Thanks Lloyd.  It is nice to know Gunnar reads this site.  I looked at www.vibraflex.com and Gunnar is listed under users as having more than one Vibraflex.  I bet Vibraflex loved Gunnar mentioning Power Plate in the magazine article. 

John Weatherly

I glanced at a recent issue of Muscle and Fitness at a grocery store.  Gunnar Peterson, who trains celebrities in Beverly Hills, CA, says in the magazine that vibration training is the greatest exercise innnovation in many years.  Gunnar plugs Power Plate in the magazine article.  This seems odd because Gunnar endorses Vibraflex on their site and is not on the Power Plate site.  Perhaps he uses both platforms.  Or, another possibility could be Power Plate gave him a financial incentive to plug Power Plate.  Regardless, it seems worded to equate vibration training with Power Plate in the article.  Power Plate is the only company Gunnar is quoted as mentioning in the magazine

John Weatherly

Found on this site:
==================================================== start =======
"A typical home unit produces 3G of force . This means the object being moved becomes 3 times its own weight while being slung around by the vibration. A typical home unit weights about 60kg. So (3 x 60Kg = 180Kg). The unit running by itself is like a 180Kg person jumping up and down on your floor."
==================================================== end =======


Based on tests in the review below, the max force of DKN machine is 12G. So that would be ((60Kg+80Kg)*12)=1680Kg (when loaded) spread on area of 85cm*50cm. That would destroy the building, no ceiling is built to handle such pressure. Our IT company is in old industrial building and I know when we moved the server in, its weight of 600Kg was veeeery close to the limit that floors can handle.

http://www.vibrationtrainingdevice.com/XG10.htm

So there must be a mistake somewhere, but where...? :-}

Lloyd usually answers questions specific to machines but as he’s busy in the mortuary he asked me to reply.

Demon and Capekidnappers(Jackie)

Here’s a link to an article that explains about the levels and types of machines

http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/machine-reviews

And another about Vibration Training machines – frequency and amplitude and more

http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/the-big-secret-lineal-companies-do-not-want-you-to-know

Demon, for now, to have a high quality machine you have to pay top $’s for it.  Materials like solid steel and the quality motors are expensive but last almost forever without breakdowns. 

Lymphoedema is NOT only caused by an excess of fat cells ie..poor diet SAD etc.  It can also be a consequence  emanating from an horrific , long term mistreated and misdiagnosed iaccidental injury- oh to live in the USA where I would now be a multi-millionaire

And just in case you are wondering.. I am a forever 100 percent...LIVING RAW FOOD eater.

Agape, Jackie. New Zealand

I have a Ni-trac 7 at home  we have no Vibration training centre around where I live so have had to settle for second best. Is this one of the bad  guy machines..I note it was made in Taiwan and has a CE label on the bottom

Demon

The Pro is more powerful than the junior but the junior is also able to put muscles through some pain.  It feels similar to a vibrogym.  It is a great machine for the price I think.  But Pro has a bigger platform which is a plus.  But...   you will struggle to put either of these on a first floor.  Your neighbours below will hate you. 

Wow, 5 levels... Is there an article about this on this site? I am wondering which machines belong to which level and what defines those levels. Is it correct to say that with the same freq and amplitude it is the curve of 'force distribution' during one platform lift what separates good machines from bad machines? I mean, the more non-linear, the more "surprising" for body it is, the more muscles react?

BTW What makes these machines so expensive? Is there a chance that in the future with larger quantities produced even good machines will get cheaper?

Thanks folks  and thanks Dean, that is useful.  I hate to think that we would have caused it so glad to read that.

Lloyd, how many levels is there? Is Bodyshaker PRO different level than JUNIOR?

Dear Philippa
 
Lymphedema is just a symptom, not a disease. Clinically, we can divide it in two groups- transitory, and prolong.
Transitory lymphoedema can be caused by two things. Lack of physical activity, such is swelling of ankles during long flight, or long standing, which is resolved by light exercise, or elevation of extremities. Sudden increase of physical activity, such as long walking, running, or in our case VT - such edema is very short lasting, and usually resolves after minutes, rarely hours.
Prolong lymphedema is a sign of disease. It can last for days or months, and it doesn't resolve after physical activity or rest. Often it is caused by venous disorders, hart disease, or some other systematic diseases which involve changes on arterial or capillar blood vessels. In this conditions lymphatic system can not cope with that volume of liquid, so retention is in place, which we see as edema. Since lymphatic system is designed in such a way that lymphatic weasels collect fluid, than transport it to a nearest lymhatic node, and from that point through another vessel to next node, and all the way to the chest, where lympha is finally entering in to a blood stream, any obstruction on a node level can cause lymphoedema, and there is a long list of possible causes of that obstruction.
 
As you can see, VT can not cause prolong limphoedema, but can provoke it, if there is underlining disease, or condition previously undiagnosed, and with no simptoms. The same situation is with every intensive physical activity.
 

I should add she has not done any VT for the last 6 months

Hi Di

Yes know we have found VT good for lymphedema in the past.  Just that one of our customers developed it  severely after training for a while with us and thinks it could be linked to VT.  She still has it  now about 6 months later  cant even do gardening now it is that painful.  I said I would be  very surprised if this were the cause but would like to find out more about whether this is a possibility. 

Dean, the crucial question now is whether you count your Bodyshakers amongst high-energy or mid-energy machines ;-)

I'd love to test all machines personally but in my country there is not a single Galileo, Vibrogym or Bodyshaker. Just Powerplates all over the place.

Demon

Most people do not get sweaty from using Vibration Machines as it doesn’t raise the heart rate significantly.  People who are quite obese and sometimes newcomers who feel stressed get a little hot, that’s all. Just a few people have their blood pressure rise (their face gets flushed and red) so we get them to rest a minute or two if this happens.

