Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-17 09:53:16
Mike M....
 
Who knows. Maybe Murray will be able to give you some opinion on that. As they have tested a number of Lineal units 'state-side" but not sure about your model. It also needs a PE comparison for this test.
 
Heidi...
 
Your best bet is either HyperVibe ( Pivotal  ) or DKN or Wave ( Lineal ).  My advice. Try before you buy. $3K is still like a small car. It is an investment.  
 
Heidi Posted On:2012-03-17 01:59:58

Hi,  I live in the US and unfortunately in a city that does not have a high vibration studio of any type.  I am looking to purchase a machine for my home.  One that is affordable yet still effective.  I would be using it for fitness and weight loss purposes.  I have been trying to do some research on the Internet to help me decide which machine would be best - but have found that I am totally confused and frustrated.  Each machine site claiming they are the best in the industry, yet each promoting a different type of vibration.  And is it even possible to get a home unit that will help me achieve my fitness goals for under $3,000 US dollars?  Any information you can give me in selecting a home unit would be very much appreciated.  Thanks so much!

 
Mike M. Posted On:2012-03-17 00:37:22

Any way someone could test a Wave (Contour Plus preferably) for comparison?

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-16 18:31:40
And just in case anyone thinks PE ( Perceived Exertion )  is not an reliable measure. This study showed it matched physiological stress exactly. And PE will continue to be used as long as science lacks the tools to measure everything.
 
 
I will only be using people who have been training for years at a serious level. Who have zero financial ties to Vibra-Train.    
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-16 16:06:06
Mike M....
 
Sorry do not know the dates. It should not take too long as pretty straight forward test.  
 
To those who have already sent me emails on the subject expressing concern .....
 
 
 There are no secrets to steal. I have basically spent the last 8 years spelling it out to everybody in plain English in plain site putting up challenges to follow me. I do not think the industry can move forward on a "secret vibration recipe"  idea.
 
I know what it takes to do what I have done. And I say good luck to those who try. The industry actually needs them to try harder. My issue has been those who have a vested interest in not asking questions.
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-16 14:36:40
Just to clarify the reasons for the tests ........
 
Murray Seaton ( and a majority of the industries experts, and by that I mean everyone but me )  understanding so far has been its all about Fq X Amplitude. ( acceleration is now being discussed as a factor ) .
 
My opinion from day one is those figures only play a part in the overall effects ( 9 factors in total from my point of view ). The entire machine, from ground up had to be a balanced equation. And I built machines around my theories.
 
In short I have said controlled  "Inertia" of the actual platform plays a massive role in muscle response. 
 
 
The test itself.....  
 
 
3 machines will be tested side by side. 2 of which are magnetically driven so have no real inertia , but have perfect Fq x Amplitude figures on paper. These units are variable Fq and Amplitude units so getting all 3 to match should be possible.  Mine is set to a certain degree so we will be doing our best to get the other 2 to match mine. ( it should be noted that other Lineal machines tested by Murray Seaton eg... Power Plate , DKN , etc...  have similar settings that hold under load and the results are available ) 
 
Note: We are aiming for approx 1 mm , 45 hz on all 3 machines. "Aiming" being the operative word as we just do not know yet.
 
Perceived Exertion ( how hard it feels to work out on ) levels by multiple parties that do not know each other will then be put alongside each units acceleration results.
 
Loaded and unloaded test should be done, in a Static Squat position to replicate the bio-mechanical nature of the machines usage.  A load of 60kg - 80 kg is suggested by me as that is the average weight of those who will be doing the PE tests.   
 
I put myself forward as a test subject as I weight 74kg and there is no way to influence the machines value in a static squat pose.
 
If the difference is profound. Then the science moves forward by more questions being asked. I personally look forward to more questions being asked.        
.
 
Mike M. Posted On:2012-03-16 09:58:30

When will these tests be reported in print?

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-15 15:22:55
"For the record, Murray Seaton and Lloyd Shaw have reached an agreement for the betterment of the whole industry.'
 
 
To this end, we are going to move forward with a number of projects. I have invited Murray Seaton to tests our machines and do the following....
 
What I am looking for is Murray Seaton's opinion on the Perceived Exertion level of my different machines VS other machines with identical readings as per  Fq , Ampl , Accel  readings.
 
 
For direct comparisons we have a Pulse Trainer and Body Pulse on site that will also tested. The good thing about these 2 units is the wide range of settings that can be done. So an "apples for apples" comparison can be done.     
 
