Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-29 21:55:44
If the machine feels smoother and generally operates in a more controlled manner. Then it probably was an upgrade.
Are WAVE reading this forum ...  I would hope WAVE are following any and all feedback because that is just good business sense.  
Our questions posed to Dr Marco Cardinale that are clearly being ignored...
These are not going away anytime soon. And no amount of academic posturing will change the historical fact that non-academics discovered the issues of inaccurate specs. And all academics have done since then is confirm that fact. 
Like your article says...
 "The Internet is a wonderful place, where everyone can freely communicate and write and discuss pretty much about everything. Freedom is a great thing, sadly it also poses its risks "
In your case the risk comes in the form of you not being able to censor the truth.
This is from an article published by me years ago.......
What if the unit is not doing that actual Fq/speed?

This has been documented in the worlds largest selling unit, with variations of + or -  23% from the figure displayed on the control panel. And that was unloaded ( no-one on it ). When someone actually gets on the machine it will vary even more wildly depending on the persons weight and position on the machine. The same above unit was independently tested at universities in N.Z. and Australia ,  and was shown to drop almost all performance at only 80kg.
Sound familiar ?
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-11-29 19:59:34

To add to my previous post:

The simplicity of the IVTRB program with its strict, safe poses makes the instructor’s job very straightforward.  It’s easy to see, at a glance, exactly what position a person is up to; even when watching people on 8 machines in one room, all up to different positions. 

Also it’s very easy for the customers.  I can only imagine the chaos if everyone had individualised programs.



I’m glad to hear your machine has been repaired.  Keep us updated with your progress using it please.

Patty Posted On:2011-11-29 17:09:57

First - thanks to Lloyd - I am sure your influence has played a role in my finally getting my Wave repaired. I do feel that they are reading the forum too - as after my post re my frustration with Sandy - he stayed on top of keeping me informed as to what was going on with my repair part - even sent me a tracking number for the shipment. Here’s my update:

Wave part arrived last Tuesday and the repairman came today to do the installation. Hubby was home to meet with him. Same nice guy. He told my husband he had never worked on a vibration machine before and was not really familiar with their use. But, he installed the new insides (appeared to be the main operating control panel that goes in the underside of the machine). I used it tonight - and it worked quite differently than my “pre-breakdown” Wave. First, when I turn it on, it makes a totally different sound. Instead of sounding like it is pumping up with air (continual sound) it makes a sound like someone is tapping a pedal on an air pump…and it makes the sound several times. Then, instead of sounding like it is filling with more air when I touch the start-up screen - it is silent until I touch the screen to adjust for my weight. Then it makes the sound of filling air. Very short time compared to before. So, either my pre-breakdown machine was totally off - or they have made changes to the new control panel that has been installed - or it is still not working properly…I am hoping it is an improved panel. The machine itself feels more smooth…and it does not jump on the floor as much as it did before at start-up and stop. One issue that occurred - when I was doing the stretch -where you bend forward - the lower timer was not running in time with the upper timer. At 17 seconds - it stuck there for about 4 seconds, then went down very slowly, more than a second at each countdown number. It had 10 seconds left on the bottom counter when the top counter had reached zero - stopping the machine. I was able to notice this since I was bent over facing the lower timer. This only happened once…so I don’t know if I will have another issue as I continue to use the Wave.

I started my training at 43 / high and did 2 one minute poses for each of the safety training program poses. Surprisingly, I didn’t have any trouble with the program…actually seemed easier than when I did my very first workout on the machine in July. Hopefully the machine is working correctly since it seems very different now.

Mike M - I noticed the higher prices too! I paid $4,500 - and would not pay the price they are asking now. In hind sight - you got the best deal and think that perhaps I would have been better off going with the contour plus…oh well..time will tell. If I can get consistent use now and begin to see some results, I will be content. My husband has agreed to begin using it too…so I am hoping it will make a difference for him.

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-11-29 16:42:15

With the IVTRB Safety Program  ( | )

we can manage many customers with just one instructor (two at the most busy times) using 10 machines. Most people are great, they just get on with the training session with or without instructor help as needed; others moan that it's too hard and really don't make much effort (these either shape up or just stop coming). 

