I just looked at the Power Plate site again under U.S. and now cannot find the info about Greg Hammann being the new Global CEO under the  About Us section where it mentioned Hammann being an expert in exercise physiology yet not having a degree or degrees in this discipline.  From past experience, it appears Power Plate is up to their old deceptive tactics and lies to fool people.  I have caught them over and over saying stuff that is not true on their site over the last few years.

John Weatherly

It says on the Power Plate site Greg Hammann was named Global CEO of Power Plate in Oct of 09.  This is in the about us section.  It also, in the article, called him an expert in exercise physiology.  According  to the information provided, Hammann does not have even a degree in exercise physiology.  His academic training is in business.  This is very common in the exercise field.  People profess to be experts and yet do not have any academic training.  Compare this with fields like medicine, law, engineering etc.   Exercise is not a professional field. 

John Weatherly

There are a number of acadamies here in the UK.  I use the word acadamies in the loosest possible form of course.

I looked at www.powerplate.com under U.S. for country and they are now showing pictures and using testimonials from Clint Eastwood, Hilary Swank, Courtney Cox etc. on the site.  I am also curious about the Power Plate Academies and the locations of these Acadamies in the U.S.  If anybody knows where they currently are please let me know.

John Weatherly

Thanks for advice.  Havent seen customer since though but will get more details.

There is an interesting study by Lamont et al. on vibration and explosive strength at www.nlm.nih.gov, click on PubMed, and type in vibration exercise as search words.

John Weatherly

I'm trying to get some advice on calf stretching to help a slight injury one of our clients has.  We have done a calf massage which helped a bit and the normal stretch helps a bit.  Philippa suggested  that it might be good to stand on the machine with heels over the edge - holding onto the bar.  Drop one heel till they feel a stretch and then use the other leg to stabilise to prevent any futher downward pull  - then swap heels.  She said to check out what you guys thought though before doing it - sound a good plan or any better ideas

Phillipa,
Great to be here. In Germany, they offered me some brownies, but they were not as good as those you made ;)
Regarding machines, I can only say what my body felt during exercising on them. Physics and biomechanical properties for now I will leave to Lloyd and other guys who knows more than me. In that matter I can divide (lineal) machines to three categories. In first, there is only Vibra-train, which gave me really good workout. In second I can put Vibrogym, Bodyshaker, and Hypergravity, which all felt good, but somehow less powerful than Vibra-train. In third there are almost all others (from which I described some), that I feel are capable to provide some benefit, but mostly for therapy.

Mike
Thanks. I will keep you posted. Since I spend a lot of time reading the posts on this as well as on Vibration training site, I feel like I know some of you already.

Lloyd
You already saved me a lot of money and nerves, because I was about to buy machines, that I know now, have history of breaking up on regular basis.

Hi Dean Welcome to the forum, look forward to hearing about your advances with a studio.

Hi Dean

Great to see you here.  Sounds like you were kept busy in Germany.  Hope you managed to get yourself some good kuchen .  Thanks for the descriptions.  Were any as good as the machines you tried in the UK, the Vibratrains, Bodyshaker or Vibrogym. 

