I have been working out on my machine for a few weeks now.  I can definitely see some muscle buisling in my shoulders and arms and chest but I am not losing any fat and I think I am either over training or not eating enough or both.  I typically do 3 sets of each as follows

squats 60 sec 40hrz

lunge 40 at 40

back 40 at 40

chest usually 6 sets 40 at 4 with 2 different exercises

bicepts 60 sec at 40 with resistance

tricept 40 at 40

abs 40 at 40

I do this every other day with weekend off

Can you help

Ok, here's a quick question for anyone. Choose one of the following, and tell me why you pick that machine:

Wave Contour for $1550
Nitrofit Deluxe for $2250
Hypervibe Performance for $2600
Wave Contour Plus for $3600 but you must wait 2 months for delivery
Wave Air Reflex for $4500

Now I'll sit back and let anyone who cares to help me decide. Not to be anti-China or anything; I'm looking for bang for a buck. Wanted for both training and physio and therapeutic purposes.

Well, the chiro set the machine and walked away. Never saw him again. So I did the whole thing completely unsupervised. I could have stood on my head, he wouldn't have noticed.

About me, I guess I should tell a bit about why I want this. I am a guy, 54, 6 foot 4 about 225 lbs who is a "weekend warrior" type (play hoops twice a week) who has some health issues that are not that unusual when you get to my age. To wit, I could stand to lose 10-20 lbs of belly fat because it's adding to my two main problems - I have a runner's knee (this is where the patella does not track properly over the distal end of the femur and instead rubs bone on bone, pretty painful), and also I just got diagnosed as having severe sleep apnea. That problem results in insomnia, which is supposed to be helped by using these machines (relaxation) and excess weight also contributes to sleep apnea. Oh, and I am hypothyroid.

I should mention that I have a local friend who is the reason why I got interested in this - he has got one of those "Crazy Fit" cheapo machines recently and is letting me try it out. He got it just as a lark because it was only like $200 and, well, it started making funny noises the first week and we don't think it's going to last very long. But I have been using it a bit while it still works. And I am getting the idea it might be helping the runner's knee some. I saw a PT for several months with that, and he tried to get my vastus medialis muscle stronger during that time; I think maybe the machine has done more for that than he did. But a better machine might fix it (nothing else has).

So this was a chance to try out a top line machine (the Pro Elite) but I am thinking maybe the chiro kind of short circuited my workout by making the machine do some routine where it cycles frequencies up and down from 30-45 Hz and back again. Because 30 Hz felt like a break to me, intensity wise. I would not have set it like that if it were my machine. Yes I TRIED to do 60 second poses but I don't think I can hold a full plank yet for 60 seconds at 45 Hz, I have not done much upper body on the Crazy Fit, I've been concentrating on the knee instead. And I didn't find upper body poses real fun on a pivotal anyway, I think I need to work into that gradually. I'm built more like a runner, not a huge amount of upper body strength just yet. I need to work on that, but the knee is my priority right now. And I have to get a CPAP machine for the sleep apnea. Hard to do fitness work when you can't sleep right...

As regards machines, I have offers from Wave to get the Air Reflex for $4500, the Contour Plus for $3600 (7+ weeks backordered), or the Contour for $1550! And I read the specs and it just doesn't seem like there's $3000 difference between the 3 machines. Maybe there is, wish I could see them up close! I did, finally, find 4 youtube videos from Wave but they don't show the two machines that are available, running, instead it's just a lot of talking.

Hi Mike M

Lloyd will reply to you but I just want to clarify a few points.  You say you did 60 second poses – that was full 60 second, yes?  - not 15 sec.  pose and 15 sec. rest, which I see in the specs documentation. 

When I get athletic guys in the studio here some hardly handle the first 60 seconds; others seem unfazed by the whole thing until about 4-5 minutes in (that’s 5x 60second static poses- have you looked at the Safety Program or Vibra-Train on YouTube) then they show fatigue, complain or have to take rests between positions and by the end (which is only 6-8 poses to start) they are really failing with fatigue (different machines here of course).  Only rarely do I get anyone who says, “that wasn’t too bad” and if that happens we have “ways” (insert *wicked grin* here) to make sure they get a full workout – higher level machines and/or extra “guy” poses like the “full body triceps dip”.  In fact it’s the strongest guys who do their trial and don’t come back as it’s just too hard for them (high muscle contracts strongly) – those who do become regular clients see amazing gains on top of their already high fitness. 

Seeing your review – which seems just moderate – I wish I could zap machines around the world – it will happen in the next few years and then the other companies will be forced to catch up.