 I am getting 2 well respected personal trainers and 2 carded athletes who have nothing to do with our industry to also do perceived exertion tests on the same machines. Because perceived exertion can vary from person to person. Depending on their background. I believe this will be a fair tests.
 
 
 
This should be more than interesting.
 
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-12 19:07:39
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-11 10:52:13
DZT Fitness get Blacklisted...
 
This company has, despite requests for honesty. Continued to sell machine with fake specifications and gets all consumer inquiries regarding other issues deleted from Auction sites. 
 
Whenever a specific question is asked about anything.  They refuse to answer. 
 
This was my specific question to Douglas Nevin  the owner of DZT Fitness  here .....
 
 
 
 So lets get this clear.

The exact machine you are selling has a plate Fq range of 0 hz - 30hz .

Will full refunds will be given if it does not have a plate Fq range of 0 hz - 30hz?
 
 
Despite the question being asked multiple times by different people once I brought the subject up. Along with other questions regarding results if the machine is fake. None were answered and most were deleted.  
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-10 14:18:43
A re-read of my original article about running a Vibration Training studio.
 
 
Just in case anyone reads some of the "newly" released articles by "experts" on how to run a studio and want to know where the knowledge really came from.
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-09 18:39:03
This is what I am talking about when I say a site posing as as "consumer education " supposedly giving "unbiased" info...
 
 
Eve says:

Hello,

I am wanting to get a ( brand name inserted )  for myself and my 84+ year old mother. We both have some health considerations which I am wondering if anyone could provide me with info on…

For myself, I am 48 years old and was born with severe scholiosis. I have a rod and 7 screws in my back – which I got as a child. I do not get back aches or have any other kind of trouble other then not being able to arch my back. I tried a friend’s lower quality machine for the past month and have been perfectly fine – but I am wondering if I should be concerned with any long term effects?

For my mother, she is a type 2 diabetic and also has fairly severe arthritis in her knees, shoulders and hands and is often in quite a lot of pain. Will the motions be too jarring for her? I was hoping it would help her to strengthen her legs so she could hopefully get strong enough to get out of chairs more easily. However, we will never get to that stage if it will be too jarring and sore for her.
Is there anyone that has ideas and/or comments for our situations?

Thank you for your time and interest.
Eve

Now my conclusion to this question would have been there is no way someone like her, or her mother, would ever need to use the upper speeds on a High Speed Pivotal. So the expense of $2600 US dollars is completely unnecessary. 
 
 
But do you think both these people with health issues are told that ?
 
 
In my opinion. The lack of "unbiased", full disclosure"  advice is simply enethical.
 
 
God I am going to love using examples such as this in my future work to prove my point.           
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-08 16:36:38
What gives me the right to call out other companies ....
 
(1) I have never allowed the sale of machines with fake specifications to go through. The first and only time I have faced this dilemma I did the right thing by the industry and the consumer.   
 
Note:  Any decent trainer or vibration expert can tell you exactly what a machine is doing , or not doing, by feel alone. Engineer tests have always proven me correct.
   
 
(2) I have never inferred directly or indirectly a machine was made in a country it wasn't.
 
 
(3) I have never claimed my machine is endorsed by a Dr , Scientist, Athlete or Celebrity when it hasn't.
 
 
(4) I have never claimed to have designed a machine I did not.
 
 
Good things to ask any company or individual before allowing them to speak about other companies negatively or judgmentally.
 
Glass houses, throwing stones and all that.        
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-08 14:28:18
What could rightfully be called a fake machine.....?   
 
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-08 14:26:04
 I didn't catch it John. It got "brought to my attention"
 
Just really all part of the learning curve this industry has to go through. Almost every company has had "stretching the truth"  issues.
 
Some cant help it and will repeat the same offences in different ways. Others will move on. 
 
John Posted On:2012-03-08 03:26:18

Good catch and exposure Lloyd.  This is one of the reasons this site is so valuable for people and the industry.

John T. Weatherly

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-07 15:11:06
Another ..... " What a marketer will do to this industry if left to their own devices" warning.....
 
 
A moderately worded advert about the possible positive benefits of Low Intensity Vibration Therapy by Cardio-Tech, had this added to it.....
 
" ........even treat diseases "
 
The advertiser will rightly take a hit for that comment. It is outlandish and about the worst comment you can make for a health device.
 
 
I have said it before and I will say it again.
 
This industry is too important to be left to marketers and salespeople.  They will cross the line every time as they only have "the sale" in mind. They must be watched like hawks at all times.
 
Please note: The person responsible for this was advised by me a number of times to keep things moderate. So what did they do.... plagiarize a comment off another site.  Typical lazy marketers. 
 
