Not Lloyd, but that reminds me of that Crazy Fit that does not have the handles. Plastic pivotal made in China (Russia?) I imagine you don't have to worry about damage at that low a frequency, it's just a therapy unit.

Lloyd,

This is me again, sorry for delay. I placed video on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYpeO4s_pXY

This is for home use, but they have for commercial use. There is no data about frequency, but speed is from 1 to 20.

According to my simple calculation level 1 is 2Hz, level 10 is about 7 o r8Hz, level 20 should be about 10 or 12Hz

But the load is unique, because you feel balance training and vibration same time

But Im worry about low vibration damage because of resonance frequency towards human organs like brain, eyes, heart.

What do you think, guys

My regards,

Hi JM, I was the one offered an Air Reflex for 4500, I went with the Contour Plus instead. I am in the US. I believe they have since then raised the price back up to $5500 on the Air Reflex. It was MikeP on here who got that price (4500) originally. If you email Rochelle at Wave and ask her, she may offer you a discount, but I have no idea if one can be had in Australia. Yes Wave is located in Canada.

Hi Everyone

I live in Perth, WA 

Can I purchase a WAVE Air Reflex in Australia

Also where did people purchase the WAVE for 4500. Was it from Canada

Thanks

Anyone else just get a lot of emails from Josh Hayon and Hypergravity? I was under the impression he was or was nearly out of business? Instead I visited his website and it appears they have like 17 different models? (over kill much?) Has anyone had more recent experience with their products than what was related earlier?

(Oh and Lloyd, he claims to build his own motors, just FYI. Believe it?)

Ok, now you have got me thinking. I got a couple questions, because I am doing some guess work here:

How does a company like say Power Plate or Wave do the low/high amplitude settings? Is it done by having two motors and just activating one at a time, say one with a heavier weight attached to achieve higher amplitude? (Just my first guess.)

What kind(s) of motor(s) are best suited for this kind of application? DC or AC? Would something like those concrete mixer motors be usable, or is there a reason why not?

What is a good material to use for an isolator?

(Of course, anything that's a trade secret can be held back/emailed to me as preferred; notnospam@gmail.com is the address). And any other hints anyone would care to drop, fire away. Of course what I am looking at here would be lineal; I have no idea how to build a pivotal. Maybe I should take the Crazy Fit apart; it's been knocking lately on the left hand side...

Mike M

Don’t get me wrong – I was just having a little fun; you’ll soon get used to our Kiwi ways. Like Lloyd says – you have gained a huge amount of understanding in a very short time. My jest was an acknowledgment of that.

Of course I have bias toward the machines brand that I use BUT I love trying others and being able to recommend them to people who have no access to Vibra-Train.

No no no, I was not about to build one, Di you must have missed the winkie (here's another one) ;-) don't they use those in NZ?

No I was just injecting a little light hearted humor here, and then I was doing that reading I mentioned, which had the EMG graph. And I also noted (as an aside) that the Galileo which I think he rated at 16G also had comparable (I would call it, pretty equal) EMG effect to the Vibrogym. This though the platforms are really different otherwise.

My question would be, isn't EMG what it's all about, really? If you can't elicit a response from the muscle fibers, why are you bothering? And the greater response seems to come from the heavier platforms. In fact I looked at the DKN XG5 versus XG10 EMG graphs and they look very close to me - both are the same weight - not sure there's enough performance difference between the two to warrant two separate models.

I wish there were more platform tests somewhere that showed the EMG graph. ESPECIALLY on the current Wave models...

Mike M

You sound almost ready to give it a go and build your own machine so, rather laughingly; here are some tips for your weekend project:

1. Just because it vibrates, it’s probably not a valid platform for building muscle strength or even for therapy and not necessarily safe either– a washing machine lid vibrates and so does a pneumatic drill.

2. The motor force generally cannot exceed the durability of the surrounding platform – or it might explode into a million little pieces or crack in two. Have you ever had that happen to those arcoroc glass or pyrex coffee mugs we used to get? The simple vibration of the microwave killed a few of mine.  Or the motor or other component might just stop working – financial disaster in a commercial setting.

