Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.
I trust you lloyd because you have opened yourself up to questioning. It is my experience people with something to hide do not do that.
Mike Hair
Posted On:2010-01-17 14:33:04
Ok so now i am a liar am i Tom
I dont know you and frankly i dont care who you are, if you have nothing better to do than accuse people of lying when you are clearly grasping at straws i suggest you go and find a new hobby.....
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Posted On:2010-01-17 13:48:55
If anyone wants to come on and say a particular brand is the "best" then that is allowed.
But if you do not back it up with a particular fact or point that can be discussed then it will be deleted.
"Just because" or " my mate owns it and hes a good guy " is not a valid point.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Posted On:2010-01-17 13:42:57
Now seeing as someone keeps on trying to bring up Elite Fitness ( obvious plug with no real question which is why it is gone ) I will address it here.
(1) I send them sales all the time.
(2) They have nothing I want in return.
(3) They already did lend their expertise and products to Rocket Fitness Ltd who was aiming to be my competition. It failed to take off so why would I worry now ?
(4) I want decent competition. It helps create a solid industry.
(5) N.Z. is only a test market for me. I do not want to just be world famous in N.Z.
(6) They followed me into the market, not the other way around. They even use the name VibrationTrain to try and feed off my efforts.( readers can go and check on that themselves, no links please, ) Even they know my brand is worth more than anything they can come up with.
I am quite sure they will try to take some of my market, but they are in business, its their job. So exactly what am I meant to be worried about ?
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Posted On:2010-01-17 13:13:56
All one liners, off topic or non-sensible comments will be removed.
If you do not know how to debate an issue correctly, please take the time to learn and come back on. We welcome all views but just rambling will not cut it here.
It takes you 30 seconds to type it up, 1 sec for me to delete it. So you are only wasting your own time if you fail to make the effort..
Mike Hair
Posted On:2010-01-17 12:51:16
Tom, what difference does it make what type of machine i was sold? The fact is the guy who sold them to me ripped me off, did not honour the warranty and liquidated his NZ company only days before we had him in court. Every dog has his day and one day his will come.
Honestly Tom, Lloyd would have to be the most honest non greedy person i know, if it was not for him helping me (and i was his competition) my family would have lost everything.
It is not a dog eat dog world, there are some genuine people that do stuff for others that doesn't make sense to the average person, and I have found Lloyd to be one of those people.
He did not Know me apart from a phone call and he put me up in his apartment for a week for free, then shipped me 2 machines so my business could continue running. I have known him for around 4 years now and have seen him repeatedly help people for nothing in return. He even helped another over sea's company get all of their sales with not a cent in return....
He was offered to go over sea's for a big company and help then build machines, for more money than you or i could dream of but declined the offer because he wanted to help the likes of me and other studio owners in NZ....
Do you get the picture yet Tom??? Lloyd is not one of those con-men that pry on the uneducated, he is a pioneer in this industry and is so far a head the rest of the world in his thinking i don't think they will ever catch up.
Won't to know more or think that i am lying? phone me 032163771
And that offer applies to all on here, dont hide behind the internet call me.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Posted On:2010-01-17 12:18:03
Tom...
What are you going to do now, call Mike Hair a liar ? " Its a conspiracy to make you look bad "
No the fact is you came on here looking for a fight or to discredit me, and epically failed. In fact I should thank you, I think I come off pretty good to the average reader and more people will trust me as a result. Best PR I have had for a while.
Mike Hair
Posted On:2010-01-17 12:10:03
Just to confirm what has already been said..
The guy who sold me my original machines was selling them for 14k and 18k there was 2 different models, they were cheap chinese pivotal machines and broke down within 3 months. He was picking them up in china by the container load for a few hundred bucks each.
Lloyd Shaw shipped me 2 vibro gym professional machines from his studio, otherwise we would have lost everything...
Tom
Posted On:2010-01-17 12:04:47
Mike please let us know the brand of machine that was sold to you for 100 times its imported price .This is just not true is it. Has lloyd been fibbing agin or is this just some mistake on his part.
Lloyd, Im just correcting what you already state to people. You state this machine is made in NZ. Now that just not true. You said it and im just pointing out the fact.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Posted On:2010-01-17 11:07:48
George..
If you wish to question someone else's integrity on the board, then have some yourself and put your real name up. And make sure we can check on it just like you want to check on other people.
Or risk being deleted.
Note: As you can see a number of others have been attacking me hiding behind pseudonyms. Last warning, you will only be deleted from now on. I have no time for cowards.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Posted On:2010-01-17 10:30:10
Cono...
We have been over this. All the people that give their full name are real and contactable. If you are too lazy to do this then that is your problem.
The ones that give fake names tend to be the dodgy ones.
Tom Style....
What do you mean full disclosure ? You find me a studio owner that does not know that and then we can talk. People who do business with me are told everything.
