Well I for one am glad I did not buy a Power Plate. It was a near thing, I must admit. I saw on Craigslist a used Power Plate My5 for $1200 a few weeks before I ordered the Wave. But with what I was reading here and elsewhere, I could not in all good conscience buy something like that. And you never know with used equipment, it could be buying someone else's headache.

Enjoyed the Power Plate Scammers Part 2 article.  This is what Lloyd and our community can accomplish on a global scale.  Name, shame, and put these con artists out of business.

John Weatherly

Thanks Lloyd, I did. I am kind of confused/perturbed in that the chart(s) do not present any proof of their claims, which to me smacks more of a marketing claim than anything else. Where's the math or equations or formulae backing any of that up?

That said, I have felt that the effect is not too different than what the charts claim, so I kind of believe the claimed effect to a degree - on the joints. It's pretty obvious that a box jump, for example, is a lot harder on the joints than standing on a vibration platform.

So how is it that that Sasha guy is claiming 20G for one of the Galileo platforms, when Galileo's own chart is claiming around the 1G range on the leg and around 2G on the knee? Is he still talking about forces on the joint, or is he now talking the induced force within the muscle? Where is the math supporting any of these claims? How do you measure forces that are induced anyway, if the external (G) forces have such a small amount to do with it, as appears may be true?

Mike M

Our Wave has not shipped, Rochelle said four weeks, so hopefully it will be on its way before the 8th of July. We had decided if they didn’t come off the $5000 sales price, we would go with a different unit. But fortunately we were able to get the same price they offered you and the other Mike. We were told that we were the last customers the lower price would be offered to, due to the high shipping costs. I see now that their sale price is at $5,500, so I am glad we took the leap and bought ours. You are ahead of me on fully understanding the technology…but I am interested in learning more…so the question / answer series you have going here is great.

Lloyd

Want to be sure I understand you - when you say “strict program” - do you mean “standard program” …that is my husband should do the full standard safety program, aiming for 60 second poses at 43 hz on low - this would be considered the “softer positions”? Just a reminder, he does have a few bolts and screws in his back (from a surgery he had four years ago) - will this make any difference or is there any pose he should omit? I am thinking we can use a stationary walker set over the base of the Wave for him to hold on to.

He has high arches and weak ankles - any special instructions to deal with this?

I am looking forward to your future article on variation of frequency during training -hopefully we will be ready to make use of it when it comes out. Thanks again for your input.

Mike M

It’s easy to get bogged down unless you keep in mind your desired training results. You have to also consider the motion – lineal, pivotal, and even the so called 3D (tri-planar), even rotation – think of an auto accident where rotation is involved; it’s serious (over 2g even).

Peak to peak, pivotal platforms rate higher but the motion is so different to lineal and to get a depth of muscle contraction (rather than a big shake like you see on the YouTube videos) you have to up the fq and so decrease the peak.  Think about this – walking downstairs can produce over 8g but the rate of change acceleration is 2g or less.  In lineal systems the direction of force and amplitude has to be controlled to give safe, effective training. Pivotal is more forgiving but even then I’ve felt very “seasick” on a large Chinese manufactured machine.

Patty, I wish you the best of luck with the Air Reflex. What price did they wind up giving you for it, if I may ask? And they still have not shipped it? I guess they must have had quite a few sales due to the spring specials they put on, then. Good show; maybe some more Wave owners will start posting somewhere on the internet.

As for me, I would like to see some discussion of the math behind all of this. Equations and that sort of thing. Can anyone here enlighten me? I can see that there would be greater than one G accelerations for one of these platforms, because the platform "kicks" you into the air slightly, and when you're then dropping back down (at earth's one G) it then "kicks" you up again, meeting you on the way down, thus exceeding one G. I have a little trouble picturing how one might get to 16G like that, but maybe I can get there if anyone can help me out a bit with an equation. While we're at it, can I see math to tell me what acceleration one might experience from, let's say, a 3 foot box jump? bounding 2 feet up and down on a mini trampoline? Running up or down hill? Is there a website that explains such things?

Hi

First thanks to one and all for the responses to my last post

I have been trying out the HP Pivotal machine (I am quite impressed so far ),. One of the poses they promote is a one foot lunge with placing the foot in the centre of the plate. Galileo directed the foot should be slightly to one side. I initially thought the central  position would be to gentle due to the amplitude, however the result was the  muscles had a harder workout. My theory for what it’s worth is the that you double the frequency by both sides of the plate influencing the foot, but with a reduced amplitude, therefore giving the muscles a totally different mode of training..

Am I on the right lines with my reasoning

Kevin A

Lloyd,

I am anxiously awaiting shipment of my Wave Air Reflex.  I have been reading all the great articles you have on this site...thank you for all the sharing of your knowledge. 

I was just wondering why Wave did not make your favorite list.  I went with the Wave based on your recommendation..  I was just curious about this. 

Also, you might remember my husband has spastic paraplegia...has to use a walker for balance...he doesnt stand up straight...three back surgeries also.  Should I start him on the safety program...and at what frequency.....I saw that either you or someone said alternating frequencies is not best or needed...but the Wave is set up with the built in programs to do just that...any thoughts about this....sorry cant up in qustion marks or apostraphes.  Note  my hubby has GREAT upper body strength...just  no leg or back strength.

