Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.
Moras G, Rodríguez-Jiménez S, Tous-Fajardo J, Ranz D, Mujika I.
J Strength Cond Res. 2009 Oct 14.
PMID: 19834351
Without visuals it is hard to tell exactly what kind of "bar" they mean here but I suspect it is a bench press bar with a vibratory motor attached. There are a number of systems available which are nothing like I use, so I will not comment on that side of it, but the EMG activity is interesting.
" the highest EMGrms was elicited at 45Hzi. "
Again we see these higher Fq eliciting a response when some companies still preach that 27Hz is the "only" Fq to use. Even though more and more research proves otherwise.
DanPelletier
Posted On:2009-10-17 06:29:28
Mike I here you, been tough keeping things going here as well but we are very passionate about what we do and take the training and supervision very seriously and it has paid off. It came down to our business plan and Lloyd has mentioned this as well. With a personal service business you had better take a serious look at time to profitability and know that it will take more than a few months to build loyalty and repeat business, we adjusted our plan from 2 to 3 years out although we may hit profitability a little sooner it still takes a decent period of time.
Brad, I would take Lloyd up on his offer. FYI we use Vibrogym Pros just like Mike had before he got VibraTrain and yes I am very envious..but with the safety program, supervision and a personal committment even Vibrogym Pros have done a very good job.
John
Posted On:2009-10-17 05:27:48
Several more studies having to do with vibration were in the Oct issue of JSCR. The abstracts can be read at www.nlm.nih.gov, click on PubMed, and type in "vibration exercise" as search words.
John Weatherly
P.S. For some reason, I am not able to type in my last name to appear at the top on my post. This is why I typed it following my post.
MikeHair
Posted On:2009-10-16 14:44:16
So what happened to Brad?
Typical, comes on the site all rip, shit and bust accusing people of all sorts of things then just disappears again!
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com
Posted On:2009-10-14 22:51:22
Please note, this is not just about the below case.
The amount of industry stalkers we have, and had on the last site ( people who follow every move we make and read everything we release ) seemed to be quite high. But these self professed experts never offer help to anybody, or answer questions from the public, they only ever jump on to either sell something or try to defend themselves if they feel attacked in some way. We never hear from them otherwise. Of course they all deny following our work, but like magic they appear if ever mentioned.
I understand that when I write articles I open myself up for criticism, but its the "attack and run" ones I despise the most. They want answers, and they always get them, but will not man up and answer a few themselves. It must be so easy to sit on your ass and do nothing while criticizing others . Now I do not mind being questioned by my peers, but those looking from the outside in, releasing no material themselves to be judged on, do not deserve any respect and I will expose them every chance I get.
Note.... I do not expect everybody to design machines, programs and have their own chain. But dedication to the industry costs nothing and shows me allot.
Mike Hair
Posted On:2009-10-14 21:45:55
Looks like brad will take another six months b4 he responds......
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com
Posted On:2009-10-14 16:25:12
And I am sorry Brad, but setting up only a few blocks away from the busiest Vibra-Train studio in N.Z. was not a smart idea.
My opinion is the last owners only make their living off riding on the coat strings of exercise fads and they wanted to replicate that in my industry, and indeed setting up in the area of an already marketed to population seemed the easy option, but setting up so close meant you were only ever going to get the customers that did not like our system.
Not even Power Plates head office could stand up to the competition when they decided to set up too close to me, and that was with massive T.V. advertising.
If you had been down in Howick you would have stood a chance. I know it was not your fault and my opinion is you were sold a lemon. You are obviously still interested in the industry, so my invitation to come in clear the air and see what we really do is still there.
Di Heap
Posted On:2009-10-14 11:13:17
Brad
If you are upset about past events you can pick up a phone and discuss this or come into Vibra-Train’s City Studio and talk with Lloyd.You were not singled out in any way but you seem to have taken on all the listed statements.
Come in and have a session on the machines.Watch customers and observe if they are left alone after 3 visits.It doesn’t happen.All training is supervised.You could say I’ve developed “eyes in the back of my head” but, as well as visual cues, the machines make distinct sounds that alert me to a customer being out of position.Perhaps it’s just a Vibra-Train phenomena but I hear the vibration sound change.When I was a regular customer I would think Lloyd was ignoring me until he yelled across the room his “Get down lower” or other strongly worded instruction and I never knew how he did it; now I know!Visit Botany or any other studio and then comment on what degree of supervision you see and are given.
