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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com Posted On:2009-09-25 17:16:40

 

Not a bad little review of different retail units on this site...

http://www.vibration-trainer-review.co.uk/index.html

It is run by Monika Akabusi who obviously got off her ass and tried the different machines. As a Personal Trainer she seems to understand the "feel" of the machine is important ( not just the specs on a piece of paper ) , and I sent her a link to this site so hopefully she can incorporate some of this general knowledge into her attempts to protect the consumer. 

She hasn't reviewed any High Energy Lineals yet, so that will be interesting if she can get to a studio to try one out. 

 
Mike Hair Posted On:2009-09-22 22:10:46

Ha Ha, yea i noticed that too, if  i recall hypergravity accused you of copying power plate. Now after they copied vibrogym they have gone on to try and copy your design. I wonder if there is a reason for his double plate or he is trying to look like vibra train. a nice complement  to you Lloyd.

At the end of the day until they understand the physics behind the machine they still will not come close to what Lloyd has designed.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com Posted On:2009-09-22 17:41:43
Here is a funny thing....
 
The owner of HyperGravity was recently caught putting my workmanship down, then confirmed his opinion via email to me in less than flattering terms ( so this was not hear-say ). Despite the fact I had been helping him get his company known and into the commercial sector.( that's the thanks I get sometimes )  But if you check out his new "modification" to his Elite Sports Pro you will see him copying the double base system I use on all my machines for years.
 
 I am always flattered when another manufacturer copies my designs, and in fact expect all my designs to be replicated eventually as this is how any industry moves forward,  but does this now mean he likes my work ?  
 
Di Heap Posted On:2009-09-22 14:50:05

Oh Yeah, we are so mean and nasty!  Really?  Judge for yourself.   I just had a lady come into the studio, (she was going door to door of businesses), asking for a donation to help with the next Para-Olympics.  Better than a donation, she got a lesson on what Vibration Training on high quality machines can do for people with disabilities.  I also told her that many of the people who would compete in para-olympics would be eligible to use our studio for free, no-charge, zilch!  That’s a service we provide, not for every disability but for life-threatening and severe permanent conditions. 

The people we are “nasty” to are the ones who risk people’s health/fitness by not knowing what they are doing and not wanting to learn; the people who are in this industry only to make money (also no real concern for the customers); the people who think they are above taking advice from others who have done the “hard yards” before them; manufacturers and sellers of low quality machines who pass them off as the best and charge top prices instead of being honest; and others of similar ilk.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com Posted On:2009-09-21 16:05:36
I has been relayed to me we are a "nasty bunch" on this forum. I suspect this is because we do not keep silent on certain issues "marketers" and "business people" do not want discussed. 
 
Sorry to upset the apple cart, but I am afraid things like ethics and safety will be discussed here, out in the open like they should be, so the consumer can be aware of them and judge the behavior for themselves.
 
Please Note: The reason this forum now exists is the last one tried to censor topics relating to negative aspects of our industry. Anyone is welcome to come on and defend their actions if they feel we have gotten things wrong. So far history has shown us those in the wrong never front up to answer questions. 
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com Posted On:2009-09-21 01:02:10

We are getting to #1 as fast as possible. Takes allot of work and time. So unfortunately the only outside visits we have gotten to date are those I invite to attack us. Just for the sport of it Smile emoticon 

Josh ...

Well here is something you might be able to do to help the industry. Some customers of HyperGravity in the U.K. are going to get lessons off Power Plate. Again showing me they have zero understanding of the difference in products. Power Plates best unit is about a 3rd as powerful as the model they have. So what they learn will not necessarily transfer to safe usage on their units. and you KNOW Power Plate will not tell them there is a difference.( They still tell people all vibration is the same ) . I hope you see the danger in this and can do something. 

I have sent them a message, but they are better than all of us here apparently, so to date have shown us no respect. 

