Di, if there is no way to buy a Vibra-Train Studio, why has Wayne been trying to sell his studio on Trade Me (I know, listing 527913560 was removed a few hours ago)? http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pet6uyf5VrYJ:www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/businesses-for-sale/other/auction-527913560.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=de

Regarding your calculation: To know that you sell deals on GrabeOne for $3.50 and less a session or to sell sessions for $5 and then to calculate with $10 a session is a kind of self-deception.

@ “You seem to know so much Jackie, so you no doubt know that the full price is $15 a visit  ($10 without anti-cellulite massage)”. à This information came from you Di (15.11.12, 10:22): “11x   supervised vibration training sessions - $100 (that’s just a little over $9 a session). Sessions take around 15 minutes.”

And no, I’m not involved in that industry. I’m on the other side of the business – I proof the business plans and loan applications for the sport and recreation industry. So maybe I know a little bit about that industry and the numbers behind. And I found a lot of interesting and helpful information here.
So let’s go back to work, time is money on my side and passion is all on yours.

By my calculations using $10 a visit it’s about 46 people a day over 6 days over 52 weeks.

You seem to know so much Jackie, so you no doubt know that the full price is $15 a visit  ($10 without anti-cellulite massage). Only Some studios have reduced that to $10 and Mike says he charges some people $5 now.  Mike did say that turnover was in his first year! Not that I have any problem with his figures as the studio I’m at has 9 machines and there are many times when all nine are in use. We also do long hours and 7 days a week. (as you’ve pointed out, that’s the owner’s choice). Oh, and we have people who pay nothing at all - they have life threatening conditions and Vibra-Train gift them their sessions.

You may not be able to figure Vibra-Train’s success financially - I even tend to agree that working out the money as you have shows its not always a high income business. It does work well over time and depending on core expenses like location rent. I’ve definitely looked at all of this and more - way back when I was interested in a PowerPlate studio that was for sale. I didn’t proceed far with that, too many problems with both the machines and location.

You’ve left off any extra products that some studios have - tanning, sauna; and others. Not a core part of Vibra-Train but no different to PowerPlate having body wraps or whatever the latest is.  PowerPlate studios all closed down, even the Head Office (oh and that has a doozy story about it’s demise but you can ask other about that). Vibra-Train’s oldest studios are still working.

You say - FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE a vibration training studio can earn...

So, you have more involvement in this industry than simply as a client/customer?

For the information of anyone reading this: There’s no way you’d get to buy a Vibra-Train studio. The process is by application, not buying, and most applicants are are turned down. I’ve observed this.

Hi Mike, no, the $36,000 was the calculated yearly wage for one staff member (or like Lloyd wrote for the operating owner of the studio) – for 60h a week. From my experience you can earn between $53,000 and $135,000 with a vibration studio (brand-independent) a year; dependent on location and the number of machines you own. If your session price is between $5 and $10 and you have earned $144,000 in your first year, then you have sold around 19,200 sessions. Let’s calculate again: 19,200 paid + only 300 free (first) session per year = 19,500. If the studio is open 10h a day and 6 days a week we have a total of 3,120 opening hours – that means you had more than 62 customers every single day, more than 6 customers every single hour? If that would be the case I would quit my job and would buy a Vibra Train vibration studio next week.

Jackie

One more thing, you think you only make $36,000 a year in this business? How did you come to that conclusion? We turned over 4 times that amount in the first year of business.

Jackie you seem to be missing the whole point about this industry… Yes it is a business and yes you do want to make a profit, but for that to happen….

1: You need the right Machine…..Seen every other company collapse except Vibra-train, yes some studios have closed which had more to do the people running them and passion, this business is like all others, without passion it won’t survive.

2: You need the right Programmes to match…..We went down the track of changing programmes for each individual, doesn’t work!! To time consuming, people can’t remember what to do, and you lose passion trying to come up with new ideas to keep people interested. King poses are proven to be the effective ones, why do you think vibro-gym studios stole Lloyds programme when they used to be around.

3: You need the right person with enough passion….Passionate about this industry and passionate about helping people even at their own expense sometimes, I get far more satisfaction sponsoring clients for free that have a medical condition or are obese or too poor to afford even $5.