If you were told of possible problems long ago your integrity should have led you to call Lloyd and let him know.
My opinion: If your customers followed you to Peak Pilates only and stopped vibration training they have missed out on strength and fitness gains and you were negligent in not telling them to continue with vibration or another form of resistance work.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com
Posted On:2009-10-13 23:01:38
Brad.......
A couple of points I will go over below, but it must be noted that I was referring to the industry in general and the pattern of behavior I have witnessed in my articles, I seldom ever only talk about one case. So stop being so precious.
Your case and my opinion ........
(a) I did and still do consider what you guys taught was unsafe. Your being involved in sports and Physio work gave you ZERO understanding of Vibration Training. And it is deliberately misleading the public to say otherwise and it still disgusts me when I hear that. I studied this exact science for 2 years before I physically got involved, not something else. And I stand by my design success, and volume of work I have produced over the years, that I think people can use that to judge if I am an expert or not. Not just calling myself one through shameless self promotion.
If you wish to point me in the direction of your work I will gladly give you my opinion of it.
My safety program you did not agree with has remained unchanged and it is used globally very successfully since 2004. On all age groups. Even lots of Vibro-Gym , HyperGravity and Power Plate studios follow my program word for word now. So if you were right, how is that possible ?
(b) Not a single person you were involved with is still in the industry. So they must have been real passionate about this technology, NOT.
(c) I was just down at a studio only 1km away from me the other week ( SlimmersEdge ) trying to help fix the owners machines, for free. Call and ask if you wish. I have recently had meetings with Vibex, Purely-Body and other such companies about joint marketing. I have been willing and have helped my open and honest competition since I started. I stand by my record.
If you wanted to come in and publically dis-associate yourself from others you associated with before, then you knew were I was. Everybody knew exactly how I operated so keeping quite did you zero favors. Even though you were only 20 you must have understood the concept of goodwill and badwill. Because I am quite sure you were happy to take over existing customers and the goodwill when you took over the business. Well you also took over some badwill that should have been taken care of by you. Not by me. You admitted in the past you did not agree with the way things had been done earlier , you could have come and shaken my hand and told me that..
(d) I suspect you are exaggerating about the local Vibra-Train studio leaving you to your own devices as a general rule. Staff have been fired for this and you know it. The owners even asked you to contact them about it and you did not. I suspect you only repeated that for marketing purposes.
Proof: If anyone here wants to pop into the Botany studio and tests the staff, be my guest. It is still there following the same rules and regulations and you will find Brads statement is incorrect to put it politely.
(e) I do not have to attack so many companies anymore in N.Z. because we have cleaned it up pretty well. Most of the pretenders are gone or disabled and only the dedicated are left. My focus is global now.
Last word....
I took on the biggest companies in this industry and beat them with Kiwi built machines, ones they said would never work , with a program they put down. ( Remember Kyle Jack-Midgley and Dan Fivey ? ) Just because you guys couldn't understand my work does not mean it was wrong.
You have an opinion, I have a reputation.
Mike Hair
Posted On:2009-10-13 21:52:36
Brad.
Is it true that all the studios that were associated with your successful business friends are now closed? I have used vibrogyms for the last 3 and a half years with Vibra-trains safety program and have found them very successful.
Is it also true that your so called business associates are all no longer involved in the industry? I have been through many ups and downs in this industry, but due to PASSION i am still here and so is Lloyd. Where are they???
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com
Posted On:2009-10-13 21:11:42
Brad....
Why I have no respect for you.
You talked down my "simplistic" program and once said I did not utilize the capacity of my machines. You suggested you were more qualified or smarter, and that is why I could not work out how to use them as well as you could. You did this on the last forum for everybody to see. Not only showing your arrogance and lack of respect but an inability to understand why I place restrictions around my machines I designed.
If you want to apologize then my opinion of you might change.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com
Posted On:2009-10-13 19:26:15
P.S. If you have problems with the forum ( sometimes happens ) type up your message in email and copy/paste.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com
Posted On:2009-10-13 19:15:45
Brad.......
A couple of points I will go over below, but it must be noted that I was referring to the industry in general and the pattern of behavior I have witnessed in my articles, I seldom ever only talk about one case. So stop being so precious.
