Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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Mike Hair Posted On:2009-10-06 21:04:35

Well i have just finished my 4th work out on our new vibra-train machine, it is truly an unbelievable machine. My biceps are bigger than they where when i was pushing weights 12 months ago and my chest is fricken massive Lol. The definition in my tricep muscles is awesome.

I think I have created a bit of a headache for myself as all my clients are fighting to get on it, might have to set up a ring and have jelly wrestling, only the winners can use the machine.....HA HA

The woman love the machine and we are getting more guys coming in each day and leaving defeated. I call our machine MAXIMUS PRIME..... the ultimate transformer.

 
John Posted On:2009-10-06 05:12:45

Good artilces Lloyd and Di.  The article on muscle wasting and vibration is excellent and written so the layperson can understand it.  More information is coming out all the time.  You may want to check www.nlm.nih.gov, click on PubMed, and type in "vibration exercise" for recent abstracts of studies.  One by Kemmler out of Germany looked at neuromuscular responses in females over 65 years of age with a year of vibration exercise, conventional exercise, and a control group.  Both the vibration exercise and conventional exercise groups showed improvements but it appears from the abstract that the vibration exercise group improved the most.  This looks like a good study because it was done over a year and had two exercise groups along with the control group.

John Weatherly

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2009-10-05 20:38:30

As you can see we have added a few articles contributed by myself and other people today. Some are older articles we are just catching up on. In future they will be updated more regularly.  

 We have also added "THE BLACKLIST" which is a list of companies or people we recommend not to buy product off or do business with for various reasons. This will also be updated regularly as more dodgy operators surface. The likes of Power Plate, Kevin Yeaman  and the Kraaijenhof  brothers will be getting their own articles so the consumer can see the kinds of things that need to be stamped out if we are ever to have a clean industry.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com Posted On:2009-09-28 23:41:50
Will tell the tech guy.
 
 If it happens it is usually a sign of someone trying to hack into the site. Just type your message up in your email, then copy and paste if it happens again..
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com Posted On:2009-09-27 23:49:03

Philippa...

Seeing as you have a level 2 & 3 imagine another few steps up, but biomechanics allows me to make it feel just as comfortable while producing a higher resistance level in the muscle. Even going up to 6mm amplitude it still feels very smooth.      

 

 
MikeHair Posted On:2009-09-27 12:32:08

Thanks guys.

I think Lloyd would be best to answer your question philippa, I think a force 3 puts you into about 8 or 9 times your own body weight were as a force 5 is around 12 times. Therefore you get a much harder workout where your body has to respond even more. Remember the harder the machine pushes you the harder your body pushes back. 

I let my 19 year old son try a full body tricep dip last night and he was at complete failure after 38 seconds, he had to jump off. Lol.  And he is very strong and fit, into martail arts and at the gym doing heavy weights 3 times a week.

Also my bodybuilder friend, ex NewZealand champion, tried full body tricep dip, only just made it, then full body bicep curl, struggled with that to Lol. He couldnt believe the pump he had after only 2 minutes.

Lloyd has truly created an increadible product that will revolutionise the way we view training in the future, and the best part is this is only a glimpse of what he is going to create.

 
PhilippaChurch Posted On:2009-09-26 20:26:54

Congratulations Mike thats great news.  Cant wait to hear how people get on.  How much tougher is the Force 5 that the Force 3

 
Keith Posted On:2009-09-26 17:04:49

Congratulations Mike. May the Force be with you.

 
MikeHair Posted On:2009-09-26 14:56:39

Well its finally happened, we have just taken possession of the most powerful vibration training device in the world, a force 5 vibra-train machine yahooooo.

After 3 years of constant phone calls and flying from one end of the country to the other, We are vibra-trains latest licenced studio.

This has not been an easy road, we started with a pivotal system but found out within 3 months the results were limited. We then went on to a professional lineal system with vibrogyms which has seen us right up till now. 

After flying to Auckland last week for more training I helped Lloyd hand build what is only one of three force 5 machines in the world and shipped it to my place. The other two are at his head studio.

Spending time with Lloyd has helped me understand the physics behind the machine and why a safety programe is so important. Precise angles make all the difference between a workout or an injury.

