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Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.
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Mike M. |
Posted On:2011-12-10 13:11:46
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Hey, about that disputed study, where people supposedly did 10 1-minute exercises on a platform in one session (with the huge HGH boosts, supposedly) - were they all squats? Or something else? A mix? Anyone else ever tried to replicate that result? Anyone here ever tried it?
Seems to me, 10 1-minute squats would kind of hurt a bit...
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-12-09 21:22:53
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Was Trademark the term Vibration Training , then abandon it "due to prior use " voluntarily ( means it is too well known to be Trademarked ) . This effectively blocked it from ever being Trademarked. Even though at the time it was an unknown term to the public.
I had it under good authority Power Plate was looking to lock up the term ( because it started to take off ) and try to charge companies to use it in the future.
They were more than pissed at this move and swore to trademark new terms. Which they have claimed to on multiple occasions. Each term having TM beside it, but if you check them out. It is all hot air.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-12-09 21:03:26
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hman ......
No the term had been used before in research. But a whole lot of terms were being used with no regard for clarification as you can read on the old forum.
Eg... WBV = Whole Body Vibration . Even if the whole body was not being effected. Be it training, Physio or massage. Apparently just putting a foot on a machine was WBV
I simply wanted a term to be specific to "training" ( hard workout ) .
A classic example was Power Plate who was going to be a big influence on public perception, lumping everything in as "Vibration Therapy" I thought it sounded as though you needed to be sick to use it. They also tried to trademark Body Vibrations ??
I wanted the first Power Plate studio ( which was my idea to set up much to their confusion ) to be called Vibra-Train but have Power Plate machines. It seemed logical to promote the term "Vibration Training" and use "Vibra-Train" as a extension of that.
The rest is history.
I wanted these terms to mean something specific...
(1) Vibration Training ( static poses on machines especially engineered to train on aka.. pure vibration training on machines designed to take heavy loads and lose no function )
(2) Lineal .... A plate that tries to only move in a lineal plane.
(3) Pivotal ..... A plate that Pivots on an axis .
(4) Vibration Therapy ( the type of work you should see a Physio for .. aka injuries etc... where functional movement could be overseen in a strict environment. I did not think training , weight loss studios should be doing Physio work )
I personally feel the only reason companies had to come up with lots of different names and "protocols" was to deliberately confuse the public ( and sometimes researchers ) they achieved both very successfully. I believe in the future this opinion will be backed up by all serious vibration training industry players.
As always time will tell if I am right.
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hman |
Posted On:2011-12-09 20:12:23
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Are you saying you invented the term vibration training
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-12-09 18:54:32
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( Which was very unpopular with the industry when we started using it ) . You can see one of our academic mates giving us his opinion of it and the terms he was used to .
Also good conversation about fake specs effecting research etc..
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-12-09 14:52:59
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" Everybody that cares about honesty and ethics"
They are few and far between mate. The amount of effort needed just to get people to "do the right thing" is massive. A never ending fight. But I will always do whatever it takes.
As in this case, the ONLY way to get positive changes is to go on a full out attack. You know the history of this topic and we have been engaging the academic community directly for many years only to be stonewalled.
" if you haven't got any enemies, you are not trying hard enough "
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John |
Posted On:2011-12-09 06:07:29
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There is no way I could forget the links you provided Lloyd. And the history is all there for people to read. That is the nice thing about the net. Good job archiving the info. They cannot deny it happened or destroy the evidence. Folks, keep in mind the links Lloyd provided below show how the most successful athletic performance business, at least in the U.S., operates. Its all about money, marketing, and sales - not the truth about vibration etc.
Everybody that cares about honesty and ethics should give Lloyd a pat on the back.
John
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-12-07 22:09:42
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The whole Sports Science field needs a shake up.
My industry is going to be the first one which will be rocked. I am looking to get hundreds of research papers null and voided due to incompetence and dishonesty. 520 peer reviewed papers done so badly they are statistically invalid and impossible to reproduce.