Shift a product with the least effort possible.    
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-06 21:49:05
Mary ....
 
The description you give about Fqs is for Pivotal only. Just in case you did not know that. Lineal are completely different ( usually 30hz - 50hz is ok ) .
 
I have a mate who might be interested. He lives on the outskirts of Perth ( sorry don't know area names ) .  Email me on lloyd@vibra-train.com so I can pass on your details.
 
Note: I think you will find the machine you have was renamed the "Rejuvenate". Then came the "Performance" later on. All with the same advertised specs as you put up though. But I understand there is some differences.  
 
Mary Posted On:2012-03-06 19:57:10
I have a hyper500 for sale.
Exert from e-- brochure,
A tilting vibration platform gives the safest and best results when used in a frequency range of 1-30Hz. Speeds over 30Hz on a tilting vibration platform are not recommended and will likely result in injury. The optimal frequency for muscle tone, is around 25Hz, but can vary depending on the individual, so make sure your machine can at least reach this speed.
Always ensure your machine gives an accurate frequency reading, it is common to find huge errors in what a machine displays and its actual speed. Our machines have been factory calibrated to give you an accurate Hz indication with marginal room for error, even whilst under heavy loading.
The hypervibe, hyper500 has a full speed range shown in Hz, from 6-28Hz.
From reading other websites it has the best hz range available of any machine. The same company is still selling an identical machine under a different name for $2194. I live in Perth and it is heavy. So pick up would be best. Any offer would be welcome. Thankyou.      
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-05 20:09:28
I am glad to report the IVTRB Pivotal Static Program has climbed almost straight to the top of most read side of this website.
 
For any Pivotal company willing to promote this. Please contact me so you can be in on future IVTRB promotions.
 
 
Please note: As long as you are not advertising fake specifications with your machines. You will be welcomed.  Your motives may be purely financial. But just like the IVTRB Lineal Static program. The ONLY thing that counts is the support and promotion of the program. 
 
To those who snubbed it because you were too "educated" . Great lack of vision guys.  
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-04 13:43:56
Added this year will be a list of "Top 10 Fake Consumer Advice" websites or "Reviews" . ( sales sites disguised as consumer advice sites )
 
These will include any site with a history of...
 
(1) Only recommending one companies product, while pretending to directly compare it against others ( usually much more expensive units ) .
 
(2) Only giving the machines it happens to sell top scores.
 
(3) Only allowing salespeople from certain brands to comment and answer questions from the consumer on its forum.
 
(4) Deleting  posts, questions or consumer advice that may divert a sale from it's support brand. 
         
 
Some are worse that others, as some are very obvious sales based sites. But others work very hard to appear unbiased and honest. But over a period of time the truth is always revealed.
 
 
Please note: A full explanation will be given on the reasons for my warnings on each site . So the reader can investigate my results themselves.  
 
 
I personally think this is a form of consumer fraud and a practice that needs to be exposed........  
 
 
 
Here is my list so far ( in no particular order ) . If there are other "consumer" websites you may be aware of. Please advise me so I can investigate.....
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-03-01 21:13:43

IVTRB Pivotal Static Safety Program

After many years of me trying desperately to get a company that sells Pivotal machines to promote a simple program like we use at the studios.
 
Here it is..........
 
 
 
For the time and fight it took for this to happen. You would have thought I was trying to hurt the Pivotal industry.   
 
My hope is that all Pivotal companies will start to get the idea that a poster full of random poses, that do not even differentiate between "Workout" and "Physio" . Only confuses people and leads to poor translation of Vibration Training and ambiguous results.
 
The IVTRB Lineal Static Program has done wonders for people using Lineal platforms.  Going against all the "experts" opinions I might add, and I predict this Static  Pivotal program will do the same. 
 
 
 
Happy, safe , training.
 
 
 
                               Lloyd Shaw         
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-29 16:18:19
 

                                        Important note about "The Blacklist".

This year we are taking it to an extensive list in alphabetical order of all and any companies involved in the issues listed.  It is going to be brutal, simple and to the point.

For all those who want this industry regulated in some way. This is your chance to be on the right side of the fence.

Realistically I think only a handful of companies will have the fortitude, vision and faith in what we are trying to accomplish to sign on. The only question is, are you one of those companies ?

Cut off for this offer is going to be 30 / 3 / 2012 after that it will be full steam ahead with only the companies that have signed up. No more free rides for anyone after that.

                                                                     In or out ?

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-29 15:27:26
 
 

                                                             ATTENTION

The IVTRB ( http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/what-is-the-ivtrb ) is doing a massive drive this year to highlight two of  our industries major concerns.