I am sorry you had a bad experience with Vibra-Train, one thing a good trainer should do is read the individual and if they can’t hold a certain pose we can change things to suit, that’s the great thing about side handle bars.

I have been in this industry for 6 years and have helped set up people all over the world, so have seen a lot.

My take on power plate is they are the most dishonest company that ever existed, hence the reason they are very much broke around the globe today, it was only a matter of time before KARMA kicked them in the arse for ripping off so many people.

We have always only charged $5-$10 a session and turned a very healthy profit from the day our doors opened, you can try and analyse this and analyse, that but at the end of the day experience counts over what someone thinks it does or does not cost to run this successfully.

If you think power plate is that good with their flashy advertising Bull Sh#*ting everybody about qualified this and qualified that, think about this one basic fundamental thing when it comes to true vibration training….

Vibration Training is all about the involuntary contraction of the muscle, for this to work you have to remain relaxed in a static position, why the hell do power plate instructors make you jump around the place like an idiot then??

Jackie, you really need to ask more questions of PowerPlate. How many PP studio owners sold their business after making an excellent profit

Ask about the rate of machine breakdown and the difficulty of getting repair.  Ask about the authorised centre operations license conditions changing and being required to re sign .. A hint here, most didn't.

Lloyd's backing of his brand is unconditional. He's available to help licensees. No Vibra Train studio has ever closed because of machine breakdown. Actually I've seen him go out and repair machines of other brands to help those business stay operational.

A quick reply though I see Lloyd has answered while I was delayed

Vibra-Train does not make home machines like the ones you saw at the health and fitness shows.

 Your $ figures are reasonable but omit the hard facts of small business throughout New Zealand. Vibra-Train location licensees can and do make a good living over time. Vibra-Train is way more than an investment. Licensees are passionate about the health and fitness of their customers. It's a different type of operator to the person who simply counts the dollars after each session. I do agree, though that business owners should expect a good return. 

Pricing - the dichotomy between charging what people can, or will, pay and what you believe your service is worth or the return you immediately want. I can't see many New Zealand locations surviving where clients pay $30-$55 a session and attend two or three times a week. This would be training for the rich only. This is not my vibration training "worldview". 

Oh Lloyd, it is so sad – you cannot forget Power Plate for a single minute! And be sure: I never confuse Vibra-Train with Power Plate. I have never seen a Power Plate Studio here in the last years, so you must made the bad experience years ago. And I read more from you here in the forum – and you know exactly why the Power Plate Studios have closed in 2007 or so: bad machines and wrong business plan.  And a few Vibra-Train Studios have closed too, and you asked me why the others are still open? May be I have the answer: If you have to make an investment of $100,000 or $172,500 and you can only pay off your fixed costs you have to go-on and go-on, you have to work 10 hours and more a day as a business owner for less than $36,000 per year. Because – you have to pay back the loan. Yes, you are your own boss and yes, you can work until you are 80. But I’m afraid that you have to do this. May be the use of Power Plate has damaged my brain too much to understand your long term plan – but, Lloyd, I wish you all the best, may all your dreams come true!

Hi Lloyd, I see: If it comes to Power Plate you act like an ex-husband; washing of dirty clothes and warning all the others against this evil dangerous ex. This shouldn’t be your mission Lloyd! You claim yourself as the leader in vibration training technology and that you are passionate and relentless in your ambition to be the best. So, please let me know why you are not visible in New Zealand? Why only very few people know the benefits of vibration training? Vibration Training is not a subject in Health & Fitness Magazines, TV or any other Media then may be this forum or your YouTube channel. I visited 3 Expos this year in Auckland: Back Pain Expo, Fitness Expo and Health & Living and I have seen 3 other competitors but not Vibra-Train. You missed all the opportunities to explain the benefits of vibration training to the people. If you are the leader in that industry, then you have a responsibility too!

