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Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-04-29 20:27:07
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Hello Casey... A few points.
(1) The larger Steel Wave units are what we call high quality Medium Energy Lineal machines. They do not get much better in that category and Wave are a trustworthy company.
(2) No a good quality High Energy Lineal unit should last indefinitely. Maybe new bearings every 10 years and servicing to the electronics every so often.
(3) The 3 years thing came from companies selling cheap and shoddy equipment calling it "commercial" but them actually only being slightly above home machine level ( Power Plate the worst offender and others followed ) .
Read this for an overall idea of the issues in our industry you may have heard about.....
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Casey Johnson |
Posted On:2011-04-29 19:30:08
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My studio is looking into buying vibration machines and I read that the life span of full commercial high energy linear machines is 3 year+. Does this mean I need to buy new machines every 3 years?
I have seen very litte review of Wave and would appreciate feedback on their machines and which of their models are in the full commercial high energy range. Thanks.
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Arron |
Posted On:2011-04-27 13:42:25
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Brice from Sydney. Every company says their machine is the best and does it all. Why are you surprised at that. Surely you are not that naive.
This website is not a marketing site it is well know for giving a more balanced view and has lots of logical information to help the poor public see through the stretching of the truth by advertisers. Not trainers who should already know better.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-04-27 12:38:00
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You see Brice the problem we have is you dare to come on to this site, to give us your "professional" opinion. Only to end up knowing less than is printed on most cheap brochures. I have customers who would put your basic knowledge to shame.
And it would seem you charge people to use Vibration Training as part of your studio ? How exactly does that happen. I mean you are speaking like someone who is stuck in 2003. I really do not think you are a trainer, as it belies belief you would be so far behind us ( I am a mortician not a PT ) , so you should know loads more than me , not the other way around..
That is really screwed up.
Did you even read any of the articles on this site before opening up your mouth. I mean it does say.....
" Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you
If you had read any of my work you would know I have been advocating Pivotal and Lineal machines ( of all grades ) to be used on studio floors since day one. And I practice what I preach. Mike Hair was the first person to have a very wide mixture of products from different companies on a studio floor. In the world.
Show some respect and do some research next time.
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MikeHair |
Posted On:2011-04-27 09:09:01
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Brice from Sydney,
Hi...I have been in this industry for over 5 years running my own studio. When we first started there was nothing on
the internet about this technology except Vibra-Train, and because we did not understand the difference between
pivotal and lineal we went for the cheaper option of pivotal (which in the end turned out more expensive) but that's a
whole new story.
The machines we originally bought were not made with plastic parts so where of reasonable quality, but one thing we
noticed very quickly was that people plateaued after about three months.
Yes they did help kick start weight loss with some people for a short period of time, but if we wanted to stay in
business we needed something that would take them to the next level and beyond. Now we were seeing up to 90
people a day, but when that number started to dwindle we knew something was not right.
That's when I contacted Lloyd Shaw by phone and asked for his help, as my whole family's lively hood was at stake.
After a few phone calls and a trip too Auckland to see how Lineal technology worked I knew my pivotal machines were
never going to carry our studio into a long term business.
Now I am not trying to convince you that one is better than the other that is not my job, what I am trying to teach you is
that if you think what you have is the be all and end all of this industry, you are seriously in trouble my friend.
Now I know pride can be a killer of many a person, especially if we think we are right, trust me it took a lot of pride
swallowing to pick up the phone and call my opposition (Lloyd), but it was the best decision I ever made as I am still in
business today with a rapid increasing customer base.
Our next step is a move to Oz, not sure when that will happen but it will happen and as a friendly word of warning to
all, If you have not positioned yourself in this industry and set up your studio with full commercial high energy lineal
machines you are in trouble.
(remember I have run high speed pivotal, medium and high energy lineal so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to results) Not like flashy marketers that have no experience, except for selling their grandmother a 2 bob watch for hundreds......
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Di Heap |
Posted On:2011-04-27 08:25:14
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Brice
I’ve taken a nice approach – tried to put up education links and explanations but no more –
I’m not currently selling any machines. There’s never marketing bs from me – I’m concerned that people get accurate information EVEN if that means supporting a company in general but differing in specifics.
Where did I say that TZone machines are no good for weightloss? Oh and please - the term is “fat-loss” – go research the difference and see what really counts! You asked about a particular machine. I said I wouldn’t recommend it for fat-loss. Can’t you read? – I also said maybe but only for beginners and that it does help mobility!
I work with heavy vibration machines every day – I’m gonna tell it like it is! Advertising does exaggerate, that’s different to the outright lies that companies use to promote their brand. TZone in Oz is cleaning up, in this they deserve support. The US “brother”, not yet.