Note: I only import the motors and Fq inverter because no-one manufactures them in N.Z. One day I plan to change that as well.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Posted On:2010-01-17 10:22:37
I can assure you John Weatherly is who he says he is. It was confirmed on CorePerformance a few times as he used to be a contributor to that site as well.
As far as I am aware he has zero conflicts of interests and is not even involved in our industry. He just really doesn't like dodgy academics and lets the world know it.
Note: He CCs me in on all the emails he sends to other academics.
George
Posted On:2010-01-17 10:15:16
Ive got a gripe Lloyd this John Weatherley. you do realise he is meant to like on the west coast of the US. There is a weatherley who has certain qualifications and this person below is NOT him. you have an imposter for sure. the articles he quotes in many cases do not exist Lloyd id investigate this .
So remember their is no such thing really as a bad machine, just bad marketers. Everyone who sells machines understands this info, but the ones selling the cheaper units of course hide it from you. But if you look at some of Power Plates new advertising its all about " not all vibrations are created equal" . That was after years of them selling the cheaper type machines and their sales staff telling people " it all the same" . But that has now come back to bite them big-time.
They are now losing sales every day from even cheaper companies using their old marketing tricks. It would be funny except for the fact it is really the consumer that loses out.
John
Posted On:2010-01-17 09:30:30
I agree with Lloyd that it will be scientifically proven that different machines produce different results. I also agree with him that health products should come with full disclosure. Dodgy, unethical people and companies should be exposed. I recently exposed a professor here in the U.S. who was saying or Power Plate was saying headed a Power Plate Research Center at Appalachian State on the Power Plate site. I spoke to a colleague of his at Appalachian State last week and this colleague of Dr. David Nieman said there was no Power Plate Research Center at Appalachian State. I have been trying to contact Dr. David Nieman all week via email, phone, leaving messages in the HLES Dept at Appalachian State where Nieman is a professor and Dr. Nieman is nowhere to be found. And all I want is a simple yes or no answer from Dr. Nieman as to whether he heads the Power Plate Research Center at Appalachian State like Power Plate currently says and has said for some time under the Education heading for their listing of Dr. Nieman as a member of their Scientific Advisory Board. A simple yes or no from Dr. Nieman as to whether he heads the Power Plate Research Center at Appalachian State is apparently too much to expect from a professor here in the U.S. Dr. Nieman seems to have disappeared. Nobody at Appalachian State seems to know where he is and Dr. Nieman has not returned my calls or messages. Other professors besides Dr. Nieman at other universities have been informed about this. This includes current JSCR Editor in Chief Dr. William Kraemer, former USOC Head of Sports Physiology Dr. Mike Stone, Dr. Andy Fry who is Dept Head at the U of Kansas, and also Dr. Steve Fleck. We will see if anything is done about this dodgy behavior of Dr. Nieman at Appalachian State and if I get the courtesy of a response from Dr. Nieman .
Marcus....... Yes its not for everybody, and the industry is still young. I tell people to try different systems if they don't like one. But some people are not going to like it no matter what.
Glowworm
Posted On:2010-01-17 09:03:21
I bought a trainer off TV ,i think it was that damion Kristof. I think it was about $1000 . I see you can buy the same ones under a different brand for about $800 at most shops or as low as $300 on Tradme. Hey that's the power of advertising for you,I bought it and am still very happy with my purchase. Lisa Bell
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Posted On:2010-01-17 02:00:31
It will be scientifically proven beyond a doubt that different machine give different results.
And it is our long term goal to expose, and name and shame, any company or individual who has kept this fact from you in the name of greed. No excuses will be accepted.
Health products should come with a code of full disclosure.
Then if you have any questions please ask them here, in this forum.
kital
Posted On:2010-01-16 23:00:56
Thnak u . i will say to my conos friends in spain to look at this site.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Posted On:2010-01-16 22:36:02
Tom..
You have tried so hard to discredit me . Why do you find it so hard to accept I have other reasons for doing this than money.
Is money the ONLY reason you do anything. Are you passionate about nothing ?
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Posted On:2010-01-16 22:05:18
Mike Hair in Invercargill was sold a studio full of cheap Chinese Pivotals for over 100 times their original value in 2007.
He was told they were real "commercial" machines. When they broke in the first months the company refused to fix them and the salesperson disappeared. Mike almost lost his house over it, and I had to fly him down some Vibro-Gyms to help the guy out, even though he was my competition at the time.
Check up on it if you want.
You want some more horror stories ?
Note.. this is still happening today in other countries.
kital
Posted On:2010-01-16 21:59:41
lloydbecause of the fracas you caused a few days ago there are alot of people watching nowit should be good far bizines english ist my first language so sorry....i use a vibra machine here in st heliers i am spanish ok
now, i was sent text of this site and im learng some tings ok but i see message and then it go away i dont understand. is this u taking it away please say as if that is so i wont post aginm
Lloyd
Posted On:2010-01-16 20:06:00
Please note: I am not going to tell anyone how to build a machine. I have already written enough material on the basics. My advice is to go and read it.