A set of standards and protocols will be introduced using proper scientific methods.
Who would support such a movement ?
A whole new generation of researchers who do not want to be associated with the past screw ups and see massive potential for years of future grants. Grants they will not have to "sell out" for.
I suggest a good read of these forums which was a direct in your face attack on academic sell outs ........
( remember these John ? )
We have been publically fighting this issue for years. And those who supported or did their best to hide the fake spec problem will be exposed. I hope all those scientifically minded people involved in our industry will support us in any way they can.
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John |
Posted On:2011-12-07 09:09:41
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Interesting comment about the castle built on sand Lloyd. I heard from a King of a castle yesterday - Dr. William Kraemer - who is Editor in Chief of the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. The communication was personal but I will share that Dr. Kraemer has a dismal view of the field of strength and conditioning in the U.S. He even mentioned people may want to consider looking at moving to a country other than the U.S to find meaningful employment in the field.
John T. Weatherly
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-12-06 14:10:58
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Children are quite adapt to move out of physically uncomfortable situations. If your son was pushing to hard on a sensitive body part he would move.
Note; To clarify that point it is not about the vibration itself. It is how much force / body weight is is applied to the vibration. Eg... if you put a feather on the machine. It obviously receives little force and does not even move ( you can do this experiment yourself ). This shows body mass plays a part in how the vibrations are transferred.
What could happen if he pushed too hard ? Well it would be like getting kicked down there. Similar damage / reaction would be expected. Lots of crying and sore man parts.
I do not think it would be possible for your Son to put enough force behind him to cause this reaction by just leaning against it. Someone would have to push him from behind quite hard.
What would happen long term if repeated.... Well we do not let Men do the cellulite massage for safety's sake ( where you whole body weight is behind the vibration ) It is called a precautionary contra-indication. We just don't think it is a logically good idea. No research or reports to refer to, just good common sense.
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Di Heap/VibePlus |
Posted On:2011-12-05 23:23:48
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Jodie
There are times we just play it safe - when we simply can’t know what possible effect it might have. If your boy was uncomfortable he would have moved away from the machine so it appears to not be doing him any immediate harm and I doubt it can hurt him longterm either but why take any risk when Lloyd said he doesnt advise it - could he sit near you and look at a picture book or could you visit the studio with a friend or relative that can look after him while he’s in a clingy stage. Most studios have a toybox with a few playthings also.
For others reading this topic: Our studio’s are generally safe for children but parents must watch over them. They must remain where the parent can see them at all times and are never allowed to visit any kitchen or bathroom areas without an adult accompanying them. It is not the instructor’s responsibility and the instructor might even stop the session if the child is disturbing other customers. This is rare but I’ve had to talk to a few mothers about this.
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jodie |
Posted On:2011-12-05 22:34:52
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Thank you what sort of effects does this have on boys is it dangerous just leaning against the machine
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-12-05 15:05:47
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John..
The question has to be put to these academics.....
If you have built your castle on a foundation of sand, does it do any good to try and fix the castle ?
My answer is no. You fire the architects and build a whole new castle at a new location.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-12-05 14:38:41
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I would not advise the vibrations to be isolated on such a sensitive area.
Note: Children can generally climb around the machines while they are going with no detrimental effects as they produce no more energy than playing on a jungle-gym. But just like a jungle-gym where that energy goes is important.
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Jodie |
Posted On:2011-12-05 08:13:49
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Hello Lloyd I have recently started VibraTrain and take my 2 year old son with me
who just seems to love the touch of the machine, he is very clingy and wants to stand
by the machine leaning his front against it, is this ok for him as his bits are obviously
touching the machine can this be detremental to his future fertility or is there no harm in it
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John |
Posted On:2011-12-05 02:49:39
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Good point Lloyd. All I know about the large acute GH responses on the study with Galileo that used 10 sets of a minute on and off is what Dr. Marco Cardinale reported as part of his doctoral work - and nobody else has replicated it since. This is something I find quite peculiar. Marco finished his doctoral work almost 10 years ago.