Why do you go on about “weight-loss” ? – that’s a very important part of the usefulness of Vibration Machines but there’s lots more too. I have clients that have amazing, lifesaving, results in fat-loss as the studio I work at has high energy machines designed with supportive handlebars and uses a program specifically designed with safety first. They are lineal and yes I think they are best – I said in my opinion – that’s not marketing, especially as you probably have no access to the brand. I’ll send people to any specific machine (not necessarily brand but machine) that they can access that will help them.
Seriously Brice if you had the balls to put up your full real name we’d be more open to you. I was at the Oz Fitness expo in Sydney last weekend; it was crawling with personal trainers. You have to be gutsy and stand out from the crowd! I can’t send people to you, Brice in Western suburbs, to use the TZone machines you have or other training – and I get emails and phone calls about Oz very often. You’ve come in here to provoke, that was stupid!
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Brice from Sydney |
Posted On:2011-04-27 00:16:54
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Loyd I didnt admit I didnt know how it works, I said you guys probably know more than me. I shouldnt have spoken so soon.
You lot support T zone Australia and you recomend them on your website, but on the other hand tell me that there machines are not good for weight loss, even though the CardioTech website says they are. You lot also tell me CardioTech is not the same as T zone, but the CardioTech website even says that CardioTech is a division of T zone and the Canada and Australian companies are run by brothers.
Call me uneducated. hrrmmm
Good luck with your confusing marketing here. What a crock.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-04-26 17:05:27
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Brice....
Read this to understand what we aspire to do....
http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/innovation-what-vibra-train-represents
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-04-26 12:57:09
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Brice..
If you are a "trainer". Have owned and promoted a Vibration Machine for 2 years, but admit you don't even know how it works. You are part of the industries problem. If you do not know the basic differences between machines. You are also part of the problem. I mean what chance does the consumer have if people like you are uneducated.
Seriously what trainer recommends something with zero knowledge on the subject. So yes you sound like a salesperson, not a health professional.
High Energy Lineal..... The question you have to ask yourself, is why were these designed and built. If the previous units did it all and were the best. In fact why are better units designed all the time by the same companies that sold "the best" last year ?
It is called innovation , a fantastic idea that has given you everything you own. An idea you may never partake in yourself, but that is no reason to not show respect for the process.
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Di Heap |
Posted On:2011-04-26 09:27:49
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Good Morning Brice
There’s no way I’d recommend the small pivotal vibration machines primarily for fat-loss.
They work on circulation increase, relaxation/stress reduction, bone density, lymphatic drainage, etc. Of course they are movement against resistance so they will increase metabolism – but how much is the question. They are Low impact so they also help with injury recovery.
They can improve mobility in obese people so can say they are a starter for fat-loss as long as the machine can cope with the person’s weight and not degrade in performance. The model I think you are referring says max weight 120Kg but I don’t know if it still works to full performance with that weight (many degrade by 80Kg). I have one in the studio and it’s a toy compared with the solid machines (lineal and pivotal) but Its good for for home use for the benefits above and maybe for warm up pre running/cardio and muscle relaxation after. Specifically for fat-loss – only as an absolute beginner machine for people who do no exercise at all. (Does the model on the machine look like she needs fat-loss?)
(Cardio-Tech isn’t same as T Zone but they sell their machines)
Here’s a link to Machine Reviews showing many machines and the group they fall into. http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/machine-reviews
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Brice from Sydney |
Posted On:2011-04-26 00:59:44
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Di I read it thanks. Yes CardioTech are the same as T zone Australia I know. I also saw that they have a new machine on there website.
Is the new machine good for weight loss to. It looks smaller and is cheaper.
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Brice from Sydney |
Posted On:2011-04-26 00:43:03
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Look I admit I probably dont know as much about vibration training as you guys, but I am a good trainer and I get my customers results. No need to use insult.
You support T zone Australia, so you also recommend the use of the T zone machine for vibration training, am I right. I also support T zone Australia and I think they are the best machine for weight loss for the money, yes just my opinion. My clients arnt in wheel chairs and dont have life threatening conditions, so if there are machines that are more effective for that, thats fine. You are telling me I sound like a marketer and then tell me that high energy lineal is way better. Sounds like marketing there to me to. I can get good increase in muscle and strength with the T zone to.
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Di Heap |
Posted On:2011-04-25 15:36:53
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Are you aware of the Cardio-Tech company ?
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-04-25 10:39:39
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Brice ....
( This information has been freely available to everyone for years so no excuses for not knowing it other than pure laziness. )
On Pivotal machines, what Fq the machine actually does is the most important feature distinguishing "Slow Speed Pivotal" from " Higher Speed Pivotals ". Just like as a trainer lifting up 2kg is far different than 10kg. If you really are a trainer, you would agree with this without reservation.