About an hour ago I put my wife and a customer, who has been with us for 4 months, through the safety programe on the force 5 and they both said how much smoother the workout was, the wife is still complaining about her triceps, and the customer  was wiping sweat from her face. These machines are just incredible, they tend to sneak up and whack you in the muscle when you least expect it.

A big thankyou to Lloyd Shaw and vibra-train for their hard work and relentless support.

And just to think this all started because I picked up the phone and talked to the competition.....

 
LloydShaw Posted On:2009-09-25 17:56:19

I would like to add, remember there is no such thing as a bad machine, just bad unethical marketers.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com Posted On:2009-09-25 17:16:40

 

Not a bad little review of different retail units on this site...

http://www.vibration-trainer-review.co.uk/index.html

It is run by Monika Akabusi who obviously got off her ass and tried the different machines. As a Personal Trainer she seems to understand the "feel" of the machine is important ( not just the specs on a piece of paper ) , and I sent her a link to this site so hopefully she can incorporate some of this general knowledge into her attempts to protect the consumer. 

She hasn't reviewed any High Energy Lineals yet, so that will be interesting if she can get to a studio to try one out. 

 
Mike Hair Posted On:2009-09-22 22:10:46

Ha Ha, yea i noticed that too, if  i recall hypergravity accused you of copying power plate. Now after they copied vibrogym they have gone on to try and copy your design. I wonder if there is a reason for his double plate or he is trying to look like vibra train. a nice complement  to you Lloyd.

At the end of the day until they understand the physics behind the machine they still will not come close to what Lloyd has designed.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com Posted On:2009-09-22 17:41:43
Here is a funny thing....
 
The owner of HyperGravity was recently caught putting my workmanship down, then confirmed his opinion via email to me in less than flattering terms ( so this was not hear-say ). Despite the fact I had been helping him get his company known and into the commercial sector.( that's the thanks I get sometimes )  But if you check out his new "modification" to his Elite Sports Pro you will see him copying the double base system I use on all my machines for years.
 
 I am always flattered when another manufacturer copies my designs, and in fact expect all my designs to be replicated eventually as this is how any industry moves forward,  but does this now mean he likes my work ?  
 
Di Heap Posted On:2009-09-22 14:50:05

Oh Yeah, we are so mean and nasty!  Really?  Judge for yourself.   I just had a lady come into the studio, (she was going door to door of businesses), asking for a donation to help with the next Para-Olympics.  Better than a donation, she got a lesson on what Vibration Training on high quality machines can do for people with disabilities.  I also told her that many of the people who would compete in para-olympics would be eligible to use our studio for free, no-charge, zilch!  That’s a service we provide, not for every disability but for life-threatening and severe permanent conditions. 

The people we are “nasty” to are the ones who risk people’s health/fitness by not knowing what they are doing and not wanting to learn; the people who are in this industry only to make money (also no real concern for the customers); the people who think they are above taking advice from others who have done the “hard yards” before them; manufacturers and sellers of low quality machines who pass them off as the best and charge top prices instead of being honest; and others of similar ilk.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com Posted On:2009-09-21 16:05:36
I has been relayed to me we are a "nasty bunch" on this forum. I suspect this is because we do not keep silent on certain issues "marketers" and "business people" do not want discussed. 
 
Sorry to upset the apple cart, but I am afraid things like ethics and safety will be discussed here, out in the open like they should be, so the consumer can be aware of them and judge the behavior for themselves.
 
Please Note: The reason this forum now exists is the last one tried to censor topics relating to negative aspects of our industry. Anyone is welcome to come on and defend their actions if they feel we have gotten things wrong. So far history has shown us those in the wrong never front up to answer questions. 
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com Posted On:2009-09-21 01:02:10

We are getting to #1 as fast as possible. Takes allot of work and time. So unfortunately the only outside visits we have gotten to date are those I invite to attack us. Just for the sport of it Smile emoticon 

Josh ...

Well here is something you might be able to do to help the industry. Some customers of HyperGravity in the U.K. are going to get lessons off Power Plate. Again showing me they have zero understanding of the difference in products. Power Plates best unit is about a 3rd as powerful as the model they have. So what they learn will not necessarily transfer to safe usage on their units. and you KNOW Power Plate will not tell them there is a difference.( They still tell people all vibration is the same ) . I hope you see the danger in this and can do something. 

I have sent them a message, but they are better than all of us here apparently, so to date have shown us no respect. 

