of it when it comes out. Thanks again for your input.

Mike M

It’s easy to get bogged down unless you keep in mind your desired training results. You have to also consider the motion – lineal, pivotal, and even the so called 3D (tri-planar), even rotation – think of an auto accident where rotation is involved; it’s serious (over 2g even).

Peak to peak, pivotal platforms rate higher but the motion is so different to lineal and to get a depth of muscle contraction (rather than a big shake like you see on the YouTube videos) you have to up the fq and so decrease the peak.  Think about this – walking downstairs can produce over 8g but the rate of change acceleration is 2g or less.  In lineal systems the direction of force and amplitude has to be controlled to give safe, effective training. Pivotal is more forgiving but even then I’ve felt very “seasick” on a large Chinese manufactured machine.

Patty, I wish you the best of luck with the Air Reflex. What price did they wind up giving you for it, if I may ask? And they still have not shipped it? I guess they must have had quite a few sales due to the spring specials they put on, then. Good show; maybe some more Wave owners will start posting somewhere on the internet.

As for me, I would like to see some discussion of the math behind all of this. Equations and that sort of thing. Can anyone here enlighten me? I can see that there would be greater than one G accelerations for one of these platforms, because the platform "kicks" you into the air slightly, and when you're then dropping back down (at earth's one G) it then "kicks" you up again, meeting you on the way down, thus exceeding one G. I have a little trouble picturing how one might get to 16G like that, but maybe I can get there if anyone can help me out a bit with an equation. While we're at it, can I see math to tell me what acceleration one might experience from, let's say, a 3 foot box jump? bounding 2 feet up and down on a mini trampoline? Running up or down hill? Is there a website that explains such things?

Hi

First thanks to one and all for the responses to my last post

I have been trying out the HP Pivotal machine (I am quite impressed so far ),. One of the poses they promote is a one foot lunge with placing the foot in the centre of the plate. Galileo directed the foot should be slightly to one side. I initially thought the central  position would be to gentle due to the amplitude, however the result was the  muscles had a harder workout. My theory for what it’s worth is the that you double the frequency by both sides of the plate influencing the foot, but with a reduced amplitude, therefore giving the muscles a totally different mode of training..

Am I on the right lines with my reasoning

Kevin A

Lloyd,

I am anxiously awaiting shipment of my Wave Air Reflex.  I have been reading all the great articles you have on this site...thank you for all the sharing of your knowledge. 

I was just wondering why Wave did not make your favorite list.  I went with the Wave based on your recommendation..  I was just curious about this. 

Also, you might remember my husband has spastic paraplegia...has to use a walker for balance...he doesnt stand up straight...three back surgeries also.  Should I start him on the safety program...and at what frequency.....I saw that either you or someone said alternating frequencies is not best or needed...but the Wave is set up with the built in programs to do just that...any thoughts about this....sorry cant up in qustion marks or apostraphes.  Note  my hubby has GREAT upper body strength...just  no leg or back strength.

What I was (kind of) wondering was if slightly different frequencies would hit different muscle groups slightly differently, perhaps due to the differences in overall length of a particular muscle. For example, a typical quadriceps muscle is way longer than a typical biceps or triceps muscle. Kind of like different length guitar strings making different notes when you pluck them. Maybe I am way off on the way I am trying to picture in my head just how the energy is affecting a given muscle. But if it is actually a matter of hitting a resonant frequency, I would tend to think there'd be a difference between different length muscles. Does that make sense? Of course, maybe I am all wrong and the frequency is not all that significant after all.

43hz –commenting as a user of machines (not technical)

It’s the most comfortable setting on high energy lineal machines (steel, heavy) - gives a deep intensity of muscle contraction (it hurts, its real training) yet an overall “smooth” movement.

Lower fq feels rough and uncomfortable, it just makes me not want to use the machine. Some (below 30) fq’s feel soft but make me feel tummy sick with instant headache within 30 seconds (and I am a long time user so used to the feel of machines)

 My observations are just my perception on steel machines high energy lineal, not necessarily what the machine is really doing – for example – 30hz does give training results and good muscle contraction and a study recommends it .

Safety – matching the body fq’s – spine etc. Lineal machines only - not to cause any bad effects (and I’m not sure how valid this problem really is) the lineal machine must run at 30hz or above. Do you trust some companies on this? What if the machine was not working to specs and was actually running at 27hz (into a possibly dangerous zone).

In the studio we have a good quality, medium energy lineal machine, plastic (fibreglass) platform. At 43hz is comfortable and gives a good workout even though the muscle contraction isn’t as intense as using a high energy machine.

Because the target is the girth of the muscle and positions are static I can’t see any reason to use different fq’s on lineal machines. Maybe for massage – into “fat” cells but then you get confusion when machines are used in a commercial setting.

ON PIVOTAL MACHINES

Changing the fq is needed as there’s more body movement. A push-up is done at a lower speed than a squat. A plank position also – despite what others will tell you. I use 22hz on pivotal (on a machine that works to specs) for squats and only about 8hz for push-up. I have a shoulder injury but am strong. Remember you are moving side to side. Some will manage push-up higher.

I’ve noticed that some pivotal machine marketers suggest highest fq’s (27h usually) for advanced users. Funny thing is that this mimics a lineal platform – the type of muscle contraction is shakier (in my experience) but similar to lineal. Maybe this is “the best of both worlds” but I’ve yet to be convinced to change my training to a pivotal machine.