  

 
Di Heap Posted On:2009-09-20 22:46:15

Hey Keith and welcome.  We’ve said it before.  Just wait till we get the All Blacks training on our Vibra-Train machines; we’ll conquer the world!  We’re working on getting this site up top in the Google ratings.  It takes click-through from other sites and more but we’re getting there fast!

 
Keith Proctor Posted On:2009-09-20 20:46:52

Hi Guys

Ive been following the advice freely given by Lloyd Shaw on training and which machine to purchase and have been going for 2 years now on vibration training having given up the sweaty Virgin gym machines a year ago.

I value also the advice and opinions of others who contribute to this site like Mike Hair Di Heap et al. I have assisted friends with back problems following advice received from Lloyd and in one case avoided a back operation to one of my employees.

So the suggestion is to make sure you have the qualifications before calling Lloyd an idiot.

Sorry about the Tri Nations Mike and not a word about athletics SA please.

Are there any other search terms besides vibration training advice to use on google to get this site more recognised. I had to get here through Lloyds site.

 
MikeHair Posted On:2009-09-19 15:16:47
It's funny how time has a way of dealing too greedy underhanded people.
I have noticed quite a few people come and go over the last 4 years in the VT industry, mostly because they had the wrong motive, now I know you get into business to make money and succeed, but if that is your only motive then you will fail!
 
In this industry you are taking money from the public and they are trusting that you know what you are doing, so if you are not passionate about there health and safety every time they walk through you're door, you won't have them as a customer for long.
 
What confuses me the most is that not many people communicate before they open a studio. I fully understand the "don't talk to the competition" but if I had not picked up the phone and called Lloyd from Vibra-train I would not be in business today.
 
I was competition to Vibra-train, but had no other option, we had only been open for about 3 months and our machines started to break. Speaking with Lloyd helped us to keep our doors open, Lloyd was not only honest but has done everything within his power to help us, because of this we are now in our 4th year of operation, were as, all they other companies that have started in a underhanded way and refused to follow a safety program or communicate have disappeared.
 
This does not have to be a "we are better than them industry" there is enough room for everybody, all it takes is to be honest, upfront and communicate. 
 
If you are struggling just pick up the phone and talk with someone who has been around awhile, you may be surprised by the help you receive.
 
 
 
  
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train.Com Posted On:2009-09-19 13:49:10
Well I have seen it all before, so I am not surprised, but always disappointed. A studio that has recently opened in the U.K.  someone that chose to act underhanded and sneaky, and when we asked why that was needed, they just said, "that's just business , get over it "  is following the exact pattern of behavior we have seen in N.Z., when greed is the only motive to get involved in the industry. These people are always marketing types, always looking for the next get rich quick scheme. 
 
This is the pattern I have now seen my competition take ......   
 
(a)  Opens studio with some skullduggery or secrecy involved. They always think this makes them clever somehow, but in reality it just makes them look dodgy. People who are really confident at what they do, hide nothing.
 
(b)  Starts putting down the competition straight away, even though that's where they got the idea of entering the industry in the first place from, and everyone around them knows it. Even those closest to them find it kinda underhanded, but they say nothing. I always find this hilarious, because this bluff never works and only makes them look scared.
 
(c) They become instant experts.  Usually by reading other peoples material, the same ones they have no respect for now.
 
(d) As any marketer does they put massive effort into getting people in the door, any trick will do. They are quite often very good at this.   
 
(e) Once in the door though, they show zero interest in safe training methods and actually damage the industry they have just entered. But as the money going through the till is their ONLY indication of success they simply don't care.
 
 
They will eventually close after the honeymoon period is over, and their customers get sick of the BS marketing with no substance. As you can not fake passion for this industry for long, the customers do pick up on in eventually, and will leave.
 
Now if you think I am exaggerating or making this up, I will actually list the businesses that decided to 'Go into competition " with me with some, or all of the above attitude. Some even openly stated when they launched they would "crush me" ( how neighborly )  You can research this for yourself to find out if they are still around...... 
 