3. Vibration direction control – linear, 3D, uncontrolled – remember you are human and your body needs to be able to respond in a beneficial way. So much more than mixing concrete.

4. Lloyd Shaw uses a (currently secret, like Colonel Saunders of KFC) 9-part equation to produce his machines – don’t ask me, last time I tried I got to 4 parts. And, as he says below, “I will not release any further engineering info until the industry is in a safer place”.  

4. In my time in this industry I’ve seen some rather amusing copies of Vibra-Train brand machines or where individual components were copied quite well, and then placed incorrectly – the big hint here is, don’t try to copy, design your own, you seem quite able to.

And my biggest tip – move here to New Zealand where you come and train on the world’s best (apologises to others here, of course I am biased)

Mike M

I’ve seen a similar video that was actually for a vibration platform for human use rather than for mixing concrete

How close is that one to a commercial training platform? -  a million miles away – you go figure it (It’s like the marketers theory, that if it vibrates it’s good for training *huge laugh*)

Your comment about G Force, EMG and motors – have you read this article: http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/extra-force-better-training-results

But, being provocative here, I’ve seen it done exactly with just one motor though most of the high force machines I’ve tried have had two. 

I was nosing around the site www.vibrationtrainingdevice.com just now, and noticed something of interest. If you look at this page

http://www.vibrationtrainingdevice.com/VG-Evolution-I-Vibrogym.htm

where he reviews the Vibrogym VG Evolution whose G rating is given as 10G, then look at the blue graph EMG muscular activity that it about 2/3 of the way down the page, and then take a look at this page

http://www.vibrationtrainingdevice.com/XG10.htm

where he reviews the DKN XG10, and again look at the blue EMG graph about middle of that page, you should note that the EMG level is about half what is shown for Vibrogym, even though the DKN is rated at 12G versus 10G for the Vibrogym.

How to explain it? Well, I will note that the VG is listed as having 2 engines at 350W and the DKN as having one engine. And the weight of DKN is 141 lbs but VG is 308.

Is that the main difference? Mass of the platform and two versus one engine driving it? Why is the G force rating so similar yet the EMG result so much higher on VG? Are his measurements incorrect in some way?

Legal action? What legal action?

Hey, I was nosing around youtube today and ran across this item. Take a look and tell me what you think. How far is one of these from a commercial training platform? ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWImU7CCU8g

Kevin

Thank you for the links – very interesting.

I can see why you experienced back discomfort from the lineal machine; your squat is not deep enough.  On a pivotal machine this isn’t as specific until you get to higher fq.  As I said before, some studios have machines with side, vibrating handlebars designed for use by people who need that support and giving an upper body workout while in squat position (none in U.K. at present).  Philippa certainly gave you a very good start; your initial results are exciting.  It’s disappointing you can’t find sponsorship, have you approached Galileo?  In New Zealand Vibra-Train provides free therapy and training sessions, in studio, for some people who have life threatening conditions (M.D. and morbid obesity are two that come to mind). Lloyd Shaw has always done this – but only in conjunction with the client’s doctors, to show their progress over a period of time.

Dean

Thank you again for telling us of your experiences.  The PowerPlate demonstrator has now learnt why we don’t use dynamic positions on high energy, lineal platforms.  Two minutes of a basic squat (110 degrees) is much safer, feels very intense, and gives the results wanted by athletes.

