Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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MikeHair Posted On:2011-05-21 20:56:43

Wow, as of today my wife and I no longer owe any money to the finance company for our business. It has been over 5 years since we originally started.

 

A big thank you to Lloyd Shaw and his business partner Jude for believing in us and helping our business to grow to the next level.  

 
Mike M Posted On:2011-05-21 15:12:09

MikeP - that sounds like you got a great deal. I wonder if they would offer a similar discount on the other models? That's around a 31% discount off the current listed price that you got. The machine looks better than anything power plate offers, and most others also. Super deal. I have sent them an email asking about it but no reply so far. If they offered a similar drop on the contourplus then the price would be a match for what hypervibe is asking over here.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-05-21 10:31:33
Mike M...
 
All the Medium --> Low Energy Lineal machines you listed first are basically Power Plate rip offs. They will give some results but you have to be super strict on your poses, and hold them much longer or double up. The 10min program will not work on them. More like 20 - 30 min will just work you out.
 
The Pivotal & Lineal ....
 
These machines were designed by fools who believe everything their accelerometers tell them. All they end up with is a piss weak machine that doesn't do anything very well.  Jack of all trades master on none type of thing.
 

 
 
Wave and YouTube vids....  Good idea. I will put it to them. But trust me you will not be disappointed.
 
MikeP Posted On:2011-05-21 04:00:48

Mike M

I can tell you I have the wave Air Reflex. You can get it for 4500. You just have to ask. I have been using it for over 2 months now. This is after I had the dreaded Power Plate. The wave is by far a better machine. I even received a call from Dr. Sidu to go over any questions that I might have had. I have been using only the Wave and some TRX on the off days and my body is changing. I was already at 9 percent bf but I notice a difference in core and overall leg strength.

I have nothing but good things to say about them. The other plus is that it is manufactured in North America and not China. So far I am very happy with the service and quality.  

 
Mike M. Posted On:2011-05-21 01:24:10

Thanks Di and thanks lloyd for the replies. Where to start? I was reading back in this forum and it seems there was another fellow who was looking at machines who lives in the US (IIRC) and he was considering the Wave and also the Bodyshaker and the Hypergravity (I think this was back around 2009 or so). I think it appeared he was going to get the Wave Contourplus. So I am looking at that one now. The bad part of that is, most of these machines have youtube videos where you can at least see a real machine running, but not the Waves. So here I am considering a machine I can't even see on youtube, for $4k. Ah well...

Where did you hear the Hypervibe Performance is on the way out? I wonder what is to replace it, is it going to be another pivotal, or a lineal? What about these machines I see, some on ebay, that claim to use both forms of vibration? How do you evaluate a machine that claims to run two motors one at 6-28 Hz and the other at 30-50 Hz? I could send you a link to one if you like, if it can be pasted in this forum, not sure about that, since some characters don't seem to work here.

Here's one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BH-Fitness-Advanced-Body-Platform-Whole-Body-Vibration-/280663122066?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4158d36092

And here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PowerVibe-Zen-Pro-5900-Whole-Body-Vertical-Vibration-/200603632113?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb4e881f1

And here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BH-Fitness-VibroBoost-Whole-Body-Vibration-Platform-WBV-/370403005094?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563dbd52a6

And here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WHOLE-BODY-VIBRATION-MACHINE-PLATE-POWER-SLIM-PRO-3000-/320619817629?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa66e2a9d

This one claims the two motors/frequencies:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WHOLE-BODY-VIBRATION-MACHINE-PLATE-POWER-SLIM-PRO-4000-/220784820426?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3367cd00ca

(That last one I find confusing, how about you?)

Lastly, if you were choosing between say a Nitrofit Deluxe, a Hypervibe performance, Wave Contourplus, a DKN XG10, and one of those ebay models, which would you think would be least likely to be outgrown over time? Thanks.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-05-20 14:43:22
Laura ....
 
At present the best company to buy in your area is from http://www.wavexercise.com/products.html It will have local support and they have a good long term reputation.
 
T-Zone.........  Not really a long term investment. But better than nothing. Do not believe a word the studios that sell the machines say though. They will not tell you how often the machine needs replacing etc...
 
HyperVibe.....  The machines are good. And the machine does not have to get up to 27hz to get you good results.  It is more about strictness of poses than raw speed.
 
