Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-13 12:30:07
Another classic quote from an online auction ....
 
" Anyway I did my research when my friend offered this to me, he paid $4,000 and had used it about 10 hours, so its like new.  "
 
Contradiction anyone ?   
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-11 13:54:48
Gary...
 
Unfortunately no unbiased professional Vibration Training around.  90% marketing.
 
I even really only specialize on training methods based on my "theories". The only difference is I took the gamble of practicing what I preach as actual company policy. It was a multi dimensional idea.
 
 
If you look at the names of the people who preach, teach and sell ideas, they are so unconvinced they are right, they fail to even test their theories with their own body, time and money. 
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-05-11 10:50:05

Gary

I do staff training for Vibra-Train and I insist that the videos about each position be watched before the in-studio teaching session and before trainers are allowed to train customers.  Also, I often show Lloyd Shaw’s Advanced Program (via my iphone) to people I meet at Sports Expo’s and other places.

 

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-05-11 10:44:56

There is no formal training program that we recommend.  

But there is excellent training available from Vibra-Train on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/user/VibraTrain

The Instructor Training Series is essential watching for all Personal Trainers and Fitness Instructors who use Vibration Machines with their clients. There is even a video showing how to use pivotal and lineal machines for people with limited mobility.

 

Start here to get an overview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPUQji9RPsA

Then watch the short training video about each position. You already have the poster so you know the order (unfortunately YouTube doesn’t let us sort them into folders)

Here’s the first one: The Basic Squat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fWoFeiPkcY

Follow that with the Mini Push-Up, the Wide Stance Squat and so on.

Gary, for your own use there’s an Advanced User Video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PikfQv7uwwo

 
Gary Posted On:2012-05-10 23:19:39

Just one more point i would like to clarify,is there any form of industry training that is out there,im a level 3 personal trainer and ive given my staff in house training on the safety program.is this ok, the only companys in the uk that i can find that do any type of formal training are power plate which is a big no, and dan fivey of vibrogym who is on your sinners list.thanking you in advance Gary. 

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-10 14:58:02
Virginia...
 
Medium Energy Machine. The company has a good record and is probably a safe bet for a Lineal machine.
 
Make sure you get advice from us how to get the best out of it.
 
Virginia Posted On:2012-05-10 13:54:34

Do i want to buy a vibration machine DKN xg 3.0, i,l be making a good purcharse you view

 
John Posted On:2012-05-10 03:10:54

I will look forward to this information.  We have to expose these people and clean the mess up.  Keep up the great work.

John T. Weatherly

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-09 21:57:21
Will soon be re-releasing 3 articles originally posted in 2009 about recommendations for opening commercial premises.
 
I will be placing exerts from an " experts"   recent advice on the exact same subject, along with comments from this same expert on the actual articles published in 2009 ( some public some email ) .   
 
 
Getting very tired of our community not being credited for our published work, and instead others trying to take credit for the knowledge we share.
 
 
Real experts correctly attribute. Fake experts claim as their own .    
   
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-08 15:11:48
Mike M....
 
Good question on other forum to Wave owner. .  
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-07 12:25:56
This article applies directly to your question...
 
 
 
I can answer far more specific questions. As I have placed many different brands in various buildings.
 
John Posted On:2012-05-07 11:51:48

I am  building owqener looking to rent space to a vibration gym. Has anybody ever experienced problems with buildings vibrating from the machines and creating problems with other tenants.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-06 18:11:12
Mike M...
 
Companies hire marketers. Marketers can not help themselves. So sometimes that is the result.
 
But who knows. Might be innocent. As I said. Ask a specific question, even a slightly negative comment and see what reaction you get.
 
Marketers are like lawyers. They can not concede a point, so stand out in their over the top defence of the product they are selling.      
 
Mike M. Posted On:2012-05-06 05:21:25

Wave does viral marketing?

They lose a ton of my respect, if true.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-05 11:06:39
Mike M... ( about comment on another forum )
 
That is more than likely just a viral marketer. You can usually tell by the way they speak. Try getting specific info off them, as that is a sure fire way of seeing if they are the real deal.
 