If you then come back and tell me you understand bio-mechanics, and how it relates to building a machine, then we can delve into it deeper.
And I have an idea for those questioning what it takes to build my machines. Go away and build a machine of similar quality.
When you have put your money were your mouth is, I will take you seriously. I think that is fair.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Posted On:2010-01-16 19:49:42
Any relevant questions will be left up, stupid dead end remarks or obvious marketing will be removed. I welcome discussions on the science and engineering of the machines.
I wrote it and its not exactly anti-competetive is it. Please show me another manufacturer who writes material like that .
But if Fit-Vibe is the "best" that can be built ( absolutely no-one can build better ) , then why was I down at Slimmer's Edge in Auckland CBD only a few months ago, helping David try and fix his machines ? The motors were not going and the isolators had split and turned into paste. I had never seen anything like it.
I am only talking engineering here, not opinion or marketing. So if you can explain that to me, in engineering terms, I would be grateful.
DavidHussy ....... I import the motors and the Fq inverter. Everything else is made right here in N.Z.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Posted On:2010-01-16 19:30:19
I was the one that recommended Elite import the Fit-Vibe, and I have supported their sale all along, so sorry I do not understand your comments. What I did not support was Elite Fitness bringing in cheap Chinese junk. I am allowed to have my standards.
Note.... Both Vibro-Gym and Power Plate have MDD cert. They all go for it to boost sales.
My machines can not be compared to others on the market, and only a marketer would say otherwise. Everyone else wants to produce one for a certain price, because they have a retail price already in mind. So they can not just build the best machine they can, they build the best machine they can on a budget.
My smallest machine actually cost more than 12k to build. I do not even add my own labor to the final bill. But you have to realize it is made in a special way that follows my theories on bio-mechanics. So it can do exactly what I want and last the lifetime of the business. And so far with every machine I have ever built still is working ( even my prototype ).
No other company in the world can make that claim, so I think I have been proven right.
It was Power Plate that was buying machines for $800 off the Chinese and selling them for $18,000 . They were also putting "Made in Holland" stickers on the back to fool people. This is no secret to those in the industry.
Di Heap
Posted On:2010-01-16 19:19:03
A note to AL
You said a guy at Elite Fitness said they were going to release commercial machines to studios under the name “Vibe with a plus sign after it”.
That’s NOT going to happen!I own the TradeMark for VibePlus
Di Heap
Posted On:2010-01-16 18:26:46
Winston, I love free-weights but rarely use them (motivation and time).For Vibration Training to be as good as free weights you need a high quality lineal machine (I’m starting to feel like I’m repeating myself).Vibra-Train does have advantage over other brands by having a machine with side handle-bars so we can do full body tricep dips (the handlebars vibrate and only toes on base platform for support for females, males totally suspended);bicep curls (for only few customers who are accustomed to such exercise), regular pullup using handlebars and more.These are NOT part of the standard Safety Program for all customers.They are extras that a person must earn the right to do – that is, they can prove they can do the standard safety program perfectly.
The way most people use free-weights (a few bicep curls) any old vibration machine that allows for a tricep dip and plank would equal BUT I have taken you seriously and for many people weights are better as they don’t have access to machines that give the same results.Again, I’m asking, have you even tried a good machine?
Vibration Training (in general) is NOT set up as a replacement for weights or other exercise.It can be that for people who don’t want to use a gym or free-weights, or can’t due to injury.It can be an adjunct to your regular workout program and as such it is the “icing on the cake” and we see people coming top in their chosen sports events.It’s also very time efficient and needs no special clothing or a shower afterwards so we see people who prefer it to the gym.
The post asking about costs wont be deleted. Lloyd is straight up. Hell reply
Di Heap
Posted On:2010-01-16 17:38:22
herin lies the problem as i see it. On your videos you admit that home gym machines are okpeople go to a gym as who can afford so many machines right
a vibe studio has just that one machine which wont do as much as free weights etc
Al, you wrote the above.Have you ever used a Vibra-Train brand or other high force Vibration machine?I’m laughing at the comment that it wont do as much as free weights.Come into the City Studio and I promise to send you away exhausted and prove you wrong.(I have nothing against free weights)
Some home machines are okay.A person who does their homework first and asks lots of questions of salespeople, and has the money for a “better” machine, might buy something that is okay.Useful for starting off in vibration (therapy more than real exercise), okay for someone who is obese or unfit; okay for sports people as a warm-up and cool-down.Most people will quickly plateau on even a “better” home machine or in the case of a cheapo pivotal, it will soon become another piece of ‘as seen on tv” junk taking up room in the back shed or on TradeMe for re-sale.