Nitro-Fit.....  Yes specs are incorrectly quoted at present. But they have a good reputation to date with no bad feedback at all. The guy in charge is very safety conscious and in it for the long term.
 
Take a look at these guys too for other options, http://www.dkn-usa.com/ 
 
 
Mike M ......
 
As above regarding training. Having raw speed on a Pivotal is not always for the best. In fact from the years of experience Mike Hair has had ( opened the worlds first Pivotal studio ) anything over 22hz is hard to hold pose properly on ( and he is hard-core ) And in fact the upper body is all done on the lower speeds on Pivotal.  
 
Just as with weight training, sure you need some resistance behind the muscle, but control is just as important.
 
So you need to concentrate on these things for training ( Pivotal or Lineal ) , in this order....
 
Large Platform
Good warranty
Good company
Speed / power
 
Note: Be wary of companies that outmode its products often. Power Plate did that in NZ and you cant get the older models fixed now. Once the warranty period has been covered,  it cost you a fortune to get anyone to look at
 
Di Heap Posted On:2011-05-20 12:25:39

Hi Laura

Can you please tell us more about yourself and others who will be using the machine? Age (approx), body type, any injury or medical concerns, and what you want to achieve/results?  You’ve told me elsewhere that there is a studio that has TZone near you.  Go and try it BUT don’t be talked into buying a machine, just yet

 
Di Heap Posted On:2011-05-20 11:40:56

Mike M

The HyperVibe Performance has been modified so it is quite different to the Nitrofit Deluxe.  Going by specs it would give greater training results.

The Nitrofit Personal – small one advertised as going to 30Hz – It has some mass but I strongly believe 30Hz is an exaggeration and anyway, why would you want that?  I’ve found anything above 22Hz is too uncomfortable to use due to feet slipping.  Check out this article for how bad that can be http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/unbalanced-training-unbalanced-marketing

It’s very hard to buy a machine off specs, you need to try out as many as you can. Your own body will answer the questions for you.  The three you have mentioned are pivotal.  It would be good to try a lineal (upright) machine as well but, as you’ve said, there’s not much chance of that. 

 
Mike M. Posted On:2011-05-20 08:31:41

Hi. I have been reading both here and over at the hypervibe site, trying to learn a bit. I am a person interested in the training aspect, but I live in a part of the USA - NC - that seems to have little in the way of places to try these machines out. It appears to me that a number of the better units, like those made in Holland, just arent going to be available to me, to try or to buy.

 

I would like to ask one question - I see that both the hypervibe new model and the nitrofit deluxe model look identical or nearly so in the pictures, and the price over here is within a small amount of one another. Does anyone know if its the same or has it been modified. Also, what about the new low end nitrofit that is being advertised as a pivotal that goes to 30 Hz - does it really.

What training result could one expect from those units, or others that might be available in my area. Thanks for any advice.

 
Laura Posted On:2011-05-20 00:41:20

So what about home models  ....Ive been searching for quite some time now without making a purchase as I have read all these very well written articles. Im very leery. Im willing to pay for quality but there are SO many mixed reviews and Id really like something not made cheaply in China. Id love some suggestions as Ive looked in your favourites but they all seem to be commercial. Suggestions would be SOO appreciated ...

This industry is confusing hte hell out of me. Here, in Ontario, we have Tzone as the most popular but Ive nary heard anything great about the make and model of the machine themselves.

 

Thanks for ANY input,

 
John Posted On:2011-05-19 01:18:14

Thanks for sharing this very important work Lloyd.  Vibration training 15 min three times a week significantly increased bone mineral density and lower body strength in this year long study on postmenopausal women.  This was a good study looking at both pivotal and lineal vibration equipment compared to the typical wellness type of exercises prescribed for this population.  Vibration training was superior to the typical wellness type of prescription for this population.  I think the impact of this study is potentially huge.  It was in the journal Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise.

John Weatherly

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-05-18 21:53:52
 
More research showing both Pivotal and Lineal training to be safe and effective at increasing bone density.
 
 
108 postmenopausal women with an average age of 65 tested over a period of 12 months.
 
Please note : No negative effects recorded. How does any company touting one system is safer than the other explain that. I will tell you one thing, if any group was going to tell you something was wrong, it was going to be a group of postmenopausal woman.    
 