Few days ago I presented a lecture on a meeting organized by Croatian Olympic comeete for MD's and PT's involved in sports medicine, and sponsored by company that represents Powerplate in Croatia. The lecture was about benefits of vibration therapy and training, with focus on pro athletes. Also, I brought one of our Bodyshakers with me, so doctors and colleagues can experience what strong lineal vibration feels like, and why I recommend static positions, and safety program.
Now, there are two stories, from that meeting, that I feel are worth sheering.
First, evidence based approach.
In their promo lecture, as sponsors, Powerplate cited one study from 2007. done in Israel on 20 athletes which undergo reconstruction of  LCA (knee ligament). They were divided in two groups, from which one undergo classic rehabilitation process, and the other exercises on Powerplate for a month. Stability of the knee was assessed before, and after a month on both groups, and results were in favor of vibration training, regarding greater stability gained in same amount of time in comparison to standard RHB process. So evidence is here right? Well...
Since colleagues from Powerplate were so nice to distribute this study in whole (not just abstract) one little fact catch my eye. In detailed description of procedures used both in vibration and control group it become evident that single leg exercises were done on vibration plate since day 4 of study, but almost no single leg exercises were done in control group. Every PT would see a problem there. So is there a benefit from VT in postoperative knee treatment in correlation to regular approach? I think it is. But how much is remain to be seen in better designed studies. Not to mention that Fq and amplitude are only thing measured in vibration in this particular study. 
Second, one of  Powerplate demonstrators wanted to try Bodyshaker. But not static positions, instead she was persistent to try jumping on the plate (thus copy what she is doing on much weaker vibration). She was surprised with force of vibration. I tried to explain force of vibration in KN, but she said that numbers means nothing to her. Even my attempt to show that, if we want, we can achieve lower intensity of vibration with higher amplitude, was totally strange to her. This is a pity, since she showed great passion for promotion of vibration training and therapy. Well, if that passion remains, knowledge is not so hard to gain, with some time and effort.

In past, especially when I started my adventure with vibration training and therapy I though that Lloyd is wrong, or at least exaggerate problems regarding poor study design, and low level of knowledge of people who presents themselves as experts. I'm not so sure about that any more.

 

Lloyd

I am still using the basics shown by Phillippa, and believe that is the way to continue. I have modified some of the positions to suit my needs and the pivotal machine. The lat position is very aggressive on a pivotal so I omitted it. Push ups are fine and I introduced one where you simply sit in the middle lean back and engage the abs. The squats are just semi semi-squats and you can adjust your weight to focus on different muscle groups. Straps are not on the Galileo Sport so I am  in the dark if this would help with the upper body.

I believe that the benefits from WBV for neuromuscular disease is totally overlooked by the medical profession, and most of these diseases do not have any treatment available, WBV will not cure but can make a substantial difference to the quality of life. Ironically one the driving factors in the development of the Galileo was muscle tone improvement on brittle bone disease patients. Over the years the focus has changed to general fitness and understandable so due to potential sales. There is also very few if any that are knowledgeable in vibration training for neuromuscular diseases, that why I log my sessions and post reaction, so that my body acts like a barometer to the training I am doing. Until there is monetary incentives I can’t see this scenario changing much. However, my results speak for themselves, my pelvis has become stable (first time in years) and my general fitness is not decreasing, if anything increasing. This achieved using a machine once or twice a week. I think the benefits would even more encouraging if I used a machine at least 3 times week, and this is my aim, hence the last post.  

There has been a trial done with one Pompe patient using a Galileo in Canada see:-

http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/crm/2009/741087.pdf

I have also done a couple of articles on my WBVexperiences see:-

http://www.pompe.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=44&Itemid=66

All the best

Kevin A

Hello Lloyd,    I am looking to start vibration training for osteoporosis but before I do my doctor has

asked me to find out the amps and speed of the vibratrain machine, please could you supply me

with  that information

Vladimir,

I cannot read the information about the plate.  Lloyd would be better to respond than I about this.  I can tell you Dr. Alex Mikheev who was based in Minsk, Belarus closer to you has done a large amount of work on vibration since the 80s.  I met with Dr. Mikheev in Los Angeles in 2004.  Alex is a nice guy too and could be a potential contact for you.

John Weatherly

Dear Experts

During last days I have studied huge info about vibration. Your web site seems to be very professional.

We have partner in South Korea that make very intereting machine. The round plate vibrates not linear, but not only 3D. The plate is like rounding with stable amplitude 10mm

http://fitdivision.ru/catalog/uniq/176/589/

Did you see something like this before

Whats your opinion regarding this plate. Can this be interesting and make positive effect

My best regards