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Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-26 11:41:21

Willie

About home machines, there are varying qualities but few are high energy enough for serious work. Price needs to be balanced with how long you will use the machine before you plateau (or get bored as happens with home equipment). Unless you buy a professional or commercial machine there will always be limits to what it can do for you.  Price of a quality machine is determined by what its made of; it’s the cheap, mass produced ones that cost $80 to make and sell for $1000+

It’s sad that advertising plays on our media created desires for extreme beauty (rather than self acceptance) and the extreme body (rather than a strong, fit body) and it can be sexist.  Ignore it.

I used to believe, like you, that Vibra-Train maybe should make a high quality home machine but now I disagree. I now realise how important supervised training is. I’ve seen how badly people follow step-by-step instructions plus the many who second guess or think they know better.  I watch people who have come into the studio for over 2 years and know the program well; then they just decide to do it differently or they just get it wrong.  A regular home machine must allow for these deviations from perfect position, so it cannot be the very best possible.  Any injuries reflect badly on the supplying company even when the individual is negligent.

In New Zealand there are times when a Vibra-Train or maybe another high energy platform is placed in a private home or public health setting where one person is fully trained up and takes responsibility for the use of it.  It’s like a micro studio for a group of people for a specific purpose. 

But for your needs, if you possibly can get to ResonanceVT  twice a week, Just Do It! No excuses!

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-26 10:27:53

Hi Willie

I’m not a slim, athletic, young trainer. I’ve had to cope with slurs from within the industry (not the “look”) and occasionally from customers because I’m bigger and worse since last year as I had health problems.  While not as big as you I am battling the same issues.  Almost all customers relate to me well – we are in this together.

There are ways around the floor positions – except for one the poses can be done upright using the machine with side vibrating handlebars.  Some studios have a separate room, ours holds the bigger machines for athletes but one machine is also suitable for assisted poses.  

Even simpler, in this studio you would start by sitting on a chair with your feet on the front edge of the machine for 3 minutes x 3 times, followed by one or two assisted squats  (using the side handlebars for support and so your upper body gets a workout too).  You would progress from this ONLY when you hold the assisted squats perfectly.

You would WORK HARD even in these simplest poses.  Currently I have a few customers bigger than you and they are male. I am not nice and kind to them. One calls me “evil”; another says I am harder on him than Lloyd is.  I don’t quite subscribe to the “biggest loser” trainer mentality - I don’t want my clients having heart attacks but you would have to leave your embarrassment at the door.  Your life is more important than worrying about others.

 
Willie Posted On:2011-10-26 01:45:20

Di Heap,

Yes i have a Bodyshaker, the lower powered one not the pro.I am too heavy for this machine and probably need to upgrade but the cost of doing so is very prohibitive and quite frankly annoying as it is obvious the mark up on all WBV machines is extreme.

I was kindly given the oppurtunity to try a Vibratrain machine with ResonanceVT in Ampthill, UK.The staff where very friendly and very proffessional and the machine itself was brilliant absolutely brilliant.There was no staring or comments or anything that anyone done or said that put me off the concept just the fact that a 200kg guy trying to exercise in public is not an easy thing to do on a mentall level ie. getting up off the floor after the press up or plank is a very embarrassing thing to have to do.

Perhaps if studios had a seperate area for obese or morbidly obese people it would help.I know you mean well Di but untill you are this size i doubt you will truelly understand.

Also from what i can see an awful lot of the industry here in the UK seems to be focusing on the "beauty" side of things which means basically that u dont see many super obese males in these places.This is not a sexist remark, it just adds to the embarrassment and shame factor for me anyway.

I honestly do believe there is a huge oppurtunity for Lloyd to provide home use machines to people like me and the general public.I think he is unintentionally excluding most of the world from his amazing machines by insisting on the studio concept..

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-25 12:12:19

Willie

You’re right, It is really disappointing to read about home machine breakdowns.  I don’t think we will change Lloyd’s mind but as the industry matures we’ll be able to put our weight behind reputable brands.  It is happening.