 
On all the tests both Pivotal and Lineal scored similar results. And both systems were tested up against a control group doing low-intensity gymnastics sessions ( probably similar to floor Pilates ) . Vibration Training came out on top of the recommended "traditional" form of exercise for older Woman.       
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-05-15 11:24:52
And just in case anyone thought that Power Plate people had gotten any more honest..
 
 
 ..... where was it made?  
  
 Machine made in England.
 
Bet they will come back and do the old "we were confused" BS . It is like they put all their people through some special training course on how NEVER to tell the truth.     
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-05-13 12:39:02
 
\"\"
Yes you are correct.  Just got updated address now....  
 
 Mount / Papamoa address .....
 
73 Corinth Grove
 
Ph 07 542 1188  or 021 350 649
 
By appointment.
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-05-12 22:05:35
No unless someone has not informed me , you have 2 locations down there now ...
 
\"\"
Tauranga:
Unit 8, Brook Street
Fraser Cove
Tauranga
Phone: 07 576 9881
or 021 2063679

\"\"
Opening Hours:
Monday, Wednesday & Friday
8.00am - 2.00pm
Tuesday & Thursday
9.00am - 12pm & 4.30pm - 6.30pm
Saturday 9.00am - 12.00pm
\"\"
Tauranga, Mt Maunganui:
233a Oceanbeach Rd
Mount Maunganui
Phone: 07 574 2804
or 021 350649
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-05-08 17:10:46
Well in the wake of Vibration machines in Europe breaking down, companies deliberately outmoding products, and not supplying spare parts ( trying to force a new sale ) 
 
This company is about to launch giving the consumer a chance to keep their investments going. 
 
 
You can see in this vid here the refurbishment and spare parts poster in the background. Note the new TrueVibe the guy is on.....
 
 
This is a great thing, because it will kill the sales on new Power Plates, as it will be cheaper to refurbish. And with Power Plate failing to accomplish anything new in the last 8 years. Why would you upgrade to the next latest pricy model ?    
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-05-07 01:11:40
So far we have only really had to protect the consumer from unethical people.....  http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/no-such-thing-as-a-bad-machine
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-05-06 17:16:12
If it is this unit...
 
 
They have been in NZ for years and were not a success at gyms here. They are a cheaper version of the Power Plate. So a Medium Energy Lineal machine ( at best )
 
They are not something I would pay to use and they are NOT considered gym quality machinesby us.  I would not be able to get anyone on it if it was at my studio.
 
So if it comes free with your membership then no harm using it, but if they try to charge extra. Flag it. 
 
DebW Posted On:2011-05-06 16:23:12

Hi again I should say the model is FMVB499

 
DebW Posted On:2011-05-06 16:22:00

Hi there

You helped me out a while ago avoid buying a cheap machine. Im now looking to perhaps become a foundation member of a conventional gym that will also have vibration platoforms.  The one they are using is a Freemotion Vertex from HF Industries.  I cant find any info on this machine in your reviews and was wondering if you have any feedback on it.  I would post a link to their website but cant paste in this forum.  Any feedback would be appreciated if you know of this machine or company.  Thanks, Deb

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-05-06 13:05:05
Oh yes. There are a whole host of "experts" who have tried to sell books etc... on this industry. With even the best only having 10% of what is already online for free. And if you look at their background, they have minimal experience with multiple types of machines.
 
I think those books and papers they are aimed at the lazy trainer market, who likes to believe if they have "read a book", they are now themselves "experts". 
 
I cant remember how many times I have been asked to write a book. And I always said the industry was not mature enough for it yet.    
 
MikeHair Posted On:2011-05-06 08:14:41
Probably old news, but i was poking around on another site to do with vibration training and clicked on a link to vibo whole body vibration programmes, with a guy by the name of Glenn Ruscoe on it.
 
 
Now nothing gets me pissed more than people charging for info to do with this industry..
 
 
Glenn Ruscoe is charging for information on what to look for in a home machine, training dvd’s, personal users guide etc.
 
 
Now correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t all that information on this site for free???
 
 
Just goes to show peoples priority's and motivations for being involved in this industry....I personally know of countless occasions when Lloyd Shaw has used his own time and petrol to drive a good 30 minutes to help people who did not know how to work there Chinese bought home machine, for no cost or benefit to him.
 
 
Where does Glenn Ruscoe get off pretending to be an expert and charging for info????
 