Still others are argumentative, think they know more than the instructor and almost seem to try to be difficult. Today I've been told - my personal trainer says this isn't good training, its easy and I should just do it to warm up before I come to the gym to do the real work. I asked, "has your trainer ever been to Vibra-Train?" No, they haven't BUT they state authoritatively that they know more about it than we who work here know - - totally lazy trainer I say. Too lazy to even check us out!

Another of todays customers tried to set up one instructor against another - and this happens often. This very overweight young lady on her third session assured me that she had been doing a Full Push-Up (not a mini Push-Up). She became quite arrogant and angry when I suggested she was mistaking the Full Push-Up for the Full Plank which she was possibly able to do. Her response - the other instructor let me do it. I explained to her that she hadn't even held Position 1 - Basic Squat well and made her do the mini Push-Up and she remained angry throughout the session. 

I had a customer try to start the session at Position 3 (Wide Stance Squat) and when told  Positions 1 (Basic Squat) and 2 (Push-Up) obviously come first, replied, I was told to do that one first - No, totally wrong! Yet she still insisted - she was told to follow the program correctly or not do it at all.  And my day started with a customer who thinks the atmosphere isn't how she likes it now that we are busier - no, it is more vibrant and bustling now - that customer will just have to adapt.

Yesterday a newbie lasted just 2 seconds and stood up from the 60 second Basic Squat. We tried twice but she (a 20 year old athletic girl) said it was too hard and she feared it might give her a heart attack. I was very patient with her even though I was trying hard not to laugh.

In contrast, the joys of today were two newbies who both struggled with the program but loved it. One who had strong, quality muscle to start with but told me she wasn't exercising at all, worked very hard through the IVTRB Program holding perfect position throughout - she's going to get great results.

So, my advice to new trainers and new studio owners - get very tough, very fast or customers will walk all over you. There are training materials freely available for you - ask on here and we will help you.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-29 15:20:35

Estimated warranty work is built into retail. Quite often prices will go up as real world costs become apparent.

Mike M. Posted On:2011-11-29 07:37:22


How is your repair going? Is it fixed yet?

As an aside, I just got the email from Wave and it appears their opinion of Wave Contour Plus has gone up. To $4800 list now. From $4000 list earlier, when I ordered it for $3600. So I looked at the site and your Air Reflex is now at $8995 list. You paid what, $5000? If they fixed it, not too bad I guess.

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-27 17:18:16
Think about this Dr Marco Cardinale ........
If you only trust, and you suggest others should only trust. "peer reviewed research" .
Then why did so many researchers trust non-peer reviewed engineering specs some company just gave them ?
If we non-academics are missing something, I promise your answer will not be censored ( unlike your blog that will not publish any questions even from John Weatherly an ex-academic )  I don't know maybe we are just all too uneducated to comprehend the reasoning behind what appears to be a clear oxy-moron and a breaking of your own rules. 
Feel free to put us in our place.      
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-27 15:33:54
To just make sure the seriousness of this issue is not underplayed by those at fault 
I am aware of 520 research papers released by academics where the machines were not tested to logically recommended levels. The levels the "experts" who have been involved this entire time now "claim" to have just discovered.
So here is the point....
If the experts are to be believed, and it takes on average 3 years to complete a paper and get it published. That works out to ....
1560 years of time, effort and data that is statistically useless or massively compromised ( aka can not be be replicated because they actually have ZERO idea what the machine was actually doing )  .........       
When the time is right, I will be releasing quite of bit of information in article format to back up how much damage has been done. Lots and lots of time and money wasted. I think when I do that the subject will get the attention it deserves. 
This has been on my website from the moment my suspicions had been confirmed by engineering reports years ago........
" The reason we have removed the existing research is this; our units are built to a standard we believe has not been seen in the industry to date, instead most research has been done on machines we have not been given the full engineering tests for so we believe it unethical to repeat the test results until such time as these standards have been meet."  
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-27 12:27:59
Questions to any researcher using Vibration Platforms  ....
(1)   When did you first use a Vibration Platform ( what exact year was it )
(2)  When did you first release any academic work on vibration training or therapy.
(3) When did you first release ( the actual date ) any statement concerning extra mass effect a platforms performance  ( body weight or any other mass ). 
Seeing as the issue is a logical one that can be very easily and quickly be validated. I do not think any kind of major delay is explainable. If there is a valid explanation I am all for hearing it.
Note:  An idea I would like to share.....
I think some academics will try to get around this embarrassing issue by releasing a variation of the obvious.
Eg......   The car will not go around the corner at 200 km/hr.
After it is pointed out to them by someone else the car will not go around the corner at 100 km/hr.
It is a very poor attempt to sound relevant and very transparent.
In this case releasing a statement saying "athlete + extra mass " will effect the plate. But you "forgot" to test it with just body weight first just wont cut it.
John Posted On:2011-11-27 00:15:43