I don’t think you have access to our studio system but let me tell you more about it (for others that will read this also). You would be totally comfortable in our studio.  That’s the exciting thing – we have people who are top athletes or personal trainers (who work gym nearby) training alongside office workers, bigger and obese people, unfit mothers, marathon runners, morbidly obese people who do a slightly modified program of squats until they can manage the regular Safety program, people with M.S or muscular dystrophy, even people in wheelchairs. 

I’ve never seen anyone look badly at anyone else and if that happened I’d ask the person to leave and not return. We don’t have mirrors; instead we have fully supervised training. We are seriously strict but we also have laughs and fun.  Three times a week I’m working with a morbidly obese guy who also has muscular dystrophy and his friend who has Parkinson’s disease.

Did you get a home machine? Without looking back many pages I can’t remember. Can we help you choose one or learn to use it?

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-25 11:34:18

Hey Keith,

I wasn’t even in N.Z. over the weekend. I watched the rugby world cup final with 1000’s of others on large outdoor screen in Sydney, Australia. Kiwi’s were massively outnumbered by French supporters (actual French plus some French Polynesian people and most Australians) so there was lots of heckling, anthems, and yelling during the match. Pre-match there was French Polynesian dancing, everyone was taught the Haka and more. We won! And then all the Kiwis erupted with the Haka, singing, dancing and more. I actually thought of you in RSA, watching and cheering us on. It was an amazing experience - yes worrying at times but we won.

 
Keith Posted On:2011-10-24 22:48:20

Im with you on that one Willie. Would have bought a machine from Lloyd no questions asked even tho my HG is still going strong..

Congrats on the RWC win guys, tenterhooks for a while. Shouldnt tease the French like that.

 
Willie Nugent. Posted On:2011-10-24 06:37:17

Maybe Lloyd you should seriously consider building a home unit for the public to buy as it appears yours are the only ones that dont break down.

I know your business model doesnt allow for that and that you truelly believe in the studio concept but i for one do not at all agree with you on that.I am an obese male who certainlt does not want to go to a studio full of non obese people and endour more embarassment and shame.

 
Mike M. Posted On:2011-10-24 02:51:46

Yes, you'd expect issues when you buy Made in China machines. But you also expect to pay a lot less than these premium prices. When the premium machines fail faster than the cheapies, well, there may not be any premium machines for long. And that would be a shame. And in Wave's case, jobs would be lost up in Canada.

Very disappointed for you, Patty. Hope it gets fixed pronto. (And I hope your dad's ok.) Maybe Wave should be reading on here since they lack their own forum; places like this might be where their fate is decided. What if the Hypervibe crowd gets a hold of this?

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-23 16:59:11
I feel very let down by Wave at present. As it was with HyperGravity all seemed good for a while and then BAM, issues with dodging warranty work and lack luster attitudes.  And a very obvious lack of testing under high pressure situations. Which would have shown up any weaknesses in the system straight away.
 
I do not expect perfection but it is so frustrating when you try to give a company a leg up, and this is the result.  
 
Patty Posted On:2011-10-23 15:32:14

Mike M

This last week was a bit crazy for me…my dad got taken by ambulance to the hospital…so I had to travel 440 miles to help him. I did not get to call Wave regarding my unusable machine until Thursday. I was very disappointed by their customer service. Rochelle answered the phone…and I told her who I was and that I had been waiting for a call back from Sandy regarding warranty on my broken machine. She said she was not aware I was having a problem, but would connect me with Sandy. Not only did Sandy not remember what was wrong with my machine, he had not made any notes from my call the previous week. After I refreshed his memory, he said he had e-mailed a couple of places to see if they could work on my machine, but he had not received anything back from them. I kept my cool, but was very stern with him. I asked him if he thought it was acceptable that over a week had passed and he had not followed up with me or with potential repair people. Did he not think it was time to pick up the phone and get this taken care of? He agreed. Then instead of telling me the same diagnosis as to what he thought was wrong with my machine from the previous week, he now told me that he thinks it is the touch screen not sending the message to the motors to turn on. So he is sending me a new screen, while he tries to find someone to install it for me. I should receive the new screen by this coming Wednesday. He hoped we could have the machine repaired before the end of the week. I hope is new diagnosis is correct so this repair work does not drag out.

It sounds like you are making a lot of progress on your machine. I am jealous, as it will end up being at least three weeks since my last session before my machine is fixed. I hope that when it is fixed, it will be the last repair work needed for a long, long time.