 (a) Fake Specs............ 

              (b)  Unsafe . ineffective , dishonest weight control programs.

 All companies wishing to be involved and listed on this site as "recommended" for the consumer to interact with should contact me either via emal or this forum and be willing to do two things.

 (a )  Clearly state on your website you do not use fake specs to sell your product ( those exact words ).

 (b ) Be willing to promote our Lineal or Pivotal Safety program .( your own pictures and posters of course )

Eg....  http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/lineal-and-pivotal-safety-programs

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-27 18:47:42
 
Glad to see this dodgy company ruled against. ...
 
http://www.circulationbooster.com.au/

They should hopefully now be thrown out of chemists thy normally sell in.
 
Hate it when people get vibration therapy ( Physio ) mixed up with these TENS machines.
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-27 06:58:21
For it to be taken seriously by skeptics, this practice needs to be stopped.....   "static and dynamic squats".
 
By adding Dynamic work into the program , they are showing not only a lack of understanding of the nature of Vibration Training, but also their lack of faith in it.
 
It is like they just cant get their head around the fact VT is NOT like gym work. It is the opposite.
 
All they really do is give the skeptics something to write it off as " well they did squats, that's what worked. Not the Vibration Platform "  
 
And ....  to their target audience, the obese....... "We cant get them to do their squats now, so how much chance do we have of getting them to do it on a machine "
 
 
 
Good, but not good enough.
 
John Posted On:2012-02-27 02:00:46

The study Lloyd mentioned below came out of Florida State University and is potentially huge for the vibration industry as it will no doubt be replicated by others.  Obesity is an epidemic.  Lloyd has mentioned obesity is one of the main reasons he became involved in the vibration industry. 

John T. Weatherly

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-25 17:18:52

Whole-body vibration training reduces arterial stiffness, blood pressure and sympathovagal balance in young overweight/obese women
Hypertension Research, 02/24/2012

Figueroa A et al. – Whole–body vibration (WBV) training may benefit arterial function and muscle strength in deconditioned individuals who cannot perform conventional exercise.

Methods
  • Obesity is associated with early cardiovascular dysfunction and reduced muscle strength.
  • Whole–body vibration (WBV) training may improve arterial function and muscle strength.
  • The effects of WBV training on arterial stiffness (brachial–ankle pulse wave velocity, baPWV), wave reflection (augmentation index, AIx), brachial systolic blood pressure (bSBP), aortic systolic blood pressure (aSBP), heart rate variability, and muscle strength (one–repetition maximum, 1RM) were examined in 10 young (21±2 year) overweight/obese women (body mass index, BMI=29.9±0.8kgm–2).
  • Participants were randomized to a 6–week WBV training or non–exercising control (CON) period in a crossover design.
  • WBV training (3 days × week) consisted of static and dynamic squats and calf raises with vibration intensity at 25–30Hz and 1–2mm amplitude (2.83–4.86G).
Results
  • There were significant (P<0.05) decreases in baPWV (–0.9±0.3 ms–1), AIx (–8.0±2.2 %), bSBP (–5.3±1.5mmHg), aSBP (–5.2±2.1mmHg), low–frequency power (–0.13±0.05nu) and sympathovagal balance (LF/HF, –0.42±0.16) after WBV training compared with CON.
  • Significant (P<0.05) increases in high–frequency power (HF, 0.19±0.04nu) and leg extension 1RM (8.2±2.3kg) occurred after WBV training compared with CON.
  • Six weeks of WBV training decreased systemic arterial stiffness and aSBP via improvements in wave reflection and sympathovagal balance in young overweight/obese normotensive women.
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-24 13:09:34
John...
 
We have been seeing this for years on the street.......http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/vibration-training-for-long-distance-runners-the-proof-is-in-the-results
 
 
Kind of strange considering basically every single exercise expert " re fake expert"  went public when we first released Vibration Training  saying it cant help athletes. 
 
 
I have a list of unambiguous statements next to the names of these clowns, that will be released once everything is beyond any doubt. I think it is important for every Vibration Trainer to know the fight we had to endure to get this technology out there. It will make them appreciate it even more.
 
And hopefully put a few load mouthed academics in their place at the same time.    
 
John Posted On:2012-02-23 17:06:01

Recent study out of Taiwan published in JSCR that showed improved running economy with WBV program - at least in the short-term.  I think the study was 8 weeks long.  Go to www.nlm.nih.gov, click on PubMed, and type in "vibration training" as search words and the abstract should be there to read.

John T. Weatherly

 
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