Your case and my opinion ........
(a) I did and still do consider what you guys taught was unsafe. Your being involved in sports and Physio work gave you ZERO understanding of Vibration Training. And it is deliberately misleading the public to say otherwise and it still disgusts me when I hear that. I studied this exact science for 2 years before I physically got involved, not something else. And I stand by my design success, and volume of work I have produced over the years, that I think people can use that to judge if I am an expert or not. Not just calling myself one through shameless self promotion.
If you wish to point me in the direction of your work I will gladly give you my opinion of it.
My safety program you did not agree with has remained unchanged and it is used globally very successfully since 2004. On all age groups. Even lots of Vibro-Gym , HyperGravity and Power Plate studios follow my program word for word now. So if you were right, how is that possible ?
(b) Not a single person you were involved with is still in the industry. So they must have been real passionate about this technology, NOT.
(c) I was just down at a studio only 1km away from me the other week ( SlimmersEdge ) trying to help fix the owners machines, for free. Call and ask if you wish. I have recently had meetings with Vibex, Purely-Body and other such companies about joint marketing. I have been willing and have helped my open and honest competition since I started. I stand by my record.
If you wanted to come in and publically dis-associate yourself from others you associated with before, then you knew were I was. Everybody knew exactly how I operated so keeping quite did you zero favors. Even though you were only 20 you must have understood the concept of goodwill and badwill. Because I am quite sure you were happy to take over existing customers and the goodwill when you took over the business. Well you also took over some badwill that should have been taken care of by you. Not by me. You admitted in the past you did not agree with the way things had been done earlier , you could have come and shaken my hand and told me that..
(d) I suspect you are exaggerating about the local Vibra-Train studio leaving you to your own devices as a general rule. Staff have been fired for this and you know it. The owners even asked you to contact them about it and you did not. I suspect you only repeated that for marketing purposes.
Proof: If anyone here wants to pop into the Botany studio and tests the staff, be my guest. It is still there following the same rules and regulations and you will find Brads statement is incorrect to put it politely.
(e) I do not have to attack so many companies anymore in N.Z. because we have cleaned it up pretty well. Most of the pretenders are gone or disabled and only the dedicated are left. My focus is global now.
Last word....
I took on the biggest companies in this industry and beat them with Kiwi built machines, ones they said would never work , with a program they put down. ( Remember self professed expert Dan Fivey ? ) Just because you guys couldn't understand my work does not mean it was wrong.
You have an opinion, I have a reputation.
MikeHair
Posted On:2009-10-13 19:06:14
Brad,
Also I have never heard of you or read about you on this forum, so what do you mean by.... "Now what really annoys me is that you never met me, never spoke with me, never visited my studio but you feel you are completely free to bag me."
Ps. dont take this as a personal attack.
P.s.s Sorry that your business did not succeed.
MikeHair
Posted On:2009-10-13 18:43:23
Brad.
I am that guy from Invercargill you speak of. I started my own company nearly 4 years ago and had nothing to do with Vibratrain, so i guess you could say we were compitition, even though i was at the other end of the country. There was nothing stopping any one from starting there own Vibratrain studio down here. Lloyd choose to help me when I contacted him after we started to fail due to dodgy machines and dishonered warrantys.
We have survived the last 3 years with vibrogyms and have now become a licenced vibratrain studio.
I fail to see why your business failed if you were such a people person, as this is a people business. We have had to constantly re-envent ourselves. We do not come from wealth or posses any great business skills, just a passion for helping people, so blameing lack of business knowledge for closing down sounds like a cop out.
Vibratrain has to expanded to australia and the u.k so they must be doing something right. Their machines are getting constant results because of there safety programe, which by the way only needs to be supervised once people get to know it. We are dealing with adults after all not idiots.
Mike
Brad
Posted On:2009-10-13 16:56:51
also why can you not type a question mark on this forum or brackets and a lot of other things
Brad
Posted On:2009-10-13 16:55:22
Lloyd,
I check the net every 6 months or so to see how the industry is developing since I closed my doors Dec 2007.
My name is Brad and I owned Peak Vibe in Botany. Now what really annoys me is that you never met me, never spoke with me, never visited my studio but you feel you are completely free to bag me.