Oh, Sandy mentioned that he rarely sees problems with the Air Reflex, but they have had problems with the ProElite electronic screen. Sure glad we did not pop the extra two grand for that model! Perhaps you did in fact get the best deal in town….your model may have the least issues.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-23 11:39:25

Why do my staff get holidays and I don't ? 

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-23 11:16:19

 

Okay, Mike M

 

The Full pushup on a vibration platform is one position you are "allowed" to fail. Remaining in perfect position can be near impossible so it is better to hold it perfectly for 30 seconds and then lower knees to the ground in a VERY CONTROLLED manner, keeping  the upper body exactly in position. Never crash - control it.  (Its the one position I cannot do at all due to old shoulder injury so I admire those who can)

 

The Full Plank/Pelvic Stability isn't difficult - check out the YouTube video to make sure you are in correct position. I'm wondering if your shoulders are foreword instead of back, feet pointed back so your body is sloped like a plank. If you fail by hunching forward or your position is not correct to start with you will put undue pressure on your shoulders. 

 

Some people cannot hold the Plank for a full minute but I would expect you to do it (unless you have back injury)

 

(Right, I'm off to enjoy the near 30C degree Sydney sunshine.  Go All Blacks - Rugby World Cup. I'll be watching on the big screens down at Darling Harbour)

 
Mike M. Posted On:2011-10-23 04:12:10

I am talking about cramping as long as the pose (static) was held, with having to drop back to the lesser pushup or plank (knees down) due to weakness. As I said, I did not do upper body work on the Crazy Fit because I did not like it on a pivotal. So I am playing catch up there. It is improving though. Being able to move, just a bit (an inch or two is enough) is enough to stave off the cramping.

I don't think my upper body muscles are quite there yet as far as sustaining a contraction, static, for 60 seconds. My legs are a quite different story. For now I am doing them without the vest, and trying to do the pose as you described it to me, and the challenge seems to be increasing nicely. The last 30 seconds of the two minute pose is growing more difficult. I think I may have to decrease my walking soon or start to alternate because I get pretty fatigued on days I try to do both.

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-22 21:43:44

 

Mike M

 

Please explain - muscles seem to cramp up

 

Do they remain cramped after the 60 second position or do they just scream with a cramp like muscle contraction during the position?

 

We train to full fatigue - soon as the machine stops the "pain" goes away. The last 10 seconds of each pose is very difficult.

 

Every machine is different but even on what's most certainly the highest energy machine in the world (the level 5 lineal Vibra-Train) we do full 60 second positions. I've been heard to swear ocaisionally but I "just do it!" 

 

Note: Pain or cramp the continues more than a minute after the pose might require modification or discussion of what's going on. 

Note 2: I'm even harder on the guys clients now than Lloyd is, so I would just say - Harden Up -  but only you know what you are feeling. 

 

"But it's hard" will not be taken as a valid excuse for being out of position. Everyone finds it hard. 

We are called VIBRA-TRAIN not VIBRA-MASSAGE. 

 

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-22 18:01:23
The harder up comment being a joke of course.
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-22 16:38:04
Technically speaking a One / Third range of motion is ok.
 
Note: The reason we teach static is because people always over exaggerate this and go way too high or too low.  Read the first part of this...
 
 
Or you could just harden up       
 
Mike M. Posted On:2011-10-22 12:47:31

I had a question. I am just now getting to be strong enough to do the upper body exercises for the full minute. By that I mean the full push-up, the full plank etc. The only problem is, my muscles seem to cramp up if I try to hold a completely static pose. To counter that, I am doing a slightly dynamic motion, i.e., about an inch up and down range of motion while doing it to prevent the cramping. As I get stronger, I expect to be more able hold a static pose.

So, is it ok to do that slight range of motion for a while, while I wait to be able to be static? Or should I go back to a lesser pose or less time but be static? Is there any harm to the slight motion I'm doing?

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-19 17:57:59
Keith...
 
Di Heaps advice is spot on.
 
Important note: Do not let him even attempts a squat without load bearing handle bars to the side of him. Holding it exactly like in the video.
 
I would advise only sitting in front of it for a good month at least.   
 