The lack of accountability really bothers me.  I have seen it over and over from academics.  The NSCA Professional Standards and Guidelines document is an example.  Scientists knew the NSCA founder was not following these guidelines by hiring an ex football player who had used steroids as Coordinator of Performance Education. This was reported over and over.  One scientist, a departtment head at a major university and an NSCA VP at the time, even promised me he would conduct an investigation, I would get a copy of the results from the NSCA National Office etc.  He told me SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS.  Well, here it is almost 8 years after his investigation, nothing was done, and I still do not have my copy in spite of numerous requests.  The reason I do not have my copy is this would make all the scientists hooked up with the NSCA look bad, the NSCA look bad, etc.  So, instead of addressing the problem it has all been covered up.  This is similar to Dr. Cardinale et al.  I wish Dr. Cardinale would show some accountability by coming back on here and explaining things.  Come on Marco, show up.  Or, perhaps a better term would be man-up.  It is very troubling when scientists are not accountable for their actions, go into hiding, and pass the buck over and over...

John T. Weatherly

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-26 17:19:46
Well I am never going to give myself a fancy title.
Just Mortician will do.
Why I think and operate the way I do....
I do not get to be incompetent in my chosen field of mortuary work and get to still claim expert status. Mother nature would take over and show me who is boss very quickly if I was a fake or pretending in any way. My pro-career started and my first head butting with "academic types" came when I was quite young and a couple of fully qualified morticians had an "impossible" case to do at my fathers mortuary. So it had to apparently be a closed casket.
Their argument consisted completely of " it has not been done before, and it was not in our Uni course, so it cant be done" 
My personal opinion was they were just being lazy and could not be bothered to problem solve. I solved the problem and others through the years that used to be "normal issues"  and now my entire reputation is based on doing the un-do-able. I have broken every limit put in front of me.
My lack of respect for the academic community is not born of my arrogance. It is born of their own arrogance, failings and pathetic excuses they attempt to use when caught being incompetent.
John Posted On:2011-11-26 01:24:33

Bill Gates and the late Steve Jobs were college dropouts.  Many brilliant inventor types seem to get frustrated in academia and quit.  I have a grad degree myself and was a research assistant to a former Head of Sport Physiology for the USOC that Marco knows.  This scientist once told me that a man named Gary Dudley was the only one of them that he thought was a genius.  He was speaking about exercise and sport scientists.  Even the term sport scientist is very questionable here in the States,  Universities call their academic departments names like Health, Sport, and Exercise Science instead of the old Health, PE, and Recreation or something similar.  Yet, at these same universities, their is little or no interaction with sports in the athletic department.  Many call themselves sport scientists and do not use athletes as subjects.  They instead mostly  use recreationally trained college students as subjects.  The biggest sports in the U.S. are American football, basketball, and baseball.  Research is scant on these BIG 3 sports in the U.S.  But, they call themselves sport scientists.  Go figure that out.  They do not use appropriate subject populations or conduct athletically relevant research but they call themselves SPORT SCIENTISTS.  I guess that sounds better than physical educator or health educator.  Most of them have no interaction at all with the athletic departments at their own universities.  But, they are SPORT SCIENTISTS.  this is very misleading to say the least.