John T. Weatherly
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-12-04 16:24:09
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Scott B ...
I do not want anything from them.
By trying to claim my predictions, discoveries and recommended protocols as their own and slander my work as not original. The academic community have gone too far. I will work hard to expose them as idiots and get them drummed out of our industry if possible.
They have severely underestimated the power of the internet to spread the truth and my motivation to get it known.
Note: My work is also going to make them VERY unpopular with the big name labels. Because without this provocation I had no reason to release all the info and history I have on their models. But now I will be forced to, to prove my point.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-12-04 16:02:30
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John... As an ex-academic you will appreciate this catch22
Think about this. You mentioned an increase in HGH levels on a study done by Dr Bosco. Because it has not been able to be replicated anywhere else since, you automatically discounted it as maybe fraudulent.
But if the weight of the athlete effected the performance of the machine. But that was never tested. The research could not be replicated accurately elsewhere to validate the original research.
See how damaging the incompetence was. It is a double edged sword. It makes it impossible for direct comparisons to be done, causing ambiguous, massively varied or negative results. Which our detractors are more than happy to point out and use as ammo against the whole industry.
The further you look at this issue. The clearer it becomes it needs to be exposed. So the whole industry and research can move forward into a more serious phase.
I am confident once this has happened some very positive and consistent results will come out of future research. At least without the clowns in charge we have a chance of proving to the world ( using real scientific standards ) Vibration Training is not a con.
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Scott B |
Posted On:2011-12-04 15:23:00
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Lloyd The idea that every reseracher who has had something publishedover that time period not following protocol also means every peer that reviewed the research failed to review it properly or no one reviewed it at all.
You are talking about hundreds of people . What do you want from them.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-12-03 16:15:50
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I think a few things need to be independently verified because I am getting more than sick of certain academics trying to slander my work ........
Note: At first the website is only going to breach the subject of Vibration Training engineering and research.
(1) That Vibra-Train released the first ever Lineal platform with true specs in line with base research standards.( The ones being called for now ). Independent test done on my first platform under zero load and staggered loads all the way up to 300kg.
Independently verified tests showing every other available platform from before the date of my platforms release ( all the way back 50 years ), failing the same engineering tests. Some do ok under no load, all fail under load. Other tests from different universities around the world back up my work on current models. ( all the big brands that have been tested will be discussed )
(2) That there are academics currently professing to be experts in this field of science still releasing work, who were aware of those standards being set by Vibra-Train, but refused to follow them. Motives will be discussed, obviously not verified.
(3) Estimates through independent evaluation how much time, money and resources were wasted globally as a result of incompetent engineering and researcher. I want the facts and figures to speak for themselves.
(4) Independent verification of my work being original and done in isolation ( all my ideas were original and I had no support from other industry experts ). Interviews will be done with those personally involved with the process at the time. Including dated invoices and photographic evidence.
All this information will be put up against current recommendations, research and the top companies machine designs to analyze similarities to my work.
I think once the facts are presented in a chronological order and reviewed by any impartial third party. The truth will be known and the slander of my work will stop.
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Scott B |
Posted On:2011-12-03 11:21:58
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What is that going to achieve lloyd
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-12-02 16:40:35
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.Coming up soon, a new website ......
Academics and underperforming machines scandal....
A full website completely dedicated to this important subject with photos listing, in chronological order, all the machines used in past "peer reviewed research" that have failed basic engineering tests over the last 20 odd years. Loaded and unloaded.
Along with the photos and links to the studies will be the names of the academics in charge of the research will be published.
This will give the public a direct chance to not only question the validity of the research, and to understand the issues in laypersons terms. And pose pertinent questions to the authors.
This site will have its own forum dedicated to this subject. It is just too important to be lost on this site.