Power Plate
Vibra-Gym
Nemes
Vibex
Elite-Fitness/Rocket Fitness
Peak-Vibe
Vibra-Fit
 
 
I could tell you a story about each of them that would make you say, Oh that's not very nice". But the guts of it is if they had spent half their time making friends, instead of having meetings with lawyers , franchise gurus and "wealth creators" ( greed creators )  etc...  they would have found that not everybody operates like "Dog eat Dog " And other problems they have had could have been sorted out. As my company has expanded ( so the market share is there ) they have shrunken, disappeared altogether or are stuck going nowhere.
 
Learn from others mistakes or be doomed to repeat them.     
 
PhilippaChurch Posted On:2009-09-18 20:50:50

Thanks.  Have someone coming to train from Croatia who is setting up a studio there next week  and was just thinking if there were any other options in terms of machines other than Vibra train, BodyShaker, Vibrogym and we are also visiting a Hypergravity so he can see it although it is not one I will be recommending.  Do we know how the Evolution has fared in commercial settings its the only one other than Vibratrain and HG that has the capacity to fine tune frequency.

 
LloydShaw Posted On:2009-09-18 15:40:43
DKN have moved forward quite nicely into Medium Energy Lineal steel units. Not quite up to the level we are used to, but better than what's on offer in most countries.  Time will tell how well they do in a busy studio/gym environment. As the industry has learnt, lots of companies like Power Plate and HyperGravity have claimed "true" commercial toughness, only to see them fall apart under pressure.
 
I would personally like to see a machine run the length of its warranty, being hammered every day, before I made a judgment call.          
 
MikeHair Posted On:2009-09-18 11:36:46

Hi Philippa.

I think the dkn falls into medium to low speed lineal. Not suitable for a studio as the results would be limited, and i dont think the machine would stand up to the abuse a busy studio would throw at it.

most likely good for a physio practice.

I see what you mean about the punctuation.

 
PhilippaChurch Posted On:2009-09-18 08:58:44

Has anyone had experience of DKN.  We dont have them at all here in UK.  Am wondering what they compare to,  particularly their pro model.  Would they be an option for a studio

 BTW..... I cant seem to get various punctuation typing in here such as question marks.

 
PhilippaChurch Posted On:2009-09-16 19:05:08

Thanks Di  will keep you updated. 

 
Di Heap Posted On:2009-09-16 08:53:58

Favouring one side can be from a knee problem but could also be an imbalance in or lack of core strength.  If so, using the Safety Program and ensuring the customer never veers from the order of positions soon corrects this.  I love seeing the changes customers get within a few weeks.

Philippa, does your client have any long-term swelling above the knee?  I was also unable to do a quad stretch for past year and found the basic squat do-able but difficult.  My only “treatment” this year has been vibration training.  Scar tissue from injury or surgery impairs movement and again Vibration Training/Therapy helps break this up.  As he is slowly improving I’d encourage him to continue and it would be good to also get a current diagnosis, could be it will show the improvements and give him peace of mind.

 
DanPelletier Posted On:2009-09-15 12:32:59

Hey  everyone, while were on the topic of knees, we have the same issues with a small percent of our current clients using the safety program.  I have always questioned fatique vrs joint issue expecially when we have ensured pose is being held correctly.  My knees thank goodness are just fine and have never caused me any issues but Deb has and we have caught people favouring the stronger side not only during vibration training but in day to day activities as well.

This favouring, could this be causing irritation and what about tension during use, are they relaxing or could nerves be bringing on unwanted tension while there holding the pose.

 
Philippa Church Posted On:2009-09-14 00:20:19

How rude - you whippersnappers in New Zealand have no idea how to conduct yourselves - but what can you expect from a country that's barely been here for a century!

Re the knee - This is the problem  though if he comes down to 110 degress he feels intense pain in the knee - even using the bars as support - surely that can't be good  - I understand that 110 is the angle whereby all strain is taken out f the knee - but not for him. 

 
Lloyd Posted On:2009-09-13 23:46:25
Philippa.... There are 2 types of Poms ...
 