I know he will be reading this, so an explanation would be appreciated.
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-05-02 18:32:00
Important message...
 
When coming to this site, please make sure you use Google to search under "vibration training",  find the link, then go the site. This helps our Google ranking, as going through favorites does not. 
 
I know its a hassle but please take the time to do this every visit if you are trying to support this sites climb to #1.
 
Note: Works even better if you are logged onto Google at the time ( your gmail account )     
 
 
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-04-30 15:11:58
Repost from 20/02/2011 regarding companies using the term "commercial "  as a marketing tool........ 
 
The cost of reconditioning your large Power Plate Pro machine....
 
It has just come to light that it can cost $4000 per machine to replace all the wearable parts ( only replaced a few parts, nothing major like the motors ) . And this was not a hard worked unit by most studio standards. Anyone purchasing a machine should ask for a redeemable quote ( past the warranty date ) for all parts that might need replacing. And get it in writing, Power Plate are famous for reneging or even outright denying verbal deals.  And get the quote from Power Plate head office, as in my country Power Plate have failed and relaunched 4 times, each owner not honoring the lasts promises.    
 
 
If you have only 1 machine, this might be affordable. But imagine having 4 or more machines, as a business you would be staring down the barrel of a $16,000 bill to keep them looking tidy and running.
 
Note: The person is now trying to sell the machine for $6000 with no takers. You do the math's. 
 
And Power Plate are not the only ones.....
 
Some companies are charging $800 for a single set of isolators ( the rubber bits that act like a car suspension system for the plate ) . If these are not replaced the machine becomes uncontrollable or stops vibrating properly.
 
Note:  These companies simply deliberately made parts that break so they can fleece you later. And guess what, you can only use the exact parts they sell. Nothing else will work. Unfortunately the industry is not big enough to make producing generic parts profitable yet. So you really are stuck with the problem.
 
I hope this is a wake-up call to those who thought my warnings about companies just putting the label "commercial" on anything that moved was not scare mongering or an anti-competitive sales pitch.  It is real and a real concern.  
 
MikeHair Posted On:2011-04-30 14:51:24

Casey,

If you want to contact me my email is mike_hair@xtra.co.nz

I can save you a lot of headaches and money by sharing what I have learnt over the last 5 years in this industry.

Only to happy to help

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-04-30 14:12:47
Casey.
 
Here are two pieces you should read. Based on facts and others peoples well known experiences. 
 
 
 
Contacting Mike Hair would also be a good idea , as he has dealt with multiple companies and heard and seen it all.
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-04-29 20:38:48
To help clarify the line of High Energy from Medium Energy, read this......  http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/extra-force-better-training-results
 
But basically if you wind a Medium Energy Lineal all the way up to 50Hz. And feel the power of the vibration. High Energy units starts where they leave off.
 
Eg.......
 
A Power Plate @ 50Hz is considered a Level 0.5
 
A VibroGym @ 50hz = level 1.0  ( twice as powerful as a Power Plate ) I used those original Belgium studies as a benchmark .
 
My smallest training unit is a 2.0 , largest is a 5.0    
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-04-29 20:27:07
Hello Casey...  A few points.
 
(1) The larger Steel Wave units are what we call high quality Medium Energy Lineal machines. They do not get much better in that category and Wave are a trustworthy company.   
 
(2)  No a good quality High Energy Lineal unit should last indefinitely. Maybe new bearings every 10 years and servicing to the electronics every so often. 
 
(3) The 3 years thing came from companies selling cheap and shoddy equipment calling it "commercial" but them actually only being slightly above home machine level ( Power Plate the worst offender and others followed )  .
 
Read this for an overall idea of the issues in our industry you may have heard about.....
 
 
Casey Johnson Posted On:2011-04-29 19:30:08

My studio is looking into buying vibration machines and I read that the life span of full commercial high energy linear machines is 3 year+. Does this mean I need to buy new machines every 3 years?

 

I have seen very litte review of Wave and would appreciate feedback on their machines and which of their models are in the full commercial high energy range. Thanks.

 
Arron Posted On:2011-04-27 13:42:25
Brice from Sydney. Every company says their machine is the best and does it all. Why are you surprised at that. Surely you are not that naive.
 
This website is not a marketing site it is well know for giving a more balanced view and has lots of logical information to help the poor public see through the stretching of the truth by advertisers. Not trainers who should already know better.
 
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