John T. Weatherly

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-25 18:57:04
This is what has been said about Dr Carmelo Bosco....
" But Bosco has always been an outsider, a misfit constantly aiming at breaking myths and changing the status quo. Never satisfied with the level of knowledge, always convinced that there was something more to understand, some unexplored area to discover, never he accepted to sit on his laurels" .
If that is all true , then I am 100% sure he would have welcomed me questioning the status quo as long as it made sense. And I am also 100% sure he would have not have sat around and waited until a peer reviewed paper told him to test the machines under load.
Because that is exactly the mentality Marco Cardinale is preaching. The opposite of what pioneers believe.  
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-25 17:47:51
Marco Cardinals recent article on his own blog  ( that is heavily censored so good luck asking any real questions or getting any real answers )
A few points....
(1)  He attempts to take pot shots at anybody who is not a fellow "academic".  In fact apparently no-one can be an "expert" unless they follow his rules.
I think the guy is seriously delusional or has ZERO grasp of history and original thought. If you have to be already qualified in a field to work in it, then how does the process of invention and new ideas happen. Critical thinking would not even exist. Everything would be pre-knowledge.
I prefer to let history judge me by my work and record of not screwing up, rather than have my mates pat me on the back for a job not well done.  
(2)  He also goes on to say that the academic process is not "perfect"  Well I never asked for perfect, but how about just some good old fashioned common sense . I mean by his own standards and article hundreds of his "peers" reviewed all the research on vibration training, and not one questioned the lack of engineering tests, and the logical conclusion the platforms performance must change under load. 
Sorry but no matter how that is analyzed.  It is quite obviously a fantastic example of the blind leading the blind.
(3)  He seems to also imply that no-one can invent anything without following due process. So nothing was technically invented before the legal patent system was introduced ?  Interesting idea Marco but clearly stupid.    
 If he is indeed referring to me and my work, his imagination and what he has been taught is limiting his view on things. Patents are all about control and money, not about spreading knowledge. That is why I freely share my knowledge, (  I do not try to sell it in book form )  I help other companies build better products and question the status quo. And also work hard to clean up our industry. If that means targeting self professed experts who have a history of screwing up and wasting precious resources. Then so be it. 
(4)  He seems to imply, (  but not have the resolve to actually name anything )  I have claimed to invent things I have not. I have done my work in plain site of the public, both at my studio and on the internet so that it can all be directly traced back to me.
I did this because I know how dodgy academics are. Most of them being frustrated failed inventors ( or worse never even tried ) and are always on the look out to get the glory off other peoples work.
John Posted On:2011-11-25 12:19:20

Dr. Cardnale, who has not come back on here, now has another article up apparently taking a shot at Lloyd.  I commented that if the scientists were so smart about vibration they would not have needed to get together and come up with guidelines for how to conduct valid studies like the panel of experts for the International Society of Musculoskeletal and Neuronal Interactions.  Marco was one of the experts on this panel.  Marco, unlike the comments here, moderates comments about his articles.  I did not say anything offensive at all, but just brought up the above.  It will be interesting to see if my comment is posted and if Marco responds.  It would also be nice if Marco would have the guts to come back on here and explain things.  It seems Marco is making a defensive knee-jerk reaction. 

Something else I would like to mention is the large actue endocrine responses to a 10 set protocol of a minute on and a minute off on Galileo using trained subjects  that Marco reported in his doctoral work which was done under the supervision of Dr. Bosco.  Large acute GH responses of several hundred percent, small increases in testosterone, and small decreases in cortisol.  In fact, it is my understanding that there were questions about the GH values reported.  I had seen it reported anywhere in the range of I believe 360 to 400 percent various places.  I have the abstract for Marcos dissertation lying around somewhere and should read it again.  One must question what this really means and why nobody else has replicated it.  It has been nearly a decade since Marco finished his doctoral work.  Kind of odd nobody else that I know of has reported such large acute GH responses.  Perhaps Marco can come on here and clarify this for us.