(a)  The whingers ....  " Oh aye , I ain't got nowt  but a cup of cha , and Stan the Man just ran off with me airdresser  "
 
(b)  The stoics ...    " Yes I understand everybody's dead,  and yes I am pretty jolly upset about it "
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2009-09-13 23:38:49

If he feels better after training then that is a good sign. If it was causing actual damage it would be similar to any other sports injury, Immediate pain that does not go away.

It sounds like its irritating exposed nerves, which is something that may never go away.  You do really need to get him down to 110 degrees somehow though, this reduces wear on the remaining cartilage and gives it a chance to reform in the correct shape. 

 
Philippa Church Posted On:2009-09-13 21:27:15

The pain is actually in the knee itself. He never does super squats - always uses handle bars. He has been coming for nearly a year and so is quite strong now (has become a lot slimmer as well as improving knees which is a bonus!)  It is not the training that causes the pain - often he come in pain and feels much better after training.  He has never been clear about what the op was for - think it sounds like it removed cartilige.   He is unable to do a quad stretch - not on the machine I hasten to add -  where you bring the foot up to the buttock behind you - so maybe some sort of  tightness in ligaments/ tendons etc.  Hard to get much else as he doesn't know  and doesn't seem keen on geting a more accurate diagnosis, (remember that conversation we had Lloyd about the British never giving away much information...)  Think maybe we just carry on doing what we're doing - just wondered if there's anything else we can do. 

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2009-09-13 18:48:07

Philippa...

First off does it hurt his joints, or his muscles just above his knees. Just need to clarify its not just fatigue. A good indication of this is, if it stops as soon as the machine stops, its just fatigue. Joint damage would leave him in pain after and even while walking away from the machine.

As for side supports , you may be able to get something like a Tri-Cep Dip stand for people to use if really needed. They wont vibrate of course, but should do the trick. 

 
Di Heap Posted On:2009-09-13 16:49:07

Philippa,  

Is it the current pain that is undiagnosed?   What were the op’s for?  It certainly sounds like your client is benefitting from Vibration Training.  I know you are using the safety program,  http://www.vibra-train.com/exercises-bullet.html  , so he should do basic squat instead of super-squat at the end i.e. using the bullets handlebars for support and check his knee position is not too far forward.  Also that his knees are aligned over his feet, not bow-legged or inward, but you know all this.

The pain I felt during squat positions was more of awareness, warmth feeling but not pleasant.  It is important for him to take rests between positions to allow fatigued muscles to recover.  Also, to rest at the end of the session, before leaving the studio.  It’s that time when legs can feel a bit like jelly that my knee would “catch”.  I can only tell of my experience and your client may have a different condition.  I'll leave Lloyd to answer most of your questions. 

 
Philippa Church Posted On:2009-09-12 22:48:26

Hi Di

Can you give some more advice on people with knee pain.  Our machines don't have the side handle bars (Would be great if we did...!!!)  So, I have one client in particular with dreadful knees - has had lots of ops - never really been diagnosed. VT has really helped and he has gone from taking 8 painkillers a day to none but he still has slip backs .   When he goes very low into a squats it causes pain. His knee angle is probably about 115-129o - usinf the handles of bullet to take weight (pulling down not back)  He says it feels like the knee is being cut in two.    Are there any other exercises we can add in or what else can we do?  It is really helping but feel we maybe can do more.  What can  we whho haven''t got side bars do when adopting the 110 degree angle with weight in heels causes their knees to hurt? 

 
Di Heap Posted On:2009-09-12 21:30:24

Peter Wills

<quote> “I was searching for advice since I went to a session and my knee is killing me today and thinkin' this ain't for moi at all.” </quote>

Do you have a knee injury?  Did you advise the Instructor? More information about the machine you used and the positions you did?  But, I can relate to your knee hurting.  I injured my knee (cartilage tear) running.  Conservative therapies did not help much and when I started at Vibra-Train 3yrs later I could not jog without my knee locking or giving way. 