Lets go through what you mentioned as what companies did and how my company gets put in there with all the other ones that Lloyd mey have visited and spoke with and found to have dodgy practices and closed down.
"QUOTE" (a) Opens studio with some skullduggery or secrecy involved. They always think this makes them clever somehow, but in reality it just makes them look dodgy. People who are really confident at what they do, hide nothing.
Lloyd knows when peak vibe opened I was not the owner. He would probably also know that the Sunday OPEN DAY had over 400 people come to the studio. To do this there was a huge letter box drop and Newspaper advertising how much more out in te open could a company be
"Hey Lloyd I am about to open a studio this weekend I thought I would let you know so you can set up a plan b to make sure thatnone of your clients come and check it out" DONT BE SO STUPID.
"QUOTE" (b) Starts putting down the competition straight away, even though that's where they got the idea of entering the industry in the first place from, and everyone around them knows it. Even those closest to them find it kinda underhanded, but they say nothing. I always find this hilarious, because this bluff never works and only makes them look scared.
Well maybe the 1st owner of peak vibe did this the closest I got to doing this was mentioning the fact that from what Clients had told me after they had left you company and come to mine was that they were not supervised anymore after they had completed around 3 sessions. Other than that I never met you never spoke with you and just formed an opinion of you from the way you wrote posts on forums which I am glad to say are a lot better now days as you seem to have swapped you ratio to 80 percent helping people 20 percent attacking people instead of the other way around.
"QUOTE" (c) They become instant experts. Usually by reading other peoples material, the same ones they have no respect for now.
Sounds like a good idea to open a business and when clients ask you anything you stutter and avoid the question and look like a fool. I became an expert on how i reacted to the VibroGym and mixed this with my knowledge from 2 years of a Sport Degree, Personal Training Cert., a 7 year career as an elite distance runner and the fact my partner is a physio. I also did a lot of reading of research and forums etc.
How did you become an expert
Reading and teasting equipment on yourself, why can there only be one expert in the industry which you believe is you.
"QUOTE" (d) As any marketer does they put massive effort into getting people in the door, any trick will do. They are quite often very good at this.
Are you fricken MENTAL. this is exactly what you do and you are also very good at this I advertised in the same paper as you and Vibra Train was in there more than me with very flashy adverts with a picture of a perfect ass in a g string 2 times a week. The closest I got to Flashy advertising was "FREE 1 week trial" I must be a genius.
"QUOTE" (e) Once in the door though, they show zero interest in safe training methods and actually damage the industry they have just entered. But as the money going through the till is their ONLY indication of success they simply don't care.
OK when did you come to my studio to see these unsafe training methods.
I believe my training methods were safer than yours as my clients were never left to themselves and I gave my client a week to trial Peak vibe so I could slowly get them accustomed to WBV and not just giving them the hardest workout possible and their blood sugars dropping 2 seconds before they did.
I would say if I understood how to have a successful business and understood the finiancial side I may not have closed as my strength was with people and not with book work. I would say the indication of success for me would have been clients who would bring me lunch as they knew I would be working non stop by myself without breaks, clients who would give up there own time freely to help me develop adverts and tech me how to use MYOB. and clients who have followed me to my new job at Peak Pilates and have become regular clients over the past 18 months.
They questions should be why did they not just change to Vibra Train.
I believe it is not just the bad operators damaging the image of WBV it is also you Lloyd with your loud mouth and stupid attacking posts like the one I am quoting from.
You say you help everyone who has the WBV vision then why didnt you come to me and see how I was going and decide for yourself If i would be worth helping.
It is because you only help the companies that are not in direct competition with your franchise Like the guy who is in invercargill but keeps saying he is in competition with you.
So how about you stop using PEAK VIBES name the way you do as it is associated with the 1st owner and myself and how can you comment on the company when I owned it
The reason my company closed is to do with my lack of all knowledge business as I was 20 and was studying to be a PE teacher and come from a very low income family so i was guessing what to do and the bad timing of landlords changing and rent increasing with the fortunate timing of being offered a great job with great pay before I got myself into to much debt.
I learnt a lot i enjoyed being my own boss and providing jobs and services to a community.
Now I would like to be able to every once an a while see how the industy is going without having to see my old company hacked down without any facts at all.