We have an air-conditioned studio, usually kept at 17degrees C so that summertime training is comfortable.  People train in their regular business clothes or in sports clothes and we don’t have showers. 

Also, like Dean said, we use the 10-15 minute Vibra-Train Safety program which consists of static positions on the high force lineal, Vibra-Train, machines.  We don’t incorporate regular exercise movements – you don’t need to with high force machines and it could be dangerous.

Philippa

Lymphoedema is retention of fluid in fat cells or the skin. Vibration Training can help by improving blood circulation and the muscle contractions around the fat cells help get things moving again.  (It’s always worth knowing the cause though but I’m presuming a person with this would have seen a doctor).  Do not place the affected part directly on the machine though and as always the client should drink water after training.

You asked if Vibration Training can cause this.  In a few new customers and those who come infrequently I’ve seen it in the wrist or forearm area as a localised swelling that can take around 20 minutes to settle.

Demon

In our studio we follow safety program, proposed by Lloyd. The problem with it is that it is only effective on hi energy lineal machines. That is why on low or medium energy machines you are required to do dynamic excercises, othervise wou would feel the vibration, but it would not be much of a training.

There are some hairdressers in my country also playing around with vibration plates, mostly Powerplates. The problem with them is that they do not undarstand even a basic physiology, so they promise results that can not be achieved with that technology. This situation proved to be good for our studio, because there are people interested in vibration training, bud disapointed with lack of results on previous attempts.

Sweting during the training on vibration plates in individual. Some of our customers swet a lot, but most of them do not swet, or swet just a little. You should train on hi energy lineal machine, only by safety program, 4 times a week during one month, and see the changes on your body. I was impresed only after a week, thanks to Phlippa.

Also, I advise you to try different machines. Perhaps a basic squat on every one of them. Even without any expirience, you will be able to tell the difference only after one minute.

Dean, do your clients need to exercise on Bodyshakers like they did on PowerPlates to get good results? Or simply keeping in the right position is enough?

BTW I found one hairdressing parlor in PRG having also DKN XG10 fot their clients. I wanted to test it without dealer watching me all the time. I asked the lady how do they have it with showers, when clients get sweaty on the machine... she told me they don't have showers there, because their (female) clients *don't get sweaty on the machine* 8-O

What is the purpose of such machine then???

I did a search on PubMed and nothing came up Philippa.  I have seen anecdotal  information on this.  On another note, there was an interesting study out of France on basketball players and a month of WBV in addition to normal basketball training which showed increased isometric  knee extensor strength and squat jump performance with a thrice weeks WBV protocol lasting 20 minutes.  The study was in the March 17 JSCR and is by Colson et al.  The abstract is at www.nlm.nih.gov, click on PubMed, and use vibration training as search words.

John Weatherly

Are there any articles about Lymphedema and vibration training . I remember reading one Im sure but cant seem to find it.  Are there any circumstances where VT might  cause this condition. 

The Fitvibe is nice looking machine, and there is use for it in therapy. But for training, I dont think so. I tryed it on last Medica fair in Dusseldorf, and I was not impressed, especially after expiriencing Vibra train, Vibrogym, and Bodyshakers.There has to be my post somwhere here, comparing some of machines displayed on that fair. 

With hi energy lineal machines there is always room for therapy, if one knows what to do, but with low or medium energy machines there is no room for training, at least that is my opinion.

There has been four weeks since I opened a studio in Croatia with Bodyshakers. We are allready overbooked, and most enthusiastic customers are those who previously tryed low or medium energy machines, such as Powerplate.

The previous post is for Demon who asked for a recommendation for a machine for serious training, not only massage.

English translation: they recommend FitVibe, Professional vibrating platform produced by the Belgian Gymn Uniphy, the company who produce for the market of medical equipment. He says FitVibe platforms are certified TUV certificate and are certified for medical operation, so there is guaranteed efficiency and use.  Price includes transportation, installation and coaching. FitVibe Smart series is designed for home use; there is a touch screen which displays pre-selected exercise program so it’s not necessary to learn about frequency and amplitude.

The post is the typical sales advertising wording used by FitVibe so it’s just marketing but it is one of the machines Demon said he was considering.

I have used a FitVibe Excel – the gym version with more force than the home machine.  I found it inferior to the high force machines that I’ve used, Vibra-Train, BodyShaker, and VibroGym and the pre-selected program with its picture display was more of a hindrance than a help for serious training.

A couple more studies showing positive benefits of vibration are at www.nlm.nih.gov, click on PubMed, and use vibration exercise as search words to read the abstracts.  Von Stengal et al. showed WBV reduced falls in a population of postmenopausal women.  Gusi et al. found vibration exercise to improve balance in patients with fibromyalgia.

John Weatherly

Zdravím,

pro nejlepší porovnání doporučuji vyzkoušet jednotlivé typy, zjistit trvanlivost, hlučnost, zjistit si další doplnkové služby, prostě nekupovat zajíce v pytly.

Cena Přístroju FITVIBE zahrnuje.. profesionální vibrační plošinu vyrobenou Belgickou společností Gymna Uniphy, výrobce pusobí na trhu zdravotnických zařízení přes cřtyřicet let, plošiny fitvibe jsou certifikovány TUV certifikátem a  jsou certifikovány pro zdravotnický provoz, tudíž je zde zaručena efektivita a bezbečnost použití. Dále cena zahrnuje dopravu, instalaci a zaškolení kvalifikovaným trenérem. Série Fitvibe Smart je určena pro domácí použití,je zde dotykový displej na ktery se zobrazuje předem navolený cvičební progam např. celulitida, neni třeba se tedy učit nejvhodnější nastavení frekvencí  a amplitudy. přeju štastnou volbu při výběru plošiny.