Di is taking a lot about prices. $9 for a 15 minute session, sounds great for your customers, but is it profitable for the business owner? I have a background as a start-up consultant, so let’s do a calculation: You sell a studio for $150,000 + GST = $172,500. As a good investment should be written off after 3 years, this makes $1,105 per week (without any loan interest or fees). Before you can open a studio the owner has to invest money for renovation, furnishing, signs, license, start-up marketing and a few more other things. So there is a minimum of $5,000 (= $96 per week). And the owner has to pay rent, insurances, telephone, broadband, electricity, security, …another $1,100 per week (as a minimum, no money for marketing, advertisement, repairs, cleaning included). And you have to pay your staff or yourself as the owner. Vibra-Train studios are open for around 60h a week. So your wages bill will be $750 per week (as a minimum). That makes outgoings of $3,051 a week (as a minimum).
Vibra-Train has sold often deals like 10 sessions for $35, 20 for $59 and 30 for $79. And with a 50% commission you get only $17.50, $29.50 and $39.50. $39.50 means an hourly wage of $5.27 only. Ok, let’s forget the commission and see it as a marketing investment. With a mix of (hopefully) 50% paying customers and 50% voucher customers you can earn $5.94 per 15 minute session. So you need 514 customers per week, 74 per day or 9 customers per opening hour before the studio makes any profit. From my experience most of the studios have less than 40 customers per day, so you can just pay off your monthly fixed costs.

From my point of view as the leader in that industry and licensor you have the responsibility to make a successful business possible. And cheap session prices are not the key to success!

Afraid of PowerPlate or of losing a few customers?  Not a chance. We used to tell our customers to go down the road and trial PowerPlate if they seriously questioned the difference in the machines or the programs. Apart from that, I couldn’t support PowerPlate due to dishonest marketing.

I’ve never lost a customer because they “can’t” do the program; some find it too challenging for their liking, not their ability.  

Just so you know, there are Assisted/Therapy poses for people who truely can’t do the standard poses due to disability, injury, or health. There’s an advanced program for people who want and are capable of that extra challenge.  Vibra-Train do not write totally individual programs for clients; in my opinion that’s simply a marketing tool that allows extra money to be charged and extra time to be spent with the client. It’s suggestive of interest in the client but tell me, really, how individual is the program?

Have I tried PowerPlate?  Yes, a number of times.  A senior trainer gave me an “individual” program after being told I’d done Vibra-Train for two years.  It consisted of simple 30-second poses, not based on my ability but he said people had to start off small and have the program changed as they progressed.  Even though I proved I had no trouble holding the poses and I asked for more, he told me it would take a year to reach the level of the standard program I was using at Vibra-Train.  I went back once, got nothing out of it and followed up with the full program at Vibra-Train on my way home (Note: I was not a Vibra-Train employee at that time).  I’ve proven myself at Trade Shows being able to hold a squat on whatever PowerPlate was being shown.  

Like Lloyd said, If you are benefiting from your sessions at Power Studio, and are happy (and able) to pay the $ price, keep on with it.

The daily fitness deal I first wrote about – has still not sold even ONE 5 session voucher.

Jackie

My mistake actually labelling the PowerStudio a training academy. I knew it was privately owned just wrote up wrong.  I’ll correct that to say they have run the academy training (led by Erica and Paul) which, fair enough, is the PP training.  And, It’s a PowerPlate authorised centre (not sure what that means now PowerPlate International under administration and a sale in process).  I’m surprised to see any new-ish  PowerPlate machine locations given the history in New Zealand and worldwide and, in my opinion, the disrepute PowerPlate has brought upon the Vibration Training industry.  We’ll play “wait and see”.

Updates for Power Plate North America.  A former Power Plate CEO bought them for 3 Million USD.  The current CEO resigned to join the bidding war to buy it too.  This seems very strange and fishy to me.  I guess thier hoding company JHWhitney was at the end of keeping it in thier investment portfolio. Maybe something to do with the fact that they had 50 percent of revenue in debts outstanding.  Is it me or does it seem really messed up that a company can wipe the slate clean in bankruptcy, get purchased by a former CEO and start up where they left off before.  The way I see it American tax payers end up bailing out the bad debt over time as the bankruptcy courts allow this to happen.  Then those same tax payers get screwed again when they buy one of thier over priced machines. 

you can read more about it here.   http://clubindustry.com/inside_manufacturers/power-plate-international-enters-into-agreement-with-ppi-acquisitions-20121102/index.html

Di, why are you so focused on Power Plate? Why are you investing so much time and energy to follow up the activities from others? Are you afraid to loss a few of your customers? Have you ever thought about the possibility that people could be happy to pay more for their training? May be they are willing to invest a little bit more to get a personal and individual and not a supervised standard program. We have to make so many choices every day; it’s like going to lunch: You can go to the Chinese takeaway and you will get a standard meal for $12.25 only or  you can go to a restaurant with a welcome atmosphere  and friendly well educated staff and eat  a la carte for $60. You will get a lunch at the end – but it is your choice what you get.