Please tell the stories you have about me and my company and not just the ones from the 1st owner who is a bloody successful business owner that clashed with you
Regards
Brad
Mike Hair
Posted On:2009-10-10 15:59:52
Hi Keith. I dont think you will have to many problems with the all blacks getting primed, people think they are a great team but from what im seeing they havent won the world cup for over 20 years, cant be that great aye.
PhilippaChurch
Posted On:2009-10-09 21:51:43
Its not only the wildly unethical behaviour thats amazing, its also teh sheer stupidity...did he think noone would notice
Lloyd Shaw
Posted On:2009-10-09 18:02:47
It has only further made a joke of him and his running down of my machines, all the while showing everybody how low he will stoop for a sale ( even though I know 1 of his supporters who would probably say its " just business " ). The rest will be thinking he is on crack.
What I seriously want to know is..... He cant even get his own commercial designs to work properly, so does he really think copying someone else's from a photograph is going to solve that problem ?
Desperate and pathetically funny Josh Hayon of HyperGravity, good on ya.
MikeHair
Posted On:2009-10-09 17:44:19
Totally agree Robyn, it is a very big compliment.
Robyn
Posted On:2009-10-09 15:41:24
From another perspective I think it could be seen as a compliment
MikeHair
Posted On:2009-10-09 14:56:58
Funniest thing i ever seen or maybe the sadest thing. Hypergravity have a new machine out, they have stolen pictures of Vibratrain machines and plastered thier name on them. Lol.
So what does it feel like being the leader Lloyd with every one else trying to copy....
Keith
Posted On:2009-10-08 10:46:52
Just keep the All Blacks away from Maximus. I certainly dont want them primed. Glad to hear its going good for you Mike.
Di Heap
Posted On:2009-10-08 08:35:18
Sheesh Mike, soon you’ll be telling us new customers are arriving in droves, just to see your well toned body, with those massive biceps and overall great muscle definition.Send us a pic please for my studio wall. Regular customers here are so used to seeing the amazing pic of Lloyd’s 6-pack that they hardly notice, plus, of course, many are getting those same results if they put in the effort.We can make Vibration Training seem like an easy ride to super fitness but like anything else you get out of it what you put in!
Definitely makes it easier having high force, top quality machines to work with.
I tried your machine.It was smooth, with an almost gentle feel when doing a basic squat but the muscle contraction in my quads was so strong and burning during the last 20 seconds of the 60 second time I can really understand how doing the full safety program is giving you results after only a few sessions.MAXIMUS PRIME... the ultimate transformer, love the name!
Mike Hair
Posted On:2009-10-06 21:04:35
Well i have just finished my 4th work out on our new vibra-train machine, it is truly an unbelievable machine. My biceps are bigger than they where when i was pushing weights 12 months ago and my chest is fricken massive Lol. The definition in my tricep muscles is awesome.
I think I have created a bit of a headache for myself as all my clients are fighting to get on it, might have to set up a ring and have jelly wrestling, only the winners can use the machine.....HA HA
The woman love the machine and we are getting more guys coming in each day and leaving defeated. I call our machine MAXIMUS PRIME..... the ultimate transformer.
John
Posted On:2009-10-06 05:12:45
Good artilces Lloyd and Di. The article on muscle wasting and vibration is excellent and written so the layperson can understand it. More information is coming out all the time. You may want to check www.nlm.nih.gov, click on PubMed, and type in "vibration exercise" for recent abstracts of studies. One by Kemmler out of Germany looked at neuromuscular responses in females over 65 years of age with a year of vibration exercise, conventional exercise, and a control group. Both the vibration exercise and conventional exercise groups showed improvements but it appears from the abstract that the vibration exercise group improved the most. This looks like a good study because it was done over a year and had two exercise groups along with the control group.
John Weatherly
Lloyd Shaw
Posted On:2009-10-05 20:38:30
As you can see we have added a few articles contributed by myself and other people today. Some are older articles we are just catching up on. In future they will be updated more regularly.
We have also added "THE BLACKLIST" which is a list of companies or people we recommend not to buy product off or do business with for various reasons. This will also be updated regularly as more dodgy operators surface. The likes of Power Plate, Kevin Yeaman and the Kraaijenhof brothers will be getting their own articles so the consumer can see the kinds of things that need to be stamped out if we are ever to have a clean industry.