Keith Posted On:2011-10-19 16:29:29

Hi Di. Thanks for the info will try and get him to believe in vibration therapy. Still have a thankfully working HG.

Lloyd, at some stage you mentioned you would be giving some more info on making up the rubber mat, dont know if Imissed that. How thick the rubber and what sort of density. Just using the foam mat at the moment. Thanks.

Rugby........ hmmmm yes we did pay a heavy Bryce....... but here in SA, I never thought we would see the day, you have 50 million people rooting for you. Had a few friends around to watch you guys play the Aussies, even my friend in kneed, and cheered wildy for every point you scored. Loved the who me expression on Pococks face when he got called up for hands in the ruck a few times, totally neutralised him. We will all be watching on Sunday having a rugby breakfast and rooting for you. Go All Blacks.

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-19 08:43:17

Keith

Take a look at this. Vibration Therapy for people with limited mobility

http://www.youtube.com/user/VibraTrain#p/a/u/0/EdtbCO6nU5M

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-19 08:06:30

Hey Keith

I was expecting you to comment on the Rugby World Cup. Interesting finals coming up this weekend.

Lloyd will no doubt comment but just to say hello – I would start your friend sitting in front of the machine like you’ve suggested, Low amplitude, 45-50Hz, short times at first, say 3 minutes and working up to 9 minutes.  His posture, even sitting, must be correct. Feet at 110 degree angle onto front edge of machine, using a rubber mat maybe to prevent slipping. This improves circulation and helps remove fluid from the legs.  Articular cartilage is unlikely to rebuild well but vibration therapy is a good try. His injections of Suplasysn will probably be repeated weekly for a few weeks and he must not do any weight bearing exercise (including vibration therapy and golf) for 48 hours after injection.

But, If he’s walking around the golf course okay then he can do some deep, flatfooted (flat shoes or just socks using your rubber mat on the platform) squats on the machine.  Feet hip width apart (hip bones not the outside), feet perfectly straight, not ever pointed outward!  Lower to just above sitting using the handlebars for support and stay there for 30-60 seconds.  Watch him and make him adjust down every 10-15 seconds as its usual to move upwards but the deep squat needs to be maintained as much as he can squat with knee injury or swelling.

 Just one minute then working up to 9 minutes but take that very slowly over weeks or months.  If I’m underestimating his abilities – he’s playing golf and walking miles? Then he can get into it faster.  Be aware; muscles get strong faster than cartilage and bone. He risks tearing any newly formed (lower grade) cartilage by twisting, side stepping or even walking too far – I know from experience.

I’m thinking you have a Vibrogym machine, yes?  Or you could both take an extended visit to the land of Rugby mania where we have machines with side vibrating handlebars so he’d be totally supported in the squat. He’d need about 2 months of therapy – a perfect excuse for a long holiday.

 
Keith Posted On:2011-10-19 05:03:28

Hi Lloyd, I do have friends who are healthy but can I let this one anywhere near my machine. When his knee was badly swollen and not responding to rest and treatment I offered to let him sit in front of my machine with his feet on the platform for a massage. but he wanted to follow the Drs advice to the letter. I did say I would ask your advice first. Now that he is more or less alright is there anything he can do on the machine.

The patient had arthroscopies done to both knees 5 months ago. The left knee has a badly torn meniscus and this was the first arthroscopy on that knee. The right knee had two previous arthroscopies during the past 6 years and the purpose of the third arthroscopy was to clean up the joint.The left knee was swollen for 4 months after surgery. A celestone injection into the left knee 2 months after surgery did little to reduce the swelling. This was followed by an injection of deca durabolin into the bum 3 months after surgery and this appeared to have little effect on reducing the swelling or hastening the healing process. Recently the left knee was injected with a suplasysn injection and this appears to have been successful in reducing most of the swelling and allowing the patient to play golf again with no significant after effects.

The patent will have to have orthotics made up to reduce further wear on both knees owing to the fact that he has grade 3 articular cartilage loss in the medial femoral condyle of both knees – the lateral compartments are healthy.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-19 00:05:03
They look like the standard Chinese versions sold on Alibaba   http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/279644185/Vibration_Plate.html    from this company... 
 