Pease note: I will not be running this site. It is an outsider with a personal interest in this field. But I have been asked to participate.
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Di Heap/VibePlus |
Posted On:2011-12-02 10:00:33
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Hi Mike M
No, that domain has been renewed by the owner until Nov 2013. Probably an automatic renewal as the owner trades in websites. He’s not in any way involved in the vibration training industry.
I agree with you though, that forum and the whole domain is just a thinly veiled disguise to promote Hypervibe (that’s my opinion, okay). They basically tell people to choose between Galileo and Hypervibe knowing Galileo is way more expensive.
We all have bias but on this website we will always provide information and help specific to the enquirer’s needs, location and price.
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Mike M. |
Posted On:2011-12-02 01:59:32
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Hey, just noticed that the vibrationtraining.net domain has expired. What does this mean? No more forum to promote the Hypervibe?
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Mike M. |
Posted On:2011-12-01 15:29:34
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That's interesting about how your Air Reflex handles its air system, Patty. What I have observed about my Contour Plus is this: it seems to leave the air alone, mostly. It pumped it up when I first plugged it in and as best I can recall, has made a few pumping noises at a (very) few random times in the months since then (usually not when it's being used) like it was adusting pressure, and otherwise nothing. I hear the clanking when it cuts on or off, and the humming when it's running, and that's IT. That's all the noise it ever makes.
That's why I'm a bit confused by the idea it is supposed to adjust for a person's weight. As far as I can tell, it never does that.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-11-29 21:55:44
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Patty...
If the machine feels smoother and generally operates in a more controlled manner. Then it probably was an upgrade.
Are WAVE reading this forum ... I would hope WAVE are following any and all feedback because that is just good business sense.
Our questions posed to Dr Marco Cardinale that are clearly being ignored...
These are not going away anytime soon. And no amount of academic posturing will change the historical fact that non-academics discovered the issues of inaccurate specs. And all academics have done since then is confirm that fact.
Like your article says...
"The Internet is a wonderful place, where everyone can freely communicate and write and discuss pretty much about everything. Freedom is a great thing, sadly it also poses its risks "
In your case the risk comes in the form of you not being able to censor the truth.
This is from an article published by me years ago.......
What if the unit is not doing that actual Fq/speed?
This has been documented in the worlds largest selling unit, with variations of + or - 23% from the figure displayed on the control panel. And that was unloaded ( no-one on it ). When someone actually gets on the machine it will vary even more wildly depending on the persons weight and position on the machine. The same above unit was independently tested at universities in N.Z. and Australia , and was shown to drop almost all performance at only 80kg.
Sound familiar ?
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Di Heap/VibePlus |
Posted On:2011-11-29 19:59:34
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To add to my previous post:
The simplicity of the IVTRB program with its strict, safe poses makes the instructor’s job very straightforward. It’s easy to see, at a glance, exactly what position a person is up to; even when watching people on 8 machines in one room, all up to different positions.
Also it’s very easy for the customers. I can only imagine the chaos if everyone had individualised programs.
Patty
I’m glad to hear your machine has been repaired. Keep us updated with your progress using it please.