Di, I was a Vibra-Train customer at Paul Matthews Road with a 10 session card. I left after 4 sessions, because the frequency of the vibration was too high and program hasn’t allowed any alternations. For me as a beginner, the training was too intensive. Every time I asked to shorten the time for a single position I get the answer: NO, we are not allowed to change time or program. Ok, so I changed - the studio. After my experience with Vibra-Train I was very sceptical regarding vibration training. But Power Studio in Albany (by the way that is not a Power Plate Studio as you claim; they are independent and only work with this equipment) offered a free trial session to me and I’m so happy that I gave vibration training a second chance. The whole experience was so different: The questionnaire at the beginning, the individual program I got, the atmosphere and: the vibration machine. I got a full session and I felt great after I left the studio. I started 5 months ago and I’m still trying 3 sessions per week. My whole body has changed: I lost 19 kg and a lot of cm, I have more energy and have invited a lot of my friends to join the training.

Di, may be you (and Lloyd) are not really good informed about Power Plate: They have not opened a new studio nor have plans for this. So don’t be afraid. And only the studio is new in Albany, the trainers have worked in a similar studio for many years. So maybe you should be a little bit more careful with your assumptions?
And the article in the last post from Lloyd about the Power Plate machines is 5 years old. I’m sure even Power Plate has learned and the machines are better no then in 2008. I never heard about Power Plate before I started my training at Vibra-Train, but I found them through your forum, many thanks for that!

Compare this

A local daily deal company is offering a 50% off PowerPlate deal

5x   personal training vibration sessions - $150       (that means the regular price is $300 or NZ$60 a session). The sessions are advertised as 25 minutes.

The Vibra-Train studio where I work has a regular price of

11x   supervised vibration training sessions - $100     (that’s just a little over $9 a session). Sessions take around 15 minutes.

I’m going to be fair now and tell you my studio has permanently reduced prices so let’s compare prices with the Vibra-Train studio located closest to where the PowerPlate sessions are held.

That Vibra-Train studio has a regular price of 11 sessions for $135 – so that’s $12.25 a session and includes the full training program and anti-cellulite massage. Compare that with the $60 price just up the road!

The only other “difference” advertised is that PowerPlate sessions are said to be Personal Training. I take this to mean an Instructor is with you.  Vibra-Train provides Fully Supervised Training.  This ranges from one-on-one personal training through to one instructor supervising a room of, maybe, 5 people.  Note:  using the whole body work-out Standard Safety Program Vibra-Train customers soon learn the positions and most don’t require an instructor standing beside them every second.  Those that do, get that at no extra cost.  Those who are capable and ready are given advanced poses again at no extra cost.   And I haven’t said anything about the difference in quality of the machine brands!

I’m not surprised at what PowerPlate is charging though – that’s normal marketing for them.

I’m also not surprised that they haven’t sold even ONE voucher in the 24 hours the deal has been available.

(The PowerPlate Studio offering this deal is a fairly new, relaunch of their training academy. An attempt maybe to get the brand going again in NZ  - Not like that’s going to happen with PowerPlate International and others worldwide now under administration.  Add in the breakdown and fast wear and tear of their machines – see the previous two posts in this forum. What is this PP studio going to do  when their machines need parts or repair?)

Lloyd is absolutely correct.  Many articles Lloyd wrote on the site he mentions below were plagiarized by Ted.  Ted took credit for the work Lloyd did by putting his name on the articles as the author.  And many comments were just completely wiped out.

John T. Weatherly

Just looked at the Vibrogym site and under research with the heading "strength" they have the word strength spelled wrong.  Really makes you wonder about quality when people are so lazy they cannot proofread and correct spelling mistakes on their own website.  And the word is spelled wrong under the "research" section.

John T. Weatherly