I used a machine that has side handlebars for extra support in squat positions.  At first my knee hurt during sessions.  Sometimes ached afterwards but by next day my knee did not “lock” or give-way so I continued.  I ran again too soon.  The meniscus tear opened, worse this time.

Going back to Vibra-Train I was taken off the program and did a series of simple squats instead.  Within 2 weeks (6 sessions) I was walking without pain, moved to the full program and got my knee right again, slower this time.  I’m not going to say it’s perfectly healed as cartilage heals slowly and it’s untried but I have no pain, no giving way and I proved first time that rest, massage, meds was not enough.  Please let us advise you.

 

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2009-09-12 14:57:01
Yes got to love the self promoting rubbish such as the " Professor" title, and this ..
 
The information made available on Fitness Professor Review.com© is based on the extensive experience and knowledge of our Review Board.
 
One even calling himself " THE health and fitness trainer" and the other " been involved in the development and fabrication of everything from safety railings to executive helicopters "  I worked on helicopters and for this guy to not fundamentally understand the truly different physics based levels of vibration, and how they effect humans, even before he has seen a machine, is just scary. 
 
But then apparently they let themselves off the hook from such poor work by having a disclaimer telling people to ask their health care professional what machine they should buy ? Since when has any health care pro had the time to review the 6 categories of machine on the market.  With the 6 category review being on the site at the top of Google globally ( vibration training ) they must have done zero research past what came from the marketers of each machine.
 
The fact is by calling themselves "unbiased experts" they are telling people to trust them, and most people will follow their advice. Not cool.         
 
Mike Hair Posted On:2009-09-12 12:52:46

Just read the review by the professor, what a dangerous idiot. It is excactly this type of marketing bullshit that cost me over $30k and the last 4 years of my life trying to repay it. He has no idea how this type of review can hurt someone.

Thank God for this site, where the consumer can find out how not to get ripped off!!

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2009-09-12 09:52:17

Peter......

Like any form of exercise, it can sometimes irritate old injuries, just like running, doing weights or even Physio etc.... But you also need to make sure you follow good advice, starting with the safety program. But seeing as you have gone looking for advice "after" you used a machine, it was a bit late to help you. I can not speak for other systems, but we have not had one ACC claim in the 5 years of operation, IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY.  With about a quarter of our customers ( in my studio at least ) being elderly or having quite severe previous injuries, that would prove beyond a doubt to any reasonable person, this form of training is safe if done properly.

Philippa....

None of these guys will come on and name a place, machine or give specifics, it was an ambush because I called their "professor" mate a fake. We have all seen it before, its predictable and they all say exactly the same thing and the attacks follow the same pattern. Funny as hell for those of us who have been doing this a while. It just gives us a chance to show the world how feeble their arguments are.  

 
John Weatherly Posted On:2009-09-12 04:27:12

Dave and Booge,

Have you guys read even the abstract of a study by Ness et al. out of the U of Miami (Gait Posture. July 31,2009) that showed improved walking ability in patients with incomplete spinal cord injuries after a month of three times a week vibration treatments?  This pilot study involved the Miami Project to Cure Paralysis, the medical school at the U of Miami, and the department of bioengineering at the U of Miami.  It's available at www.nlm.nih.gov, click on PubMed, and type in vibration training or vibration exercise as search terms. 

To me, something that may benefit people being able to walk, is not "garbage."  The U of Miami and The Project to Cure Paralysis must not think vibration is garbage. 

 
Philippa Church Posted On:2009-09-12 02:52:20


Hi Peter

Sounds like you might have gone to a Dave and Boogie style studio - where on poor amchines witha dodgy programme you may well end up in pain.  Virtually all out customers ee a huge improvement with knee and back problems and the for the few who don't it certainly doesn't make it worse - maybe you could share with us where you went so other people can know not to go there .  Be inteested to see if you do.  I f you find somewhere who follows the Safety programme you should see an improvement. 

Thanks  judithlloyd           14

 

 

 
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