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Patty |
Posted On:2011-11-29 17:09:57
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First - thanks to Lloyd - I am sure your influence has played a role in my finally getting my Wave repaired. I do feel that they are reading the forum too - as after my post re my frustration with Sandy - he stayed on top of keeping me informed as to what was going on with my repair part - even sent me a tracking number for the shipment. Here’s my update:
Wave part arrived last Tuesday and the repairman came today to do the installation. Hubby was home to meet with him. Same nice guy. He told my husband he had never worked on a vibration machine before and was not really familiar with their use. But, he installed the new insides (appeared to be the main operating control panel that goes in the underside of the machine). I used it tonight - and it worked quite differently than my “pre-breakdown” Wave. First, when I turn it on, it makes a totally different sound. Instead of sounding like it is pumping up with air (continual sound) it makes a sound like someone is tapping a pedal on an air pump…and it makes the sound several times. Then, instead of sounding like it is filling with more air when I touch the start-up screen - it is silent until I touch the screen to adjust for my weight. Then it makes the sound of filling air. Very short time compared to before. So, either my pre-breakdown machine was totally off - or they have made changes to the new control panel that has been installed - or it is still not working properly…I am hoping it is an improved panel. The machine itself feels more smooth…and it does not jump on the floor as much as it did before at start-up and stop. One issue that occurred - when I was doing the stretch -where you bend forward - the lower timer was not running in time with the upper timer. At 17 seconds - it stuck there for about 4 seconds, then went down very slowly, more than a second at each countdown number. It had 10 seconds left on the bottom counter when the top counter had reached zero - stopping the machine. I was able to notice this since I was bent over facing the lower timer. This only happened once…so I don’t know if I will have another issue as I continue to use the Wave.
I started my training at 43 / high and did 2 one minute poses for each of the safety training program poses. Surprisingly, I didn’t have any trouble with the program…actually seemed easier than when I did my very first workout on the machine in July. Hopefully the machine is working correctly since it seems very different now.
Mike M - I noticed the higher prices too! I paid $4,500 - and would not pay the price they are asking now. In hind sight - you got the best deal and think that perhaps I would have been better off going with the contour plus…oh well..time will tell. If I can get consistent use now and begin to see some results, I will be content. My husband has agreed to begin using it too…so I am hoping it will make a difference for him.
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Di Heap/VibePlus |
Posted On:2011-11-29 16:42:15
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With the IVTRB Safety Program ( http://www.vibratrainlease.com/poster.html | http://www.vibratrainlease.com/safety-workout-explained.html )
we can manage many customers with just one instructor (two at the most busy times) using 10 machines. Most people are great, they just get on with the training session with or without instructor help as needed; others moan that it's too hard and really don't make much effort (these either shape up or just stop coming).
Still others are argumentative, think they know more than the instructor and almost seem to try to be difficult. Today I've been told - my personal trainer says this isn't good training, its easy and I should just do it to warm up before I come to the gym to do the real work. I asked, "has your trainer ever been to Vibra-Train?" No, they haven't BUT they state authoritatively that they know more about it than we who work here know - - totally lazy trainer I say. Too lazy to even check us out!
Another of todays customers tried to set up one instructor against another - and this happens often. This very overweight young lady on her third session assured me that she had been doing a Full Push-Up (not a mini Push-Up). She became quite arrogant and angry when I suggested she was mistaking the Full Push-Up for the Full Plank which she was possibly able to do. Her response - the other instructor let me do it. I explained to her that she hadn't even held Position 1 - Basic Squat well and made her do the mini Push-Up and she remained angry throughout the session.
I had a customer try to start the session at Position 3 (Wide Stance Squat) and when told Positions 1 (Basic Squat) and 2 (Push-Up) obviously come first, replied, I was told to do that one first - No, totally wrong! Yet she still insisted - she was told to follow the program correctly or not do it at all. And my day started with a customer who thinks the atmosphere isn't how she likes it now that we are busier - no, it is more vibrant and bustling now - that customer will just have to adapt.
Yesterday a newbie lasted just 2 seconds and stood up from the 60 second Basic Squat. We tried twice but she (a 20 year old athletic girl) said it was too hard and she feared it might give her a heart attack. I was very patient with her even though I was trying hard not to laugh.
In contrast, the joys of today were two newbies who both struggled with the program but loved it. One who had strong, quality muscle to start with but told me she wasn't exercising at all, worked very hard through the IVTRB Program holding perfect position throughout - she's going to get great results.
So, my advice to new trainers and new studio owners - get very tough, very fast or customers will walk all over you. There are training materials freely available for you - ask on here and we will help you.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-11-29 15:20:35
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Estimated warranty work is built into retail. Quite often prices will go up as real world costs become apparent.
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