If a machine only goes to 10 hz, it does not really matter how many "settings" it has. It is still a " Slow Speed Pivotal". That is not a bad thing, unless some idiot like you suggests it is the same as one that goes to 20hz.
A Question and a Dare Brice. ...... If you are convinced you are right, and what you have already is "the best" then why do companies keep striving to build or buy better machines with higher functions. Even the people who sell the T-Zone are upgrading their machines and knowledge. You should ring them all up and tell them they shouldn't bother. You Master Vibration Trainer Brice ( who apparently knows sweet fanny all about the basics ) have already decided the standard everyone should aim for.
If you really are a trainer, seriously, shut up and stop embarrassing yourself with your massive lack of general knowledge. It is what we expect from the uneducated consumer. But a trainer who owns a few machines. Scary stuff for your customers.
Come back when you have a clue and stop speaking like a religious fanatic salesperson.
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Di Heap |
Posted On:2011-04-25 02:00:45
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Brice, you're really sounding like a marketer – “Best on the market”, and now “Best for everything advertised by T-Zone”
Definitely not best for everyone – not saying they aren't okay machines of their type. Not the best I have available for my wheelchair clients nor my 160kg clients. I have other machines to choose from. I guess you don't. For training, real muscle quality increase (tested by BCA machine) and strength benefits, using a safe program that regular people can use, high-energy, lineal vibration is way better, in my opinion.
70 speeds over say 12 or even 20Hz (on a well designed machine) – perhaps you'd like to explain how that works and the benefits, not just say its a better range. How do 70 speeds differ in effect and what is each used for? Is the frequency not continuous?
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Brice from Sydney |
Posted On:2011-04-25 00:32:29
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Dear Di
I have found the T zone excellent for everything as advertised by T zone. What effects wouldnt it be great for that other machines would. Why spend a fortune on those expensive machines when the T zone will do the job just as well.
70 speeds have to be better than 20 dont they, for a greater range of speeds.
Im a personal trainer based in the western suburbs.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-04-24 23:40:53
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Brice...
I support any company trying to move forward and making things clearer for the consumer. But no-one gets a free pass. I am always vigilant that companies do not fall back into their old ways.
Unfortunately the global brand T-Zone has been hurt by its own mistakes. They used the internet to get sales and pump up a reputation as "experts" who sell the "best" machine. But you have seen the other side of that sword.
The internet forums never forget.
It is something companies have to learn to put into their risk assessments, and marketers who once got away with BS now have to think twice. Or it could effect future sales for years to come.
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Di Heap |
Posted On:2011-04-24 23:21:09
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Brice, what sort of studio do you have? Chiroprator?, Health and Fitness? Or ??
I visit Sydney every few months and I'm looking for places to train in the city or city east especially open at weekends.
I'm keen to see T-Zone promote it's brand accurately and have a market share based on having quality products – worldwide – and I'm very active in making sure my corner of the world (Australia, NewZealand) cleans up.
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Di Heap |
Posted On:2011-04-24 22:55:28
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I hate reading that any brand of machine is “The Best” on the market because you have to ask, not ever assume, the best at what? Now you are saying great for weightloss but just about every brand says that – you qualify it by saying it costs less. Now you are making sense, you're saying
“T-Zone, in your opinion, is great for weightloss especially taking into account it's price”.
Good, now we've cleared that up I want you to know there's lots more to Vibration Training than weightloss. As a trainer I work with people from pro-athletes through to people with major disabilities (ie in wheelchair) and life-threatening conditions. I can't imagine the T-Zone meeting the needs of all. In fact I use two slightly different machines of one brand (lineal vibration) and two different pivotal machines (one is a T-Zone) for my clients. For a few of the people I train the little T-Zone (VT-8) is the “best” but I definitely wouldn't train on it myself.
And in advertising – T-Zone don't do themselves any good by advertising 70 speed levels comparing that with 20 for other brands because again, what does it really mean? Definitely not 70Hz and anyway, who says 70 speeds are better? Better for what?
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Brice from Sydney |
Posted On:2011-04-24 21:10:55
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Fair enough. I dont care much about what goes on in Canada and USA anyway, so its good to hear you support T zone in Australia. I think people might find that confusing when they read your comments like I did.
To my comments about the best machine on the market. The T zone machines are great for weight loss and cost much less than others, so I think its a fair comment.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-04-24 16:55:57
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Mike...
I think klms statement was in support of us. Calm down.
But yes if someone was going to question anyone's integrity or expertise, they should use their full name. Not hide behind a fake name. But we know from experience, that the dodgy characters that know they are on the wrong side, never do.
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MikeHair |
Posted On:2011-04-24 16:44:26
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klm
If you are going to comment or question somebodys integrity atleast have the balls to post your real name
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-04-24 16:08:42
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So you own a studio Brice...?