Hello to everybody
I'm a physiotherapist from Croatia, and I'm new here. For a year now I have been collecting information, facts and "facts" on vibration training. Finally, I contacted Lloyd, who recommended me to Philippa in UK, where I received a practical course in vibration training. (many thanks to Philippa and Mark, who were great hosts, and wonderful teachers). Hopefully sometime next spring I will open a first vibration studio in my country.
Since this is my first post, and in a near future I will have a lot of questions which will hopefully be answered, I will try to give to this community something first.
Last week I visited Medica fair in Dusseldorf, Germany, which is the greatest fair in Europe regarding medicine technology. Beside other stuff that interested me (I also have private physiotherapy practice) I step on every vibration platform displayed on that fair, and following are my personal experience with them:
Fitvibe (http://www.fitvibe.com/)
They offer "variety" of types of their machines, which are practically all the same (only difference is on display). Vibration which it produce is not particularly impressive, and it can do much things in physiotherapy, but it will hardly produce any serious workout. Beside that, complete platform wobbles when you step on it, or when you move your body weight from one leg to another, especially on wide squat stand. This wobbling is small, but noticeable.
I-tonic (http://www.itonic-international.com/)
Very nice looking machine. They produce two types- smaller with handles, and bigger without them. If it was cheaper it would be great home device, since it transfers really very little vibrations to the floor and it is generally low noise. It also wobble a little. Even on highest settings, and after few other vibration plates that I tried that morning, it didn't produce that feeling of tired muscles neither on my legs, or arms. And complete machine weights only 40kg. It can be good for small physiotherapy practice, since it consumes very little space.
Vibrafit (http://www.vibrafit.de/englisch/home_english.htm)
This machine is clearly built with studio/fitness settings in mind, with metal shell, and separate control tower. It produce two types of vibration- lineal and pivotal. Lineal feels somehow like a Vibragym, but a bit less powerful.  Pivotal is small amplitude, and lowest frequency is 28Hz. Not very much use of that, I suppose.
Turbosonic (http://www.turbosonicusa.com/)
Any workout on this machine is out of the question, but in physiotherapy I think it would be a great tool for treatment of various disorders, especially in elderly people. Vibrations are very soft, and they transfer through a body in different manner comparing with mechanical types of vibration plates.

Galileo was also displayed on this fair. Since there is a lot of discussion about this topic going on on this forum, I will not go on details. They generaly point out the rehabilitation use of their machines.

I will not go in Powerplate this time, since there is a lot of information and discussion about them here already. They displayed their Pro-5 air adaptive all covered with shiny stuff (crystals, or whatever). It looks like it would fit perfectly in some disco club 80's style.

There was also some CrazyFit style machines which are not worth talking about.

Producers, and all sails people that I have been talking with ensured me two things for every described machine:
1: That it can be used for training, not only for physiotherapy (with exception of Turbosonic)
2: That it can be used in a busy studio for years without problems (but neither one of them could redirect me to such a studio owner or manager that I can contact, and see for myself).

Lack of practical, as well as theoretical knowledge of sails people is a problem of its own. Wih exeption of guy with Fivibe who wrote my questions on paper and promised to answer me by e-mail, rest of them act like knowing all, but their answers didn't really support this act.


Dean Mistura

I look forward to you replicating it in the U.S. Lloyd.

John Weatherly

Like I said, from my experiences with Reynald, and meeting with Harold and Hans in Denver a few months ago, they seem purely research driven with the Galileo in Germany and seemingly disinterested in trying to compete from the fitness angle. They dont even attempt to utilize upper body positions and showed little recognition of any other manufacturers products besides Powerplate. Perhaps that was them playing coy with me

 They tried the fitness angle here in the US and it just didnt catch on. The gym around the corner from me has the Vibraflex 600 and I never see a single person using it. The gym across the street has a powerplate and its the same story. None of these trainers have the knowledge to comprehend the physics behind it or how to anticipate the many individual client responses to vibration that they may see. I see things picking up steam here amongst the medical professionals, but people overall, just dont get it yet. I do hope to change that however and will be opening a studio in March or April..depending on construction speed. I am going to use the Vibraflex 450 in the studio and do plan on reinforcing your safety program as best as I can. The honest truth is, at least for me, that the neurological and general rehabilitative benefits of the Galileo certainly outweigh the anabolic benefits that you mention so they should coexist as a "1, 2 punch" so to speak.

As far as the current debate that you are referencing, my guess would be that other individuals affiliated with Galileo may be perpetuating this lineal vs pivotal battle in order to sell the platforms. In reference to the frequency debate, amplitude claims etc, on the lineal end, everyone still says the "shearing forces" are dangerous to deter potential buyers. I cant see any more legitimacy to this claim than the "head acceleration" claim.