The Pro Elite sounds like it will work for you if you use a solid program like the Vibra-Train one and ensure perfect position – that’s what gives real results. You can double up on time – 120 second poses when you are proficient but perfect position is way more important

Now – about the calorie burn –  Personal Trainers using Vibration Machines for 10 minutes say that the “perceived effort” and tiredness they feel is like being in the gym for an hour or more – so people attach that to advertising, adding it that it must therefore burn about 400-1000 calories.  what you are getting is an increase in metabolic rate over the next approx 36 hours. Then you do it all over again – and your metabolism stays charged.  Fairly rapidly (if done correctly) your muscle quality increases and to maintain that your body burns more calories – It’s resistance training!

You still need to have a Cardio component to your exercise program for heart health. That can be full on or as simple as short walks, exercycle or swimming for people less able.

Mike M

Let me be the first to say that the Wave or any machine for that matter will not build cardio. I have trained in MMA for quite some time and had great cardio. I have been using only the wave and some TRX to test this out for 2 months. I must say that as far as my body and the way I look I am very pleased. Now, I went to train cardio...Cave man training... and I could tell that my cardio took a dip. One thing to be certain of is just because you see people with abs and a great build does not mean that they have great cardio. Anyone who says you will burn a ton of calories on the Wave...Using as example... either is lying or not very educated in the fitness field.

By the way, you would be better off paying the money for the Air Reflex. It is the same as the Elite but with a 4 inch smaller base and a dialed down screen. You will not be sorry. The contour however I think you would regret over time. That is just my opinion.

Wow. Well I have to say that the Wave Pro Elite (which the chiro has TWO of) is a very impressive machine. That said I am not sure it is all that. Here's why.

My chiro (who I know from before, and I must say, he is IMO a bit of a dodgy character, as are some chiros, but for all that, I suppose he's ok) set the machine to give me 15 minutes and the machine was set to high intensity oscillating up and down ranging from a low of 30 Hz to a high of 45 Hz. Mostly I did the partial squat pose as I think my upper body is a bit weak to be doing 60 second poses on this machine at first try. He told me it would burn 400-600 calories in the 15 minutes. I don't think so; it sure didn't feel like it. I never broke a sweat.

The first pose I held was the partial squat and I didn't have too hard a time holding it for more than 60 seconds. I do want to say that as it was oscillating up and down it was not as hard as, say, it would have been if it were instead set to 45 Hz and left there. 30 Hz felt much easier to me than 45. But 45 was not that bad. I also did a partial pushup and a plank and I stood on my toes to work my calf muscles. I also did some partial one legged squats. On all poses I was trying to rock about a bit to find the perfect, most intense angle to hit the muscle being worked harder. Figuring out what that angle is will be a work in progress, I imagine.

In a nutshell, I'd like one, but I'm still not certain I want one $4500 worth. The Pro Elite is a very elegant and handsome machine; not much to find wrong with it, with a very large platform.

The 6/12G rating (not KN! $()*%^!) is for the commercial Waves ONLY, I was told, as they are the only ones tested as yet; those are the Pro Elite and the Air Reflex. I have to wonder how much weaker could one expect the Contour and Contour Plus to be than that? These are all heavier than average machines after all (if that matters); the lightest one is 175 lbs.

Right now I am sort of leaning toward the Contour model. I know, I know, China etc. Plastic. But I see maybe 90% of the functionality of the Air Reflex at what, 40% the price? I don't know; still thinking about it...

Mike M

Please let me know what you think about the Wave after you get to experience it at the Chiro office.  We are still debating the investment due to the fact that we can not experience one before buying.

Looking forward to your review of the Wave.

Well folks, I have had a lucky break. I found out a local chiro has a Wave machine in his office right here in this town! Imagine that. So I am going over there in a couple hours to try it out. Once I've done that I should have a much better idea if this is something I want to invest in.

Hmm well I am a bit frustrated with the people at Wave giving me their stats in G's and not in KN force, since apparently G's are not that informative. I rather wish everyone would start talking in the same or comparable terminology so we can compare apples to apples. I am getting the idea from Lloyd that a heavier machine like his moving just a little (like 0.7mm) is better than a lighter machine moving a greater distance. Correct? So amplitude can actually be a bad thing, or it's at least better to be able to turn it down. Has anyone researched and found out what the relative effects are on, let's say, white muscle fibers of these different variables such as KN force, frequency, G forces, amplitude, and so on? If so what were the findings? I've seen some people claiming that 27 Hz speed as an optimum; what did they base that one on?

Sorry about that last message, it got pasted incorrectly.