  

 
Di Heap Posted On:2009-09-20 22:46:15

Hey Keith and welcome.  We’ve said it before.  Just wait till we get the All Blacks training on our Vibra-Train machines; we’ll conquer the world!  We’re working on getting this site up top in the Google ratings.  It takes click-through from other sites and more but we’re getting there fast!

 
Keith Proctor Posted On:2009-09-20 20:46:52

Hi Guys

Ive been following the advice freely given by Lloyd Shaw on training and which machine to purchase and have been going for 2 years now on vibration training having given up the sweaty Virgin gym machines a year ago.

I value also the advice and opinions of others who contribute to this site like Mike Hair Di Heap et al. I have assisted friends with back problems following advice received from Lloyd and in one case avoided a back operation to one of my employees.

So the suggestion is to make sure you have the qualifications before calling Lloyd an idiot.

Sorry about the Tri Nations Mike and not a word about athletics SA please.

Are there any other search terms besides vibration training advice to use on google to get this site more recognised. I had to get here through Lloyds site.

 
MikeHair Posted On:2009-09-19 15:16:47
It's funny how time has a way of dealing too greedy underhanded people.
I have noticed quite a few people come and go over the last 4 years in the VT industry, mostly because they had the wrong motive, now I know you get into business to make money and succeed, but if that is your only motive then you will fail!
 
In this industry you are taking money from the public and they are trusting that you know what you are doing, so if you are not passionate about there health and safety every time they walk through you're door, you won't have them as a customer for long.
 
What confuses me the most is that not many people communicate before they open a studio. I fully understand the "don't talk to the competition" but if I had not picked up the phone and called Lloyd from Vibra-train I would not be in business today.
 
I was competition to Vibra-train, but had no other option, we had only been open for about 3 months and our machines started to break. Speaking with Lloyd helped us to keep our doors open, Lloyd was not only honest but has done everything within his power to help us, because of this we are now in our 4th year of operation, were as, all they other companies that have started in a underhanded way and refused to follow a safety program or communicate have disappeared.
 
This does not have to be a "we are better than them industry" there is enough room for everybody, all it takes is to be honest, upfront and communicate. 
 
If you are struggling just pick up the phone and talk with someone who has been around awhile, you may be surprised by the help you receive.
 
 
 
  
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com Posted On:2009-09-19 13:49:10
Well I have seen it all before, so I am not surprised, but always disappointed. A studio that has recently opened in the U.K.  someone that chose to act underhanded and sneaky, and when we asked why that was needed, they just said, "that's just business , get over it "  is following the exact pattern of behavior we have seen in N.Z., when greed is the only motive to get involved in the industry. These people are always marketing types, always looking for the next get rich quick scheme. 
 
This is the pattern I have now seen my competition take ......   
 
(a)  Opens studio with some skullduggery or secrecy involved. They always think this makes them clever somehow, but in reality it just makes them look dodgy. People who are really confident at what they do, hide nothing.
 
(b)  Starts putting down the competition straight away, even though that's where they got the idea of entering the industry in the first place from, and everyone around them knows it. Even those closest to them find it kinda underhanded, but they say nothing. I always find this hilarious, because this bluff never works and only makes them look scared.
 
(c) They become instant experts.  Usually by reading other peoples material, the same ones they have no respect for now.
 
(d) As any marketer does they put massive effort into getting people in the door, any trick will do. They are quite often very good at this.   
 
(e) Once in the door though, they show zero interest in safe training methods and actually damage the industry they have just entered. But as the money going through the till is their ONLY indication of success they simply don't care.
 
 
They will eventually close after the honeymoon period is over, and their customers get sick of the BS marketing with no substance. As you can not fake passion for this industry for long, the customers do pick up on in eventually, and will leave.
 
Now if you think I am exaggerating or making this up, I will actually list the businesses that decided to 'Go into competition " with me with some, or all of the above attitude. Some even openly stated when they launched they would "crush me" ( how neighborly )  You can research this for yourself to find out if they are still around...... 
 
Power Plate
Vibra-Gym
Nemes
Vibex
Elite-Fitness/Rocket Fitness
Peak-Vibe
Vibra-Fit
 
 
I could tell you a story about each of them that would make you say, Oh that's not very nice". But the guts of it is if they had spent half their time making friends, instead of having meetings with lawyers , franchise gurus and "wealth creators" ( greed creators )  etc...  they would have found that not everybody operates like "Dog eat Dog " And other problems they have had could have been sorted out. As my company has expanded ( so the market share is there ) they have shrunken, disappeared altogether or are stuck going nowhere.
 
