Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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Mike M Posted On:2011-09-29 14:56:53

Does anyone here have any idea which university is doing the study that Jasper Sidhu is referring to? And when it might be going to be published?

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-09-27 17:39:46
The vibrations are not powerful enough to cause modern buildings any issue. Maybe if you lived on a swamp ......
It is the ambient vibration turning air pressure waves into vibration is the issue in most buildings. It just makes noise, it will not damage anything.   
Patty Posted On:2011-09-27 16:12:42


I read the article on vibration traveling through the floor / walls. It got me wondering….is it only the sound that is transferring …or is the actual vibration moving through the floor walls. Our Wave is in our lower level of the house…which is carpeted with a concrete floor under the carpet. Is there any chance of damage to the concrete floor or foundation of the house? My husband says that he does not hear or feel any vibration in the upper level of our house when I am using the machine. Just wondering…would not want to find any foundation issues a couple years out!

willie Posted On:2011-09-26 23:26:07

The specs of the branded machines may differ from the no name machines or the listed specs may differ from the actual specs.

The supplier i mentioned is on ebay france and has offered 10 of these units for app.3500 euro.

They must be making profit at that price so the branded machines must make enormous profit.

Just to clarify i am not a dealer,wholesaler or supplier of any kind just amazed at the mark up in the WBV industry especially as i was quoted over 8k sterling for a Galileo Sport which i know is not exactly comparing apples to apples but makes you think all the same.

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-09-26 13:50:15
Read this to help you understand......
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-09-26 13:47:38
(1)  We recommend Pivotal for people in apartments. Because they do not transfer vibrations into the floor so much.
(2)  It is hard to make a recommendation because we do knot know what country you live in.
Nazaar Posted On:2011-09-26 07:57:48


I am new to vibration machine (never used one) and would like to get one for fitness purpose.
There are so many choices and so much info.  I read many posts in this forum and came across brands like Fitvibe, Wave, Bodyshaker...
Among them Wave Contour Plus is within my budget yet I am kind of don’t like it after reading some posts about its “rattling” noise

I watched a video about DKN XG10 and it seems so quiet which I think is good for me as I am living in an apartment.
The price around $4,000 is also acceptable (provided that it is a good machine).
I will appreciate if the experts in this forum could give me some advice/suggestions.

Thank you very much!

Mike M. Posted On:2011-09-26 04:15:16
It appears to be all about the hype over there. Who knows, maybe there is actually going to be a new machine released fairly soon? That would be an interesting development indeed. If it goes for the price I saw predicted, I don't see a whole lot of sales over here happening. I think I have Contour Plus #197 myself, and it's been around what, almost 3 years now? And its price is like 1/3 of what is predicted. Looks sort of like a dozen rats fighting over one morsel of cheese...
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-09-24 09:23:04
Mike M...
Yes a highly inaccurate test.

Mike M. Posted On:2011-09-23 23:23:45

I tried the pencil test with a lot of misgivings due to the source(s) of the technique used (seems awfully crude). One thing I noticed right away was that if you just tape the pencil to the Wave platform, you don't get any displacement because the rubber mat that is built into the platform absorbs all the vibration, because a pencil has no weight. It simply won't press the pencil anywhere close to the platform so no vibration get through. I wonder if that is the problem the Pelletiers are having? You have to press that pencil down with something heavy to get any results.

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-09-23 13:33:11
Mike M....
Regarding Waves G-Forces. You may also find that Wave know that the G-Forces will only be copied and pasted by other companies or misused as "directly comparable" to Pivotal machines to fool the public aka .. HyperVibe ( same reason I keep Vibra-Trains a secret ) And that G-Forces are not the only force that is important.
Remember quite a few companies out there do not want other forces discussed.
I will be doing a video soon that will completely destroy the G-Force is everything theory. Something undeniably logical that everyone will understand.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-09-23 13:13:52
Mike M...
The IVTRB program is the "minimum" requirement for results you can see in 3 weeks. A lot of people do extra upper body poses.
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-09-23 12:00:13

Testing machines using a pencil gives some idea but it can have a huge margin of error.  I’ve seen accelerometer and other tests on the machines I use so I know they work to spec.  A machine has to be accurate and it also has to produce a response and results in the user.

But I’m amused by this whole aspect of measuring amplitude. 

If I use the “simple G-force” calculator to check out the lineal machines I use then one of the machines gets a very low result.  That machine gives such a punchy workout with a deep muscle contraction – it’s one of the machines the athletes prefer. Yet it’s also used for physio use.

Frequency and amplitude ALONE  belong to pivotal machines – not lineal.

Mike M Posted On:2011-09-23 01:00:20

You know, I noticed that yesterday and thought about it, I guess it makes sense, but it's a bit disconcerting nevertheless. What I did was those one-leg-on, one-leg-off squats. I had to set the time to 2:30 to challenge me because it's easier to do just one leg. But what I noticed was that it was actually harder to do my stronger leg, which is my left. It's the one I noticed that the VMO is a bit larger than the other one. It's noticeably harder to do the full 2:30 on the good leg. This is completely reversed from what a free weight squat would be like, because I would have to deal with lots of pain from the bad leg.