Note: Most marketers and salespeople in this industry do not even use Vibration Training themselves.  So they are clueless on the details of how to actually use a machine. I have customers who could take them to school.     
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-05 10:45:38
Kevin...
 
Yes you are right. But with only a few High Speed Pivotal units around, I really hoped the companies selling them caution people not to "wind them up" on all poses. 
 
Note: 99% of units out there hit 6G max on the outside edge. 
 
You will note I was already trying to differentiate upper body from legs on speed settings on the Pivotal program. But very hard to do past "the concept" of speed with the Pivotal industry only now starting to clarify real Fqs ( as opposed to fake ) 
 
 
I have spent the last half decade just getting the basics across to industry players and we have made headway.  I see greater clarification and joint educational material being released soon.          
 
Kevin-A Posted On:2012-05-04 22:17:21

Lloyd

Firstly thanks for the safe program for pivotal machines. Just a note regarding the wide stance squat . I feel this could cause undue pressure on the inner calf. The trouble with the wide stance is that it encourages users to use the maximum deflection which will exhibit the max g force on the foot. If you relax the feet the presure somewhat reduced and I feel this stance should only be used by very expienced and fit users.

Although I must say the pelvic stability exercise is a great additional pose I have now started using in my workout

Regards

Kevin A

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-03 14:10:23
...
 
I see no reason to pay and it would infer you did something wrong.
 
You are allowed to defend yourself. You do not need a lawyer and you have enough information now to directly dispute any opinion her "consultant" has. In fact I would say the consultant would change their opinion when faced with a study that clearly states Vibration applied directly to the skull neither positively or negatively effects the condition.
 
Gary Posted On:2012-05-03 08:49:52

Lloyd and Dean thanks for your response to my question. the amount of mony she is asking for is quite small  250 pounds uk, do you feel its worth fighting this case which i do or do you think i should pay her and move on.even though i feel i have done nothing wrong.thanks Gary.

 
Dean Posted On:2012-05-02 05:52:25

Gary

Not to go into details, but there is almost no chance that vibration training (especially safety program which reduces head vibration to a minimum) caused benign paroxysmal positional vertigo. There is always a chance that it could provoke it in the same manner as long walking can provoke pain in already arthritic knees. Suffice to say that vibration has been used, and still is to treat this condition. And we are talking about vibration transferred directly to a mastoid process of the skull.   More about that on :
http://www.cmaj.ca/content/169/7/681.full

http://archotol.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/126/5/617?ijkey=2273e080ee25ae531891f8e6912bfb7e2d04012c&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha


 

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-01 16:30:38
What happens to $7000 machines value after 2 years.
 
 
Why. Because it was not a real commercial machine as advertised.
 
Eg... a $14,000 Vibra Gym ( new )  can now get a second hand price of $5000  after 5 years of use.
 
 
One of these things is not like the other. 
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-01 16:20:12
Gary...
 
Vibration Training done "properly = precisely"  carries no more risk than any other form of activity.In reality because you cant even see the person moving, far less than most. 
 
 
The study was done on an older female group with no reports of any such issues. And in fact the conclusion was....
 
" Vibration Training generates stress level equivalent to the level during walking and stair-climbing."
 
Note: Your units are about the quarter power of my standard level 2 ( they go up to level 5 ) and we have never even had a single ACC claim against us. The fact this technology has been available to the public for a decade now in multiple countries with no mass negative reports ( which you would expect if any inherent risks were a factor ) . The worst we get is people not liking it. 
 
I would be the first one to disclose and bring to the industries attention any suspected medical problems. After all I am not in this for the sales, just the science.
 
Recent eye surgery might have been an issue, but not for the condition she has ( benign paroxysmal positional vertigo )
 
 
It is unfortunate but the condition can strike for a number of reasons. It is of course possible Vt caused it, but no more so than any activity anyone chooses to do. After all the condition has been a diagnosis lomg before Vt was invented. 
 
