How rude - you whippersnappers in New Zealand have no idea how to conduct yourselves - but what can you expect from a country that's barely been here for a century!

Re the knee - This is the problem  though if he comes down to 110 degress he feels intense pain in the knee - even using the bars as support - surely that can't be good  - I understand that 110 is the angle whereby all strain is taken out f the knee - but not for him. 

The pain is actually in the knee itself. He never does super squats - always uses handle bars. He has been coming for nearly a year and so is quite strong now (has become a lot slimmer as well as improving knees which is a bonus!)  It is not the training that causes the pain - often he come in pain and feels much better after training.  He has never been clear about what the op was for - think it sounds like it removed cartilige.   He is unable to do a quad stretch - not on the machine I hasten to add -  where you bring the foot up to the buttock behind you - so maybe some sort of  tightness in ligaments/ tendons etc.  Hard to get much else as he doesn't know  and doesn't seem keen on geting a more accurate diagnosis, (remember that conversation we had Lloyd about the British never giving away much information...)  Think maybe we just carry on doing what we're doing - just wondered if there's anything else we can do. 

Philippa...

First off does it hurt his joints, or his muscles just above his knees. Just need to clarify its not just fatigue. A good indication of this is, if it stops as soon as the machine stops, its just fatigue. Joint damage would leave him in pain after and even while walking away from the machine.

As for side supports , you may be able to get something like a Tri-Cep Dip stand for people to use if really needed. They wont vibrate of course, but should do the trick. 

Philippa,  

Is it the current pain that is undiagnosed?   What were the op’s for?  It certainly sounds like your client is benefitting from Vibration Training.  I know you are using the safety program,  http://www.vibra-train.com/exercises-bullet.html  , so he should do basic squat instead of super-squat at the end i.e. using the bullets handlebars for support and check his knee position is not too far forward.  Also that his knees are aligned over his feet, not bow-legged or inward, but you know all this.

The pain I felt during squat positions was more of awareness, warmth feeling but not pleasant.  It is important for him to take rests between positions to allow fatigued muscles to recover.  Also, to rest at the end of the session, before leaving the studio.  It’s that time when legs can feel a bit like jelly that my knee would “catch”.  I can only tell of my experience and your client may have a different condition.  I'll leave Lloyd to answer most of your questions. 

Hi Di

Can you give some more advice on people with knee pain.  Our machines don't have the side handle bars (Would be great if we did...!!!)  So, I have one client in particular with dreadful knees - has had lots of ops - never really been diagnosed. VT has really helped and he has gone from taking 8 painkillers a day to none but he still has slip backs .   When he goes very low into a squats it causes pain. His knee angle is probably about 115-129o - usinf the handles of bullet to take weight (pulling down not back)  He says it feels like the knee is being cut in two.    Are there any other exercises we can add in or what else can we do?  It is really helping but feel we maybe can do more.  What can  we whho haven''t got side bars do when adopting the 110 degree angle with weight in heels causes their knees to hurt? 

Peter Wills

<quote> “I was searching for advice since I went to a session and my knee is killing me today and thinkin' this ain't for moi at all.” </quote>

Do you have a knee injury?  Did you advise the Instructor? More information about the machine you used and the positions you did?  But, I can relate to your knee hurting.  I injured my knee (cartilage tear) running.  Conservative therapies did not help much and when I started at Vibra-Train 3yrs later I could not jog without my knee locking or giving way. 

I used a machine that has side handlebars for extra support in squat positions.  At first my knee hurt during sessions.  Sometimes ached afterwards but by next day my knee did not “lock” or give-way so I continued.  I ran again too soon.  The meniscus tear opened, worse this time.

Going back to Vibra-Train I was taken off the program and did a series of simple squats instead.  Within 2 weeks (6 sessions) I was walking without pain, moved to the full program and got my knee right again, slower this time.  I’m not going to say it’s perfectly healed as cartilage heals slowly and it’s untried but I have no pain, no giving way and I proved first time that rest, massage, meds was not enough.  Please let us advise you.

Just read the review by the professor, what a dangerous idiot. It is excactly this type of marketing bullshit that cost me over $30k and the last 4 years of my life trying to repay it. He has no idea how this type of review can hurt someone.

Thank God for this site, where the consumer can find out how not to get ripped off!!