Keep up the good fight Lloyd. Ill be sure to keep you posted on how things work out here in the US.

Phillipa,

Thanks for the invite. I will certainly take you up on that one of these days. Also, I like the mind.body component you have added to your studio. You are certainly on the right track. I recently attended a holistic medicine and wellness expo here in NY and you should have seen how blown away the energy healer community was by the vibraflex...definately something there.

Di,

Stay on your feet already would ya. With all that vibration, your supposed to have a superhuman  proprioceptive system.

PS I never realized how hard it is to right without emoticons.

Hi Gabriel

Hey, the shoulders injury was last December; I’ve almost lasted a year with no further “mishaps”.  And what I did; well I set a gym machine incorrectly as it was a “stupid” Aussie one (N.Z. and Australia have the same love/hate relationship as US and Canada ;-) ).  I fell, taking my whole body weight through my arms.  Then the following week, and I can’t blame the Aussies for this, I fell down a flight of stairs heavily hitting one arm on one wall and the other on the other wall at right angles.  Oops, rotator cuff injury and badly swollen bursa on both sides.  This also showed up tightness across my shoulders /back that predisposed me to the seriousness of the injury.

I have a very proficient physical therapist thankfully and also used the vibration machines for therapy and continued training during recovery.  Yes, you’re right I’ve sustained too many injuries in the last 5 years but the good news is that I have greatly improved fitness and health now, from using the Vibra-Train machines regularly.  That’s the only change I’ve made, in fact I do less cardio activity now and almost no weights.  Its no wonder that Im so passionate about this industry.

You are welcome to come try our Vibratrains in the UK Gabriel.  Although not a hop skip and a jump a darn sight closer than NZ. 

Thanks for the explanation Lloyd. I have had some real up close and personal opportunities to discuss the thoughts behind the design and uses of the Galileo with Hans Scheibel and Reynald Bonmati. They approach this industry from a completely different angle than you.  And although they, like you, very "Newtonian" minded, they seem to be content and pleased with the final design as well as the promising results they are seeing with some of their rehab protocols...especially with the pediatric population. I will say, from a rehab standpoint, the pivotal is much more applicable and certainly more easily tolerated by my patients. From our conversations, I also dont get the idea that they have much interest in the fitness end of things or in dramatically changing anything from a design standopoint as this area of application is their real intent. Sort of the "if it aint broke philosophy" it seems. I can certainly see and do believe that everything evolves through new ideas though so much like the reductionist ideas of Newton are being challenged so will the permanence of the platfrom design. At least this is what I would imagine will be the case.

Sounds as if you are working hard to continue to "evolve" the industry. Looking forward to seeing one of your platforms over here in the states one day. Athough the HG is the closest I have gotten towards the "lineal experience", I can certainly see the differences and through these differences, the real need for both units to coexist as parts of a larger puzzle.

Hope all of you are doing well. Seems Di will still cannot stop hurting herself.

Take Care   

Pivotal Designs, Inertia, and a Real Workout

Lloyd says, “I have 3 new Pivotal Designs”.  I was fortunate to trial one of these in January.  It was so different to any machine I’d used before – very low amplitude, and for me this was the amazing part as I don’t like the up/down motion of pivotal, this one was very smooth!   It had really high energy and caused a true muscle contraction in my quads in a squat position yet still felt very different to the high force lineal machines I was used to. 

 Other differences to “regular” pivotal platforms – it had a meter wide platform, could cope with a user weight up to 300kg, and had the Vibra-Train specialty, vibrating handlebars, which gives scope for upper body work. 

 The fq was variable in this test machine and I used it right up to 50hz which would be impossible in a regular pivotal machine.