Gary Posted On:2012-05-01 04:34:10

Hi just a quick question, we use vibrostation machines in our studio using the safety program for lineal machines. We had a client who had a free trial which seemed okay at the time, we checked her medical conditions to which she had previously signed and there were no contra indication .  Now 3 months later she has wrote to us saying she has been suffering from benign paroxysmal positional vertigo which her consultant said was probably caused by the vibration plate being too violent. She has also now revealed that she had laser eye surgery the previous year which she did not put on her medical questioner. She has asked for an out of court settlement or she is going to instruct her solicitor to start formal proceedings against us .Do you believe the machinens could have caused this ........

Thanking you inadvance .   Gary 

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-29 16:13:05
An article on the problems with some research and academic bias....    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/12/13/101213fa_fact_lehrer
 
I think our industries researchers will be proven in time to not just be biased ( for or against ) , but actually deliberately negligent to the point of fraud.
 
It is not just the "positive effects conclusions" they jumped to, but the people they could of helped if they had been honest about their own intellectual limitations. 
 
 
Pretend experts do hurt people in the long run.   
 
      
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-25 23:54:06
David...
 
" I did tried vibrogym before and I didn't feel it was very strong for training" ........ It must have been a home machine. The Pro unit is very strong.  In fact nothing else really for retail that is any stronger.  Similar yes, like the vibratrimmer. But not stronger.
 
A two motors system is usually better.    
 
Using either a Pivotal or a Lineal would help with Therapy issues. It just has to be used in the right way, or it can be quite a waste of time and money. 
 
Best bet is to stick to the basics you can do safely with your injuries.
 
 
David Posted On:2012-04-25 18:17:08

Does anyone have any experience with DKN xg10, it only has one motor, could that mean that machine with 2 motors like vibratrimmer is stronger-better, like I said I did tried vibrogym before and I didn't feel it was very strong for training, altough my primary interest is for now therapy (short, overused and torn muscles). What type of machinne would be more apropriate for that kind of problems, lineal or pivotal? Which one would be more beneficial to lets say greater blood flow, muscle relaxation-lengthening, breaking collagen or maybe even scar tissue. Hope I'm not asking too much different thing in one post.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-24 13:30:30
The other website actually deleted comments and recommendation about the machine/company David is asking about.  I was looking for something in my email, but unfortunately 99% of Q&A were done online. I do have most of it saved, but too much to go through. ( Note: You used to be able to search the forum for particular words as well which was a big help for everybody )
 
To give you an idea of the scale of the info deleted for greed's sake. 4477 posts. 3 years of consumer info.
 
All of it aimed at helping people such as yourself make good decisions.      
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-23 21:28:39
David...
 
More similar to a VibroGym in feel. Even though the new Power Plates are stronger than the older Chinese made models.
 
 
massamagra....
 
The site is ok but very limited in real time knowledge. Read this to understand.....  http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/engineering-reports-and-vibration-training-experts
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-23 20:34:13
For Everyone's Interest.......
 
Here is the answer to David's question on "the other site" 
 
 

Never heard of it. The platforms we support are listed. Outside of that, buyer beware.

The company and machine has been around longer than "expert" Gabriel Ettenson has been involved in Vibration Training. Just another of the 200 or so brands he is clueless about.(  About a dozen which are high quality units I would recommend. )

One of these sites is not like the other.  Buyer beware indeed.  

         

 
David Posted On:2012-04-23 20:00:56
sorry, somehow I missed your answer, and by rhe way thanks for quick response,  yes I asked the same question on other site because I want more opinions howewer they now nothing about it.
 
Anyway Im mostly interested in lineal vibration, I did try the vybrogym evolution and powerplate pro before, could you make a comparison with that machine, what do you think about the price-performance ratio.
 
I would also like to know what is your opinion on the italian site massamagra, they provide quite a lot info about diferent vibrating machines, howewer they are also sellers, so I am not sure about their honesty, and they mostly favorize pivotal machines like galileo.
 
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