Dave and Booge,

Have you guys read even the abstract of a study by Ness et al. out of the U of Miami (Gait Posture. July 31,2009) that showed improved walking ability in patients with incomplete spinal cord injuries after a month of three times a week vibration treatments?  This pilot study involved the Miami Project to Cure Paralysis, the medical school at the U of Miami, and the department of bioengineering at the U of Miami.  It's available at www.nlm.nih.gov, click on PubMed, and type in vibration training or vibration exercise as search terms. 

To me, something that may benefit people being able to walk, is not "garbage."  The U of Miami and The Project to Cure Paralysis must not think vibration is garbage. 

Hi Peter

Sounds like you might have gone to a Dave and Boogie style studio - where on poor amchines witha dodgy programme you may well end up in pain.  Virtually all out customers ee a huge improvement with knee and back problems and the for the few who don't it certainly doesn't make it worse - maybe you could share with us where you went so other people can know not to go there .  Be inteested to see if you do.  I f you find somewhere who follows the Safety programme you should see an improvement. 

Thanks  judithlloyd           14

Actually Lloyd if you google "vibration training advice" like I did...you are 3rd.... so search engines found you, not too many else but the search engines find everyone. I was searching for advice since I went to a session and my knee is killing me today and thinkin' this ain't for moi at all. Good luck!

Dave and Boogie

Have you ever tried a high energy lineal platform?  I know without asking that the answer is undoubtedly a resounding 'No'.  If you had there is no way you would doubt the ability of Vibration Training to fatigue the muscles and thus create muscle growth.  I am wondering how your alleged 'evidence' can explain away  how we have a Britain strong man, a triathlete, a black belt kickboxer to name but a few dripping with sweat and walking home with jelly legs having done a 15 minute session with us.  Maybe you could also account for the numerous women who have dropped 2 dress sizes after a few months having done no other form of exercise or  changing their diet?

You are right in that the industry suffers from little hard evidence but I do find it astounding that the people who see to wish to throw stones at what we do have NEVER actually tried it properly.  Without doing so you are talking from total ignorance - at least have the integrity and the guts to actually try the thing you are claiming to know so much about (in a proper studio with decent machines) and then you might actually be worth listening to. 

I agree with Dave in Chicago, we studied the machines for our chain of assisted living homes here in the U.K and ran across this study. We actually called Abercromby and discussed the benefit. The only reason we considered the machines was because my nephew was selling them as a sales rep. Not anymore though. The findings were that they can at lower Hz (cheaper machines) encourage bone density and blood flow but no other benefits. The higher Hz machines were to not even consider.

So we decided not to and invested in regular fitness machines with were easier to fix. Another downside to these things was the inability to get them properly serviced.

Certainly, research done by doctors and not personal trainers with websites.... sure here you go. We helped with the supply of the machines for this experiment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17909407

Booge..

The fact you just got a masage belt and Vibration training mixed up, or you think a $200 Vibration Therapy machine from Asia is what we use, means you are an idiot with zero logic and knowledge.

And making up scaremongering bullshit like " it causes brain damage "  has all been said before,you are a bit slow on that one. Its all been proven wrong over time. But thanks for showing the readers their are still cavemen around and about willing to spread their "opinions".

Note: If you want to stand by your statements, put your real name up, not some cowardly made up name.  

Vibration training is garbage. It's like those straps that rubbed your belly in the 60's a passing fad. Don't fall for this garbage. I was in Taiwan and it costs about $200 to make one. The British journal of medicine has proof that it can cause ligament damage to the knees (duh) and even brain damage. You want to get fit? Cardio workouts, another (duh)

Gotta love this review of the My3  ...

" Power Plate is by far the most recognized and popular vibration trainer on the market.   With quality components, aesthetically pleasing designs and major health club experience, their home models are solid performers. "

They are talking about the same company that had to move their factories out of China because the quality was so bad . Meanwhile telling the consumer they were built in Europe ?  THE worst reputation in the industry for just about every unethical thing you can think of.

They seem to actually give them points for putting all their money into its bullshit marketing and none into the product.  

Knee, hip replacements etc... are all ok to use with the machine unless they are damaged of course. But they can only do "assisted" poses for legs. That means they use side handle bars ( or some other side supports ) to take the "pressure" out of the pose. Note: The speed or amplitude has nothing to do with this. It is the entire body weight you do not want behind the pose.

http://vibra-train.co.nz/mewebmail/HooDoo/lang/EN/login.aspx