John T. Weatherly

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-24 22:52:15
For those of you who are scientifically minded I would like to describe an experiment I did right in front of a Bosco operator on an old original unit after a heated debate I was correct about mass effecting the FQ , Amplitude and KN output the platform  ... 
That tall object next to the platform is an EMG machine. It simply measures muscle activity. Now Bosco salespeople and reps have always stated that because at approx 27hz muscle activity spikes ( slight variation of 1 hz between people ) , then we should all train about that Fq (  I have my own opinion on that but that is for another conversation ) . This point is about an obvious test anyone working with that platform could have done to see how body weight altered the performance.
Step 1....   Get someone to get on the platform and take the FQ up until the ENG spikes for that individual.
Step 2 ...... Get someone else to put partial body weight ( one foot ) on the platform while it is still running and see if the EMG response changes.
3 guesses what happened. There was a massive drop in EMG activity.
Now this in no way signified a problem with the machine. It had high quality VibroItalia  motors and a solid steel platform ( with rubber skirting )  All you had to do was increase the speed of the motors to account for the drop in performance and you gained the EMG spike reading again.
What it clearly showed is ALL platforms are effected by mass. 
This simple test could have been done, and the same conclusion reached by any even slightly scientifically minded person.  We can only ask why it was overlooked by the "experts" .       
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-24 13:50:54
For the record I would like to say I do not think Dr Bosco gets enough public credit for the work he did in this area. And I instead see top people in retail companies trying to take credit for his work. 
Eg.....  The original Power Plate was basically a direct copy of Bosco's unit, with some minor modifications. The "new" design in now way really moved the technology forward, it was just more presentable. 
Academics using other peoples discoveries and ideas without reference is as equally disrespectful.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-23 15:41:50
In plain English, I will explain how incompetent these scientists are in taking so long to figure out the fake spec fiasco.
(1)  Energy can not be created or destroyed. Only transferred.
(2)  Vibration is just kinetic energy.
(3) The weight of a person ( 1x gravity  eg....  80 kg )  =  the resistance against that vibrational energy.
(4)  So the persons weight MUST effect the energy the platform is actually producing.  The only question ever was how much.
It is a very simple equation. 
Kinetic energy of platform --  weight of person = actual specs 
This is not NASA level science. It is High School Physics.  If anyone wants to disagree with me on that point. Please feel free to post your reasons why you disagree. 
Note: Even though I have requested it, I have yet to receive an explanation of why this simple equation was not taken into account from day one. From not one of these "experts".  It is though these academics do not think they are accountable for the mistakes made and then published as "accurate scientific information".
It is my personal opinion the combination of dishonest companies and incompetent gutless researchers have hurt our industry deeply and potentially long term. I do not think it is unreasonable for me to expose this issue and let the public decide if I am correct or not. I will be relentless in this endeavor because I believe it is important to question the status quo so we can all move forward.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-23 12:06:13
This is the comment I got from Marco Cardinal once .......  " Good for them if they have used my reputation, it means they are much smarter then me." This was when Power Plate got caught with a fake Medical Advisory board with Marcos name on it.   
It seems dishonesty is rewarded and respected and not to be fought or highlighted by academics. Put that on top of the "experts" missing the obvious and they wonder why we don't respect or trust them.
John Posted On:2011-11-23 11:45:59

Notice Dr. Cardinale has not yet come back on here to rebuttal Lloyd.  Also notice Dr. Cardinale will not name the company on here.  It is ludicrous to expect people, especially in these economic times, to subscribe to the journal to read in the metnods section somewhere what platform was used.  Marco mentioned the article himself on his site and yet will not tell the name of the platform.  Very peculiar it would seem. 

Notice Marco, on his blog at,  pitches his book right away.  I am sure it is a good book, but like Lloyd said, probably just the same old stuff recycled over and over on vibration.  Anyway, Marco seems to be a salesman himself shamelessly pitching his book right away on his site.  Additionally, if you go back to the work Marco first did on vibration and read some of the comments he and Bosco made on vibration in a coaching journal, they were saying without a doubt about hormonal influences and VJ etc.

Bosco was apparently dying when Cardinale and Bosco wrote a review on vibration for the American College of Sports Medicine Exercise and Sport Sciences Reviews published in 2003.  I actually had a scientist tell me on the phone a few years ago that he suspected Bosco and Cardinale may have manipulated the data on some of their work by tossing out subjects to reach statistical significance.  Anyway, do not kid yourselves.  These scientists in exercise and sport science have their hands out for gifted equipment, book deals, speaking engagements, etc.  They are marketers and salesmen as much or more as they are actually searching for the truth. 