What I was (kind of) wondering was if slightly different frequencies would hit different muscle groups slightly differently, perhaps due to the differences in overall length of a particular muscle. For example, a typical quadriceps muscle is way longer than a typical biceps or triceps muscle. Kind of like different length guitar strings making different notes when you pluck them. Maybe I am way off on the way I am trying to picture in my head just how the energy is affecting a given muscle. But if it is actually a matter of hitting a resonant frequency, I would tend to think there'd be a difference between different length muscles. Does that make sense? Of course, maybe I am all wrong and the frequency is not all that significant after all.

43hz –commenting as a user of machines (not technical)

It’s the most comfortable setting on high energy lineal machines (steel, heavy) - gives a deep intensity of muscle contraction (it hurts, its real training) yet an overall “smooth” movement.

Lower fq feels rough and uncomfortable, it just makes me not want to use the machine. Some (below 30) fq’s feel soft but make me feel tummy sick with instant headache within 30 seconds (and I am a long time user so used to the feel of machines)

 My observations are just my perception on steel machines high energy lineal, not necessarily what the machine is really doing – for example – 30hz does give training results and good muscle contraction and a study recommends it .

Safety – matching the body fq’s – spine etc. Lineal machines only - not to cause any bad effects (and I’m not sure how valid this problem really is) the lineal machine must run at 30hz or above. Do you trust some companies on this? What if the machine was not working to specs and was actually running at 27hz (into a possibly dangerous zone).

In the studio we have a good quality, medium energy lineal machine, plastic (fibreglass) platform. At 43hz is comfortable and gives a good workout even though the muscle contraction isn’t as intense as using a high energy machine.

Because the target is the girth of the muscle and positions are static I can’t see any reason to use different fq’s on lineal machines. Maybe for massage – into “fat” cells but then you get confusion when machines are used in a commercial setting.

ON PIVOTAL MACHINES

Changing the fq is needed as there’s more body movement. A push-up is done at a lower speed than a squat. A plank position also – despite what others will tell you. I use 22hz on pivotal (on a machine that works to specs) for squats and only about 8hz for push-up. I have a shoulder injury but am strong. Remember you are moving side to side. Some will manage push-up higher.

I’ve noticed that some pivotal machine marketers suggest highest fq’s (27h usually) for advanced users. Funny thing is that this mimics a lineal platform – the type of muscle contraction is shakier (in my experience) but similar to lineal. Maybe this is “the best of both worlds” but I’ve yet to be convinced to change my training to a pivotal machine.

I have seen that you tend to use 43 Hz for everything, but I am curious about something. Have you ever noticed any difference in optimal frequency (going by "feel") for different muscles or body parts? Is 43 Hz just as optimal, in your opinion, for say triceps as it might be for quadriceps? How about for calf muscles or abdominals? Has anyone ever noticed a better result at some other frequency than 43 Hz for lineal (or whatever it might be for pivotal)? Do certain positions yield greater results going by "feel" than other ones?

Not Lloyd, but that reminds me of that Crazy Fit that does not have the handles. Plastic pivotal made in China (Russia?) I imagine you don't have to worry about damage at that low a frequency, it's just a therapy unit.

Lloyd,

This is me again, sorry for delay. I placed video on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYpeO4s_pXY

This is for home use, but they have for commercial use. There is no data about frequency, but speed is from 1 to 20.

According to my simple calculation level 1 is 2Hz, level 10 is about 7 o r8Hz, level 20 should be about 10 or 12Hz

But the load is unique, because you feel balance training and vibration same time

But Im worry about low vibration damage because of resonance frequency towards human organs like brain, eyes, heart.

What do you think, guys

My regards,

Hi JM, I was the one offered an Air Reflex for 4500, I went with the Contour Plus instead. I am in the US. I believe they have since then raised the price back up to $5500 on the Air Reflex. It was MikeP on here who got that price (4500) originally. If you email Rochelle at Wave and ask her, she may offer you a discount, but I have no idea if one can be had in Australia. Yes Wave is located in Canada.

Hi Everyone

I live in Perth, WA 

Can I purchase a WAVE Air Reflex in Australia

Also where did people purchase the WAVE for 4500. Was it from Canada

Thanks

Anyone else just get a lot of emails from Josh Hayon and Hypergravity? I was under the impression he was or was nearly out of business? Instead I visited his website and it appears they have like 17 different models? (over kill much?) Has anyone had more recent experience with their products than what was related earlier?

(Oh and Lloyd, he claims to build his own motors, just FYI. Believe it?)

Ok, now you have got me thinking. I got a couple questions, because I am doing some guess work here:

How does a company like say Power Plate or Wave do the low/high amplitude settings? Is it done by having two motors and just activating one at a time, say one with a heavier weight attached to achieve higher amplitude? (Just my first guess.)

What kind(s) of motor(s) are best suited for this kind of application? DC or AC? Would something like those concrete mixer motors be usable, or is there a reason why not?

What is a good material to use for an isolator?

(Of course, anything that's a trade secret can be held back/emailed to me as preferred; notnospam@gmail.com is the address). And any other hints anyone would care to drop, fire away. Of course what I am looking at here would be lineal; I have no idea how to build a pivotal. Maybe I should take the Crazy Fit apart; it's been knocking lately on the left hand side...

Mike M

Don’t get me wrong – I was just having a little fun; you’ll soon get used to our Kiwi ways. Like Lloyd says – you have gained a huge amount of understanding in a very short time. My jest was an acknowledgment of that.

Of course I have bias toward the machines brand that I use BUT I love trying others and being able to recommend them to people who have no access to Vibra-Train.