I say, when they list a pivotal machine as running at 28 Hz, does that mean it pivots 28 times thus lifting each foot only 14 times? And lineal would be lifting both feet at one time, say 30 to 50 times? I recall seeing the accelerometer glued to one side of the platform, and then the article listed most of the pivotal frequencies as under 15 - was that just for the one side? So we should double the result they gave for the frequency on the pivotals? Or am I totally wrong?

How about these? I am not sure what amplitude they offer; it doesn't seem to say.

http://www.activeforever.com/p-26092-vibeplate-exercise-vibration-plate.aspx?cm_mmc=nt-_-exercise-equipment-_-vibeplate-exercise-vibration-plate-_-51906Patty  - our exchanges have been email. You have to be careful, one the email addresses on the website listed does not work. The other one, to a lady named Rochelle, does work. I have been conversing with her.

Lloyd,

Thank you for your advice and info on the Wave.  We are giving serious consideration to the machine now...due to my husbands condition...it would be worth the investment ...especially if we can get the special price.  I will be sure to tell Jasper that you recommended them.

I will let you know how it turns out...and once we get a WBV machine ...and we see how my husband responds to the therapy,  I will post his progress. 

I really appreciate your commitment to WBV and to keeping people in the industry honest....please keep doing what you are doing to help consumers.  Thanks again.

Lloyd,

My husband’s spasticity is very severe in his legs…also causes unusual lift and swing in his arms. I finally found some you-tube discussion about the Wave and some of the positive results they are seeing with patients with this type of problem. My question is - would my husband need to use the machine on the lower setting - such as massage - to help with his condition?  Also when you say he needs to reach complete fatique....is that higher frequency or staying on the platform for a longer time period

I see that one benefit of getting a Wave is that they offer lots of support after you purchase which would be very helpful in my husband’s case.

I could not really find any real demonstration of people using the Wave to exercise…but what little I could see…it did not seem that their bodies did not appear to vibrate as much as other do on other types of machines. Is this the case with the Wave?

Would you recommend the Wave Air Reflex…or do you think that is more machine than we need?

Also…is this machine more for therapy…or would it be good for fitness / exercise also?

Again…thank you for all your help.

Mike M - thank you for the tip on getting a discount from Wave. We are talking over the benefits of spending a bit more and getting the Wave Air Reflex - if we could get it for $4,500. Did they call you back with the offer…or was it by e-mail?

Thanks MikeP. I have since then gotten an offer from them same as you got. I am mulling it over. Really I did not want to sink $4500 in any machine. My idea was to spend not over $4000, and the less the better. After hearing about your deal, it was my fond hope that some similar discount on the Contour Plus could be had. Didn't know it was so popular, and backordered.

I am also trying to get some hard specs out of them. Did they ever tell you anything as regarding that? I want to know specs such as G ratings or KN or something that I can take and compare to other brands that are out there. I know there is more to it than that, but I am stuck in a location where I literally can't go and look at anything unless I get lucky and find another individual who bought one.

They tell me that there's an independent university study that's ongoing now but not yet published that measured the Wave unit as outputting 2-6G when on low and 6-12G when on high intensity. Did they tell you that? I am now trying to find out which "Wave unit" that was, since they are selling 4 different ones. I also asked which parts of the Contour are plastic (the
skirting) and where is it made (China). The others are from Canada, and they say the Contour will be also, soon. If the above G specs are only on one unit, I want to know what they are on ALL of them, before I decide what to buy. Seems like common sense to me.

MIke M

Yes they did tell me 5000.00. I decided to not take that as the answer that I wanted. I was calling about the Contour Plus as well. What I would suggest is that you tell them that you know a few people that got the Air Reflex for 4500 with free shipping. I would say that since you do not have the product that I want I wouldnt mind spending the 4500 for the step up. I look at it from a sales prospective 500 is not much to a company but to us little guys it is a considerable amount of money. Try again.

You will not be sorry with the product. It is an awesome machine. Remember this too, you get what you pay for with any product. Unless you get scammed into buying a powerplate. HaHa

I am feeling really stupid today. I am reading the Independent Vibration Test pdf file which lists 18 machines’ specs and I’m having trouble making sense of it. Can someone give me some equations that relate them to things I know from my physics courses that I have taken in the past, so that they make sense? Here’s what seems odd to me:

In the line where it lists the Hypervibe’s highest speed settings, it lists highest velocity as just over 1000 mm/sec, which is around 1 meter/sec. Now, I know that under 1G of acceleration an object accelerates at about 9.8 meters per second, per second.

So you see my problem with the numbers there, and not just for this machine, but all of them. How does a velocity of this small amount translate to almost 24 G of acceleration? What am I missing?