Hi Demon

When you ask questions on this forum please look back for answers and for questions asked to you. About your experiences on PowerPlate Lloyd asked (see bottom of this page):  
Could you clarify "It is true that I exercised a bit more on PP than I do on DKN but still…"    Did they make you do dynamic work or just more poses ?

 About the reports of health problems with PowerPlate machines – this was marketing by Clinton Rubin to promote the Juvent machine.

 Eye and Kidney problems can be associated with uncontrolled heavy vibration at high G-forces such as with industrial equipment and long distance truck driving. The vibration of the machines we use is defined as Controlled Whole Body Vibration – force, time, fq, etc all controlled and used for good.

Please answer the question above – how long are you on the machine and what positions are you doing?

Hi,

I found an article about PowerPlate today on czech website; it was typical PR but in the discussion below somebody wrote that PP (and similar machines) were already banned in some countries because they were found to cause serious problems with eyes and kidneys? Is this true?

WBV training is increasing blood pressure, even if this is only temporary, can this has the similar effect as 'normal' high blood pressure on body over long time? That means destruction of eyes and kidneys?

I agree we need more companies standing up to the junk that is out there inferring results based on much more powerful machines.  I think I have a lot of negativity to overcome in this market trying to educate the local population.  And radio and print ads do not cut it. 

I did notice one of your newer machines with the handles which allow a good back pose.  That was the only muscle group which was hard to hit on all other machines.

What constitutes your analysis that the Wave is a medium energy machine.  The specs are 2 and 4 mm and all the frequencies are there.  Is it the acceleration of the plate

Kirk

True Lloyd, the pivotal machines we had would be classed as low to medium, didnt mean to sound misleading. But i was just giving my opionon based on what Di had written earlier. 

I have only ever seen the Galileo's on video and they look way more powerful than what i had. And i still believe just like you Lloyd that they have there place in the market, but only when they have a safety programe attached and all the cheap and nasty ones have gone.

I was the first Commercial studio in NZ to set up with pivotal machines, although they gave good thereputic and medical results, ie...blood flow, flexibility and people with MS benefitted greatly, they do not and should not be compared to high speed Lineal machines. They results on the pivotal are limited and most people platau after a few months, where as i have been using high end lineal for around 4 years now and it still kicks my arse. I trained this morning for only 13 minutes on a force 5 VibraTrain machine with full vibrating handle bars and i am still very tired as it uses more energy then when i was weight lifting.

Oh and sorry guys if you want to try a force 5 you have to go to VibraTrain head studio in Auckland or come to my studio in Invercargill.  Jealous much......

My wife and I opened a fitness and wellness studio a few months ago.  We have cardio equipment and use vibration equipment for resistance training.  I have been working out on both types of vibration equipment for months now and I still find that my pivotal machines vibraflex galileo is more fatiguing than my lineal machines wave.  I have done many demos and research before deciding on my equipment.  There are no vibratrain machines in canada and a vibragym was my only alternative.  I thought the vibrogym was ok but I got too many mixed messages from people who sell their equipment.  I am confident ith the capability of the Wave but i am convinced that pivotal gives a better workout whith the exception of more protocols or exercise positions available on a lineal machine.  We still incorporate both machines for a full body workout and I think both have their place and compliment each other.

Another plug for my new article: You just can’t trust anyone (http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/you-just-can-t-trust-anyone )

Would like to stimulate discussion on the differences in platforms and their real usefulness compared with what advertisers and infomercials say – which machines types are good for fat-loss, for fitness, for muscle build, strength, for relieving backache, for helping with M.S.

There are articles about all these but I know some people find this discussion forum and don’t read the articles until we link them. 

Also would you personally promote a product that was very different to the one you use, if you were paid to do it?  If you own a studio, how would you feel if a sponsored customer did this?  If you are new to this forum and looking to buy a home machine, how much are you influenced by TV advertisements?

Hi Philippa

Yes do give me a call or email, google Resonance Vibration Training.   Where are you  Are you definitely looking for a pivotal unit or also looking at lineal.

Hi Philippa, “Made in China” is sometimes okay ifI  the specifications are kept to, especially over each production run. Sadly even with quality products later runs have quality fade – can be greed on the part of those ordering the product too, wanting lower costs and high profits. Being quieter doesn’t sound good enough.

That machine looks okay for gentle stimulation. It’s a good start.  Where are you in U.K? If you can, get to see or call Philippa Church at ResonanceVT.  She runs a studio in Ampthill, with our N.Z. Vibra-Train machines and she’s very knowledgeable of what’s available locally. 

Vibra-Train doesn’t make pivotal machines but I have used a prototype in the development studio when I had injuries that prevented me using the regular machines.  It was just amazing – real fitness training alongside the stimulation of therapy (improved blood circulation and gentle movement). It was hard work holding a simple squat on the prototype pivotal machine yet so do-able even with injuries.  The machine has been disassembled, annoyed me at the time.  Everything it could do can be achieved on the lineal Vibra-Train machines as there are ways to lower the force for people with disabilities. I think there is a real place for pivotal machines, “Vibra-Train style” (it was very different to any other pivotal platform and I have tried just about all).  I know Lloyd will say it’s just a matter of the right time. He has no plans to release a pivotal machine at present.