Learn from others mistakes or be doomed to repeat them.     
 
PhilippaChurch Posted On:2009-09-18 20:50:50

Thanks.  Have someone coming to train from Croatia who is setting up a studio there next week  and was just thinking if there were any other options in terms of machines other than Vibra train, BodyShaker, Vibrogym and we are also visiting a Hypergravity so he can see it although it is not one I will be recommending.  Do we know how the Evolution has fared in commercial settings its the only one other than Vibratrain and HG that has the capacity to fine tune frequency.

 
LloydShaw Posted On:2009-09-18 15:40:43
DKN have moved forward quite nicely into Medium Energy Lineal steel units. Not quite up to the level we are used to, but better than what's on offer in most countries.  Time will tell how well they do in a busy studio/gym environment. As the industry has learnt, lots of companies like Power Plate and HyperGravity have claimed "true" commercial toughness, only to see them fall apart under pressure.
 
I would personally like to see a machine run the length of its warranty, being hammered every day, before I made a judgment call.          
 
MikeHair Posted On:2009-09-18 11:36:46

Hi Philippa.

I think the dkn falls into medium to low speed lineal. Not suitable for a studio as the results would be limited, and i dont think the machine would stand up to the abuse a busy studio would throw at it.

most likely good for a physio practice.

I see what you mean about the punctuation.

 
PhilippaChurch Posted On:2009-09-18 08:58:44

Has anyone had experience of DKN.  We dont have them at all here in UK.  Am wondering what they compare to,  particularly their pro model.  Would they be an option for a studio

 BTW..... I cant seem to get various punctuation typing in here such as question marks.

 
PhilippaChurch Posted On:2009-09-16 19:05:08

Thanks Di  will keep you updated. 

 
Di Heap Posted On:2009-09-16 08:53:58

Favouring one side can be from a knee problem but could also be an imbalance in or lack of core strength.  If so, using the Safety Program and ensuring the customer never veers from the order of positions soon corrects this.  I love seeing the changes customers get within a few weeks.

Philippa, does your client have any long-term swelling above the knee?  I was also unable to do a quad stretch for past year and found the basic squat do-able but difficult.  My only “treatment” this year has been vibration training.  Scar tissue from injury or surgery impairs movement and again Vibration Training/Therapy helps break this up.  As he is slowly improving I’d encourage him to continue and it would be good to also get a current diagnosis, could be it will show the improvements and give him peace of mind.

 
DanPelletier Posted On:2009-09-15 12:32:59

Hey  everyone, while were on the topic of knees, we have the same issues with a small percent of our current clients using the safety program.  I have always questioned fatique vrs joint issue expecially when we have ensured pose is being held correctly.  My knees thank goodness are just fine and have never caused me any issues but Deb has and we have caught people favouring the stronger side not only during vibration training but in day to day activities as well.

This favouring, could this be causing irritation and what about tension during use, are they relaxing or could nerves be bringing on unwanted tension while there holding the pose.

 
Philippa Church Posted On:2009-09-14 00:20:19

How rude - you whippersnappers in New Zealand have no idea how to conduct yourselves - but what can you expect from a country that's barely been here for a century!

Re the knee - This is the problem  though if he comes down to 110 degress he feels intense pain in the knee - even using the bars as support - surely that can't be good  - I understand that 110 is the angle whereby all strain is taken out f the knee - but not for him. 

 
Lloyd Posted On:2009-09-13 23:46:25
Philippa.... There are 2 types of Poms ...
 
(a)  The whingers ....  " Oh aye , I ain't got nowt  but a cup of cha , and Stan the Man just ran off with me airdresser  "
 
(b)  The stoics ...    " Yes I understand everybody's dead,  and yes I am pretty jolly upset about it "
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2009-09-13 23:38:49

If he feels better after training then that is a good sign. If it was causing actual damage it would be similar to any other sports injury, Immediate pain that does not go away.

It sounds like its irritating exposed nerves, which is something that may never go away.  You do really need to get him down to 110 degrees somehow though, this reduces wear on the remaining cartilage and gives it a chance to reform in the correct shape. 

 
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