 
My advice is to ask where exactly the German parts are made.  And verify if they are telling the truth. All German companies have good websites promoting their work.  
 
Willie Nugent. Posted On:2011-10-18 23:39:51

Hi Lloyd,

                I am trying to find out a bit more about a pivotal unit being offered in the UK by Vibrostation, the link is www.vibrostation.co.uk/studiosystem_plus.asp

I spoke with them and they said it is all German made components but assembled in China.It sells for app. 5.5k Sterling which is a lot of money for a Chinese built machine.

 

 

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-18 15:08:47
Kathy T..
 
Also read this. There is no such thing as a bad or dangerous vibration training / therapy machine. It all depends on how it is used or promoted.
 
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-18 14:01:51
Kathy T..
 
Yes Kathy firstly we need to know what type of machine you are using. Please use this as a guide to tell us which type ....  http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/machine-reviews
 
Then we need to know how you were using it. What positions etc... 
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-18 00:46:33

Kathy T

I’m wondering why you “hired a machine to test for bad reactions”?

What were you expecting?

Do you have a medical or physical condition that required special advice about using the machine?

Did you follow a recommended Safety Program?  Who advised you on how to use it?

Please tell me you were NOT standing straight upright on the machine at full power for 10 minutes.

Please tell us what machine or type of machine you were using and what position you were in when you felt the discomfort

And , you did stop right away when you felt very uncomfortable, yes? 

 
Kathy T Posted On:2011-10-17 22:39:24

I hired a virbration machine to test for bad reactions.  After using the machine constantly for 3 weeks I did indeed find my body fitness improved. However, during the 4th week I tried the machine on full power for 10 minutes.  My head started to vibrat inside and didnt stop for 3 weeks, it was a weird sensation and I was decidedly worried. I havent used one since but I would like to. Anyone any thoughts about why this occured and is it danerous.

Kathy T. 

 
Mike M. Posted On:2011-10-17 03:40:05

Patty

Sorry the machine did not reset for you. Had hopes for that. I don't think it would be too difficult to work on, but any repairman has to be given the replacement parts, which no one is likely to have outside of Wave. Right now I imagine it's a guessing game as to which part(s) have failed. One thing about a machine that vibrates heavily, is that electrical connectors have to be made to be shock proof or they will fail, it's just a question of when. Were I working on it the first thing I would try would be to reinsert all connectors to see what that did.

As for the progress that you made, I imagine that if you built some real muscle in the brief time you had it working, it will come back fairly quickly once you go back to it.

I just recently started a routine where I am walking most days carrying a weighted vest on my shoulders. Just something I though to try to amp up my current walking program, which I had upped to 5 miles recently. Finding it hard to find energy to do both that and VT on the same days.

 
Patty Posted On:2011-10-16 16:40:47

Mike M

Sorry for not posting what has been going on with my broken machine, but I have been working some long hours with no time to get on this site until tonight.  I called Wave customer service on Monday...had to leave a message..perhaps they were celebrating Columbus day.  They did not call me back on Tuesday, so I called again on Wednesday.  I talked to gent named Sandy French.  He said it is unlikely that both motors are failing, so he thinks it is the drive unit.  The closest repair person he has in in Texas.  So he said he would have to do some research to find someone in Nashville to do the repairs.  Not very comforting....perhaps they are selling in areas they should not be selling...as they are not ready to respond to warranty issues.  He said they would also replace the touch screen.  I have not heard back from him yet...so they will be geting another call from me on Monday.  I hate to be a pest, but I have a 4500 piece of equipment that has only been used about 20 times and has already failed.  I got to thinking about how the machine had been acting before it failed..and realized that for the last week, it had quit jumping across the floor when it started vibrating.  Probably my imagination...but I did not think it was vibrating as strongly, even though I had it set at the same levels. 

I guess by the time my macnine is fixed, I will be back at ground zero.  I am back to the tread mill and our paramount weight system.  My husband wanted to sell the paramount equipment but thankfully I told him I wanted to keep it.  I just can not do the bench presses because of an issue with my left hand.  I think I pinched a nerve months ago when bench pressing...so those are out. 

Hopefully I will have better news regarding my Wave in a few days.   I remain disappointed in Tennessee.

 
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