See if you can find a PulseTrainer machine to try. (no longer made I think). It has both Tilt/Pivotal and Flat/Lineal although it feels rather rough on the Flat setting.  The Tilt (as they call it) would give you stimulation (not training) and the machine is very small and suitable for home use. Easily found on Google but very overpriced, maybe due to freight, so look for a re-sale one.

There’s a new article up - http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/you-just-can-t-trust-anyone 

For those working in the Vibration Training/Therapy industry this shows the power of bad advertising.  For those wanting to buy a machine and needing information this is essential reading.

You are right LLoyd,I had an e-mail from Oscill8...................and guess what.......made in China ,but "of course,to their high spec"

Hmmmmm,the best evidence they suggest is it is quieter than their consumers have found in other models.

WHY DO YOU not help me here.......have you got any plans to oscillate.Genuine question.I am a trusting soul,but you have proved this is not necessarily ideal.England is full of arthritics,you could help us.......think on......

Oh dear.I shall rethink my strategy.This business is so fraught with doubts for those of us who just are not willing to be too easily led,and yet genuinely believe in these machines.I thank you so very much for your input ,really proves that you are a special person,and I do hope your success continues in huge bucket loads.I cannot imagine what traumas you have been through to get where you are.May I suggest that in your review section you name a few names of models.....as in their marketing descriptions they do not necessairly use the same language as you.This is what is so confusing for us simple folk.

Anyway ,on with my search.......

Thanks Lloyd.

Philippa

Not a bad unit for Therapy.

I think you will find it is made in China though and it may not actually go up to 30Hz.

http://www.oscill-8.com/index.htm

Lloyd,thank-you for your excellent advice.I am a bit loathe to invest in China,and have found this UK manufactured  machine.May I bother you to look at the link if you have time.It seems well manufactured.......but a lot more expensive than those on E-Bay.Should I stay well away,and opt for one of the countless cheaper ones available.Is it too powerful.I Maybe its just a huge scam too.Any thoughts from you or any other knowledgeable person,gratefully accepted.

I dont know if anyone can please advise me.....

I suffer from M.E.  that dreaded fatigue illness.Before its onset I was Miss Good Health.10 years later ,now ages 50 I have been diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis.I find concentrating difficult,so sorry I just cannot get to the bottom of which vibration motion is really better for me,and if I could be given any advice as to which product is worth investing in ,I would be immensely grateful.I am not wanting to train as a goal ,but to stimulate my immune system,and strenghthen joints etc.

Big hugs for any replies,and I live in England.

Philippa

Here’s a link to the first press release about the Effect of long term Vibration Training on visceral fat (for those who don’t want to pay for the study but want to know more about it)

www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-05/eaft-svp050709.php

Thanks for the obesity study link Di.  This should be a hot topic now.  The vibration training studio concept also should grow in popularity with time.  The obese and older folks are a huge market.  It is encouraging the mature population has been receptive to the vibration training studio concept and vibration training in general.

John Weatherly

Definitely attitude wise.  Many of our older customers put the youngsters to shame.  As you say the older clients just get on with it, many younger ones complain it hurts and come out of position as it its not their fault and try to sneak up in the squats when you are not looking.  Huge respect to the over 60s here, as you say they really stick at it.  Plus they often bring in biscuits for Mark which he likes. 

Why is it that the oldest customers are some of the most definite about position on the machines? I’m sure there’s a theory about this, somewhere?  They do whatever they are physically able to do, which is generally the whole program, in precise, perfect position and for the longest time periods that I will allow eg two minutes for some positions instead of one like other customers.

Does anyone else notice this in their studio?

Definitely show that Vibration Training on high force lineal machines gives strength and fitness no matter what age you are.  Those that really can’t hold the squat position have the advantage of side vibration handlebars on some of the machines.

Obesity Facts – The European Journal of Obesity – Vol 3 – issue in progress

Effect of Long-Term Whole Body Vibration Training on Visceral Adipose Tissue: A Preliminary Report   http://tinyurl.com/29nagfl

The journal contains an abstract plus link to full report on the study we reported on last year.

Aim: To determine the effect of whole body vibration (WBV), combined with caloric restriction, on weight, body composition and metabolic risk factors in overweight and obese adults.

A discussion point: A lady just came into the studio to try out our machines.  She said she had been a customer when Vibra-Train first started and she loved the benefits she was getting but stopped because she really disliked the roughness of the European machines we had back then.

After her first minute on the Vibra-Train level 2 (beginners) machine she said it felt so smooth and was easy.  I watched as she was taken through the program and laughed quietly when after the third position (3^rd minute) she was complaining at how hard it was.

She completed the program and said although it became very hard to hold position, the machine felt smooth, not jarring.  She’ll be back - she bought a concession card.

I’d like to hear from others who have tried different brands/types of machines and prefer one over another or just want to comment.