Each session I am also trying to do one set of the single leg squat; I know it's not recommended but I feel that it challenges me more in 1:00 than the other does in 2:30. If I hold on to the handles real tight I can keep my form steady. If I didn't hold the handles I would fall over right away.

Hey, I notice that IVTRB has total 4 minutes of squats and 3 minutes of upper body. I assume this is not exactly cast in stone, is it? Seems to de-emphasize upper body a bit.

Jasper Sidhu emailed me back and won't tell me the G forces on the Contour Plus because it's going to be published in a university study and I suppose there's a prior privilege to those people, or something like that. Maybe I'll pull out a pencil and see what I can measure myself.

Franco Posted On:2011-09-22 15:12:49

I can confirm what Lloyd said many times in this site, vibration training gets harder the more you keep doing it. After almost three months of continuous training on the Vibrogym Pro and Evo, three times per week, I now feel like every position is a challenge to keep the right way. I now alternate low and high amplitude and change frequencies to vary the intensity, but it keeps getting harder no matter what the settings are. I do the same with my clients and they feel the same way, for example they often ask me if I raised the frequency from the last time they trained to make it harder, and I tell them "no, it's just because you are gaining more muscle cells, so you feel a stronger contraction". That makes them feel very good about themselves, and it's not just a feeling, but real improvements in their physical shape. One word about's true that you don't get the vibration like when you are in direct contact with the platform, but if used the right way they give a decent workout anyway. Of course, the straps require the person to contract the muscles voluntarily, like in the bicept curls or side rises, but the combination of voluntary contraction and vibration gave me pretty good results so far. I prefer doing it and make the workout a couple of minutes longer... Vibration training is addictive! :-)

Mike M Posted On:2011-09-21 22:14:43

Wow. That looks like it's going to become like the arms race. If you don't have that expensive equipment for your athletes, you cannot compete. Not a level playing field. $31,000 for a treadmill? Sheesh.

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-09-21 17:43:36,0,1011893.story

John Posted On:2011-09-21 11:25:05

Keep up the great work exposing unethical behavior Lloyd et al. The concentrated effort of our community will make a difference if we remain vigilant.  Vibration training can be something people can be proud to be associated with as long as our community continues to exert power and influence.

John Weatherly

Patty Posted On:2011-09-20 12:44:24


Thanks for the notes of caution on the lunges.  I have been able to hold the pose for one minutes with no breakdown.  Since using my Wave, my knees have felt great.  I found that running on the treadmill made them a bit sore....but no issues using vibration.  I may take the lunge out of  my routine for a while since the squat gives me what I need.

Mike M Posted On:2011-09-20 11:59:15


Did you see the "rant" on that other site by Deb Pelletier where she put down the Wave Pro Elite? She claimed to have tested it with a pencil and found it only gives 1mm and 5G of output.

I wonder what she would think about that machine you built that you called what, a level 5? That only puts out 1 or 2 mm but has the strongest pressure?

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-09-18 16:30:09


Please be very careful with lunges.  As an instructor with high energy machines I do not allow anyone to do lunges (at first I let the sprinters and netball athletes do them).  There is NO room for error!!!

I can’t emphasise that enough. The pressure on your front knee can be sufficient to cause injury over time, if you do not maintain perfect position. Squats, squats and more squats (no, really, not too many) are way more effective than the lunge. I realise your machine has less intensity than the ones I use but please be careful.

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-09-18 14:48:41
Why does it get harder the longer I do Vibration Training  ..... ?
Usually if you were doing the same weight at the gym every time you went, it would eventually get easier, then you would shift up a weight. But what is going on in true Vibration Training is not even similar. For a start it is important to pin-point the exact poses that get harder, because not all of them do. They are always the "Direct Response"  poses. ( see here for the definition  )
This is where your body is either pushing or pulling in a direct response to the platform or handle bars. And the thing people fail to account for is if you get stronger and gain muscle cells ( important part of burning more fat ) that eccentric contraction will also get stronger and you will be using more cells and energy than ever before. So the "perceived exertion" should increase not decrease. 
Note: If anyone wishes to test the above theory it is simple, do resistance training alongside true Vibration Training and right at the point were Vibration Training seems to get harder, you will have a jump in strength at the gym.
Your husband and you should work until super fatigue sets in. This is the point of collapse in a position.  That time will extend as you use the product more. The perceived exertion rate will stay high, but your tolerance to the pain will increase.
Can your husband use the machine by himself .... ?
Sorry I can not answer that question. It really depends on a number of factors. His injury being cleared and his determination level to get everything correct. I know personal trainers I wont let on the machines without guidance. 
Patty Posted On:2011-09-18 13:47:58


I have the Wave Air Reflex and yes, it also does the funny rattle at sart up and when it stops.  At first Ithought this was wierd too.  My machine has slowing been inchng its way across the floor...t0 the point it finally pushed my tread mill out of the way..  I finally realized that it was the start up that made the machne jump a bit...which inched it across the floor.  I have noticed with my machine that there are different sounds depending on the setttings and poses I am doing.  Based on what Mike M found out from Jasper...I think your machine and mine are actually very simiiar...except that my digital screen gives the actual frequency and I an adjust in one hz increments.  Mine is also heavier. 