Do you agree with this statement about Vibration Training ? Is this how you use or promote the technology ?
" Using vibration technology couldn't be easier. In fact, all you have
to do is stand around, or just sit!"
Or do you get people to follow a strict program. In our studios the machines are useless without a good trainer and a good program.
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klm |
Posted On:2011-04-24 13:48:44
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Brice.Good luck questioning lloyd shaws integrity or expertise.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-04-24 12:08:49
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Sorry your whole statement blows your credibility out of the water. I am speaking facts ( lots of printed and PDF adverts we have kept all claiming 50hz top speed setting )
Direct quote from T-Zone brochure.......... " 50 vibrations per second - not the usual 30, More vibrations mean more muscle reflexes and more results "
Yours opinion is obviously based on zero knowledge as no company will now claim those figures as accurate. You probably purchased a machine yourself not knowing the real specs. And we are meant to take your advice ????.
As for T-Zone the company, maybe one brother is more honest than the other, who knows. Don't care myself for the dynamics of the company.
And your "best machines in the industry" comment puts you at real amateur level. Only a marketer would say something like that.
Eg.... One company that used to advertise fake specs, just got its own machine designed to go up to much higher speeds than the actual old 12 hz. ( but claimed 50hz ) And now know how ridiculous their older claims were. They side with me now on "no fake specs" issues. A company I once attacked outright.
Strange how many companies are now following our work that once rubbished it, but make no mistake, it was a fight every step of the way. We all survived personal and professional attacks to get this far.
You see we do not mind companies making mistakes, but to ignore the issue for 3 years, and keep repeating them ? All that while it hurt the real innovation process that created our industry in the first place , frustrating those who really where trying to build better machines. I mean why bother trying, why not just fake it, right?
Because that is the lesson they where preaching to other companies entering the market. This is what promoting 50hz on Pivotal got you ....
1) Incorrect specs advertised ( that is illegal right ? )
(2) Promotion of those specs as healthy and advantageous
(3) Health professional and Doctors now promoting and willing to argue those speeds on Pivotal acceptable.
(4) The same Doctors doing research , listing incorrect dangerous specs on their research.
(5) Even more uneducated or dishonest competition copying every move you do.
You see we were already have this fight with Power Plate. So it was business as usual for us. Collecting evidence, spreading the truth. All the while leading the way with our own company based on ethics, not just sales.
The people trying to tell the truth and clean the industry up were being shat over every day by these people. Get the message ?
I mean seriously, how can you trust anyone who screws up that massively then pretends it didn't happen ?
Note: Do you realize their claims are all over forums, along with salespeople saying we were lying and being anti-competitive. But we were right all along. So just ditching their old advertising and pretending it didn't happen will not work. They put a fair bit of effort in to create the mess and fight us, so only a far effort will go some way to fixing it.
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Brice from Sydney |
Posted On:2011-04-23 23:32:15
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Ummm I think you need to check your info mate.
T zone Australia and T zone Canada US are the same thing, the owners are brothers. My machines came from one of their leading dealers who is a good mate of mine, and their machines are the best on the market.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-04-23 22:54:01
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We have had problems in the past with companies using fake specs to sell machines ( 50 hz advertised for a Pivotal machine that actually went approx. 12hz ?? ) Not my opinion, engineering fact.
Fake specs for the whole industry and consumer has been bad news, and T-Zone was one of the first companies to do this blatantly. So they get stick for it, and rightly so.
It is important to note that T-Zone Australia readily communicated to us a willingness to tests machines, and promise to advertise correct specs in the future. T-Zone Canada and US. have ignored all requests to face up to the problem so far. Why such different attitudes to consumer protection ?
I think you will find some dealers are more committed than others to this industry. If you found a good one, then that was good luck.
Note: 70% of our hits on this site are from the US. So we try to give general global advice, not just local.
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Brice from Sydney |
Posted On:2011-04-23 21:34:58
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Loyd where do you get off telling people not to trust T zone
I have 2 T zone machines in my studio and I have nothing but good feedback for the machines and for the retailer where I bought them.
Whats your problem with T zone
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-04-23 17:23:12
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Answer.......... As indicated in engineers reports the powerplate PRO 5 (Not MY5) tested at 11G’s unloaded. This alone is not bad. However, there is reason to believe that this would not be the case if it was loaded with someone working out on it. For that reason, and my personal experience along with many others who come to my studio after using the powerplate at a local gym, we rate it as a “middle of the road” lineal platform. Will certainly get the job done and has research behind it, but not the best your money can buy.
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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train |
Posted On:2011-04-21 21:11:42
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This from a website that has written entire articles rubbishing our work and theories on Static VS Dynamic.