John T. Weatherly

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-22 16:11:05
Dear Marco Cardinale ...... 
I think submitted court documents and affidavits done by independent engineers trump your " submit your case to a scientific journal and get peer review "  advice. And besides who is going to peer review it, the same idiots who failed to discover the issue in the first place. The problem is so obvious anyone who missed it cant be really taken seriously.       
You have chosen to bury the name of the offending companies in the study rather than put it up in BOLD type on the abstract or the conclusion ( the only part most people read ) . That is what has been done in the past. Did it work in protecting the industry or has that tactic completely failed ?
What's that saying about doing the same thing time and time again but expecting a different result ?
We on the other hand have forced the issue to the forefront and it is now being used as a marketing tool by some companies. We are using market forces to make "real" changes, not "academic" changes.    
Important note: Anyone trying to take credit for an idea and work that is already being done by other " non academics" will only get them into trouble . It is just good old fashioned Plagiarism in my opinion.     
On a personal note: I have been in the industry since 2003. Been in personal contact with you since 2007 to advise you of your name being on a fake medical advisory board. And I am probably the only person to never misuse your name and work for advertising purposes. I have also never lied to you in any way. And despite your original cynicism of me probably just being motivated by anti competitive behavior (  aka my attacks on Power Plate )  You must now know everything I said was the truth and I accurately predicted the issues you are now " discovering"   
So your lack of respect for my work and opinions are more than disappointing.
Mike M. Posted On:2011-11-22 14:25:26

Does it rhyme with (an) Hour Late? ;-)

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-11-22 10:58:37

The problem with the blog and abstracts is they are advertising for the full article. Some of us don’t want to subscribe for the full article and don’t need it – it won’t tell us anything we don’t already know. 

The study is yet another doomed to failure (or to less beneficial results than could have reasonably been expected) because the equipment used wasn’t working to specs.  Why do academics accept equipment that doesn’t work to specs? Because it is gifted to them, that’s why! At least now they are checking the equipment; so many older studies were totally based on machine specs, listed as absolutes, when they were flawed.

I asked my son, an academic (not in NZ) who is also very hands on and practical, if he would test equipment gifted to him for research (in a very different field but related to humans). He said, No, of course not  – he would believe what the supplier said.  He said they only have a limited amount of money to buy their own equipment so they accept gifts.  Academic failure, in my opinion!

Why don’t academics simply say – ( x brandname) machines don’t work to the specs supplied, in the short text, so we all know? 

The opposite to the study’s results can be true – we have a NZ strength athlete who has, again, won some top events in her chosen sport.  She combines regular training with vibration training sessions 3x week on high energy lineal machines. She wouldn’t do it if it wasn’t making a difference, would she?

(Mike M – the brand is well known but I’ll wait until someone reads the full article and tells us from there, direct wording)

Mike M. Posted On:2011-11-22 08:43:19

So what make/model was it anyway? I can't seem to find it on the website anywhere...

Marco Cardinale Posted On:2011-11-22 03:10:24

I have been directed to this forum by a colleague as it seems that someone is making defamatory claims on myself and my work. 

If you do not agree with what I write or publish you can decide to ignore my work or write a letter to the editor of the scientific journals to discuss and criticise on scientific terms why you disagree with something.

However, before you do so, I strongly suggest you actually read the papers. As it seems clear that you do not do that.

In fact in the last two comments you are hinting that I have not indicated the name of the manufacturer of the platform used. If you had read the methods section you would have found all the details you ne.eded. So you clearly do not read papers accurately and make claims that are untrue. Also, in my recent review on international journal of sports physiology and performance I have indicated all equipment and parameters used in studies with athletes as appearead in the literature. So your claims are totally untrue.

As I mentioned previous times in many places I have no financial involvement or gain from manufactures of vibrating devices. 

I would really appreciate if you tone down your defamatory statements as they are utterly inappropriate and do not reflect the truth. If you do not like the work of somebody there is no need to write defamatory remarks and offend.

If you think you have a good idea and scientific proof you can submit your case to a scientific journal and get peer review just like everyone else does rather than telling everyone they are wrong and you are the only one right. 