Anything is possible, so if you think the machine is not operating correctly, you need to call Wave and talk to them.  Mike M shoudl be able to compare what you are seeing with his machine.  i find the super squat to be the most difficult 43 and high...I am finally at 90 seconds...but not to the two minutes yet.  Although my legs are strong, I know you guys have more muscle and perhaps find them much easier to do.  Lunges are also try them if you haven’t already. When I first got my machine…most of the poses seemed easy at 38 and high during the first couple of uses.  But for some reason…the more consistent I have been with using the Wave….it seems to be harder at times. Not sure why this is…perhaps Lloyd could enlighten us on this.

Lloyd ...when you say that my husband should work his legs to the point of you mean soreness...or to the point he can not hold the pose?  I have not been successful in getting him to use the Wave much. He was very interested in using the machine until it arrived.. Now he seems to be afraid of it. After reading more of your articles…I have been able to get him to sit on his walker and just put his legs on he platform. I set it at 50 and high…for three minutes. He says it feels good. He won’t use the machine without me here….which perhaps is good, but unfortunately I have a very demanding work schedule, so I am not home a lot. In your opinion, should he be safe using he machine on his own? Also, is there a “best time of day” to exercise. I normally have to do my workout at 9pm …and it takes me about 40 minutes including the 10 minues of massage that I like to do at the end. Is this too late…or does it really matter?

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-09-18 13:23:49


Like Lloyd said, the rattle at startup and stop is normal on your type of machine. We have a similar one in the studio here and it takes about 5 seconds to get going and to stop.

Your query about the “feel” of the machine; I think you are comparing it with the sensation you feel on a pivotal machine which is a feeling of shaking your body.  This can be perceived as harder than the sensation of a medium energy lineal machine on a single position or one off session; it is a shake, it’s not the deep muscle contraction of the lineal which is what builds muscle strength. 

You must be very strict in getting into and holding perfect position, you’ll definitely feel the muscle contraction of you are doing it right – and get great results.

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-09-18 09:34:13
A calculator is no good, as the theoretical and actual physical readings will not be the same.
A chart should be very easy to make given the engineering tests figures. .
Mike M. Posted On:2011-09-18 04:25:56

I may ask Jasper what the "G" rating would be for each level on the Exercise program. Or is there a formula I can use to calculate it myself?

Mike M. Posted On:2011-09-18 04:17:27


Try doing a semi-squat as in the IVTRB program, arms folded, don't hold the handles, on Exercise, high, level 7, for 2 minutes. Let me know if that burns or not. Oh, and don't use the blue pad. in fact, barefoot may be best.

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-09-17 23:18:23
(1) It is highly unlikely the motors were damaged during delivery.  If you really think there is a problem then Wave should help.
(2)  By strict I mean maybe a few added poses for longer periods than 60sec. And by Stricter on a High Energy Lineal means perfect posture due to the leap in force being produced by the plate.
The Wave is a smooth unit to work with, which means it gives a decent punch in that 3mm ( or so )  but very controlled. Not like a Pivotal that seems "rough and hard"  but in physics terms much less force is being produced and directed into muscles. It is almost like a misdirection of sensations. 
ChrisL Posted On:2011-09-17 20:05:07


Thank you for the "rattle" answer.  I have 3 questions. I have been testing the machine and worked out on it and noticed quite different sounds from the motor at different levels, especially the higher levels and frequencies, it almost sounds damaged or laboring.  The reason I ask is I am wondering if the machine is defective for when delivered the Box at the base looked messed up and protruding out.  

1)     Is there a way to have my Contour Plus tested? Working properly.

2)     When I use the thick blue mat.  It is almost as if i cannot feel the vibration or effect.

3)     I read in previous post you consider Contour Plus a medium Energy Lineal machine.  You stated that you get results if you follow a strict program.  What do you mean Strict and does this mean if I purchased a High Energy machine I can be less strict with routine?

 The reason I ask you is I never tested the Contour Plus Prior to Purchase (long story).  I used other Machines and read very Positive reviews on Wave and you like the company and recommend a Steel unit from them.  I guess I am concerned because I worked out on it and did not feel exhausted or pumped or the effect as I have had on others. In fact I feel less engaged than I have on pivotal Machines and wondering if I made a mistake.   I debated back and forth Lineral vs. Pivital and chose Lineal because of stregnth and power and thought I could also develop Balance on it via various poses.  I am new  to WBV.

 Thank you for the help.



Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-09-17 17:15:13

If I am not mistaken Globus was the first company to list Gs in their touch screen programs alongside the Fq / Amplitude. Another company called SilverPlate also did this some years back. But the lack in education around this equipment meant no-one "got it".  

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