 Also, as an extra, this specific test machine could be set to a cyclic mode where the vibration pulsed in a cyclic motion, leg, arm, arm, leg using both the platform and the handlebars.  This gave a smooth workout suitable for physio use and I loved this sensation as I had badly injured shoulders during the time I trialled this machine.  Note: I felt too much vibration transfer to my shoulders using the lineal machines because of my injuries But I used this pivotal platform for about a month and maintained, possibly even increased, my muscle mass, kept my strength and fitness and transitioned back to lineal with no loss of ability when the test machine was taken away.

Lloyd,

As you are aware, I have been doing quite a bit of work over the past 6 months or so with the Vibraflex. Your recent comment about this platform lacking "inertia" is interesting to me and I would appreciate further explanation. Thanks for your time.

John, you said

QUOTE : “I personally feel that when holding static positions, pivotal platforms feel much more muscularly engaging.  Obviously this is because the amplitude is much greater. “ END QUOTE

Amplitude is nothing!

I can tell you that this is very dependent on the brand and actual machine.  Come for a holiday and visit the studio I work at and I’ll put you on a high-force, lineal machine that moves less than 1mm yet the muscle contraction in your quads during a static, 60second basic squat will have you crying. 

While I respect your opinion I suggest you try a VibroGym, BodyShaker, or Vibra-Train, (or a HyperGravity although I have not tried the sports model so can’t validate it). 

The lineal platforms that are “great for fast paced active exercise” are the ones that are too low force for anything else. 

Even within the broad Pivotal and Lineal categorisation there are very differing machines.  I sometimes use a gentle, pivotal, vibration-therapy machine to relieve mild backache and I’ve used a bigger sports model pivotal exercise machine where active movement plus the see-saw vibration = a fitness session. 

“There is a machine for everyone, right?”  Well that depends on what they want to achieve and this needs to be made clear to the person providing the service or selling them the home machine.  I wouldn’t use “comfort” as the determining factor.  And head vibration – when using a high quality machine, it disappears on the second or third visit as that’s when the customer relaxes.  It can be just a tensing of the jaw or shoulders that causes the sensation.

Lloyd,

I like the Pivotal vs Lineal debate you recently republished.  You are right, it is a sales gimmick with many companies. This happened with Elliptical machines as well back in the day.   What most people sitll dont understand is that they are an apples to orange comparison.  Its like saying a treadmill and an elliptical are both cardio machines so they must be the same.  No... each has thier own unique properties....ie an elliptical is a low impact cardio device while a treadmill will most likely yeild the best performance results but with a higher risk of injury.    Instead of bashing each others machines we should be encouraging people to use both technologies to understand their differences.  There is a machine out there for everyone right.  Im finding that people either try a pivotal machine first or a lineal machine first and assume that all WBV is like that first machine that they tried.  The reality is if they were able to try both side by side, they will at least like one of them. 

For example I let the customer decide what feels comfortable for them and I encourage the purchase of both types of machines especially when its for a gym or clinic.  If you asked me what I preffer to train on, I would say pivotal becasue I dont like the way some lineal units make my head vibrate. To each their own.... It really comes down to what the user likes.  

On the flip side for transverse vibration positions, I do prefer the lineal machines when I am really sore from weight lifting.   I believe many lineal platforms are great for stretching, massage and fast paced active exercise.  I personally feel that when holding static positions, pivotal platforms feel much more muscularly engaging.  Obviously this is because the amplitude is much greater.  I also think each machine has its applications for sport specific exercise.  For instance we are testing the effect of warm up on a pivotal platform on baseball bat swing velocity.  This makes sense because pivotal platforms force hip articulation and where do you derive swinging power from. YOUR HIPS. i also know that there are some lineal platforms that have tested increases in explosive power and fatloss.  Like I seach each technology has its applications.   Ill keep ya posted on that study ..its due back in about a month. 

Thanks for the article on tucking pelvis under.  Makes perfect sense when explained.  Just another example of how conventional trainin theories are just not transferable.