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-21 22:04:19
I have had direct communication with WAVE. For some reason their emails got put in my span folder.
Anyway they are taking the breakdown seriously and I have faith it will be just an unfortunate memory for Patty soon. 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-11-21 11:58:18

A little humour for Monday morning – New Zealand’s dumbest criminal

Willie Nugent Posted On:2011-11-21 01:32:50



         This is exactly why you need to produce a home machine we the public can trust to do the job!!


I respect your Studio systems but they are not in every country/city/town and are unavailable to 99% of the worlds population.


You say you came out of the Mortuary to help people live longer and you believe in “ethics and responsibility” then it is time to really help the rest of the world and produce home machines that are true to specs, reliable and reasonably affordable.As far as i can see, people are paying up to £10k already for home machines that are not even up to their own specs!


The time has definitely come to rethink your strategy and help the masses!!  

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-11-20 22:55:29
What the study says and what I think......
"  The most important findings relate to the behavior of the WBV platform used in this study and the limitations in using such devices for performing strength training exercises with additional mass. "
It is not just additional mass. It is almost impossible to find a platform that holds its value after only 65kg of body weight. You do the math's. 
A well know platform ( the original steel power plate from 1999 )  was shown in unloaded tests to peak at 6.24Gs and produce a peak of 390kg of force.
390 kg /  6.24 = 62.5 kg . Anything over that weight and the machine does not produce enough KNs to lift the person up at the exact advertised peak Gs. ( and in my opinion this only accounts for part of the overall equation, and it even falls down on that )  
The problem is because they already think that is the best figure that can be reached (  the factory in Holland told me that in 2003 ) . Zero R&D has gone into surpassing those engineering limitations and instead just do their best to match it.  Why bother when everyone seems satisfied with machines that are not even as good as 2003 models ? (  And some trainers / researchers still think if its vibrating its doing its job somehow ) 
" Vibrating displacements and maximum accelerations measured on the device were not always consistent with their expected values calculated from the display and manufacturers' information"   
 Because no-one will name and shame actual brands releasing such low quality units, nothing will ever change.  Example ..... this researcher knows the names of the companies and individuals responsible for releasing substandard units year after year.
I mean what is the worst that will happen ?  The companies involved wont give them a machine to play on anymore ? When will one of these researchers stand up and just say...
        "  this company can not be trusted, using their equipment may compromise your research results" 
To prove nothing has changed ......
 Direct quotes from David Basset-Jones who did studies on the Power Plate in 2005 , later to find out he was lied to........

“As far as having “engineering reports” done on machines, I would argue that it is the ethical responsibility of the manufacturer to do this testing and report the results. The blame is not on the researchers but the manufactures ”

“As far as my study in 2005, we only measured the accelerations (which were different than the manufacturer’s claimed accelerations). This was done without an individual standing on the plate.”

” I also feel that there are some researchers (myself included) that would like to perform product testing so that consumers can be informed of the true specs.”

“We are testing it loaded and unloaded. Believe it or not, you are not the only one who has wondered if the Power Plate, being made of a softer material than steel, affects the vibration characteristics.”

“I agree that all plates should be tested before (and while, to go above and beyond) they are being used for a research study…..I can only wish that I thought of this prior to doing this study”

“I am more concerned about the errors/limitations of my research than you are. This was years of planning, testing, and analyzing that I put in to this project. I could not account for limitations in the study that I was not aware of at that time.”

But no public statement was ever released, so even more researchers have been taken for a ride since then. The thing that gets me is these people are in a position of power to effect real change but choose to hide behind ambiguous comments instead. 
I have been told directly by these experts....  " that's not my job"  
Well get this academics. It was not "my job" to come out of the Mortuary and help people live longer. It is called "ethics and responsibility".  If you have knowledge, you share it for the greater good.
If your ONLY motivation for doing something is because it is your "job" aka ..  a paycheck has to be involved.
Then like I have been saying all along. You are part of the problem, not any solution.  
John Posted On:2011-11-20 15:11:28

Dr. Marco Cardinale has an interesting new article at about an Italian WBV study that mentions limitations of a commercially available WBV platform used in the study but they do not mention the name of the platform.

John T. Weatherly

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