Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-13 20:51:43
Mike M..
The plank is only effective in vibration training if done certain ways ( on my programs ) . I really need to do a video on this one to show the sheer stupidity of companies teaching other versions.
Mike M. Posted On:2012-04-13 05:35:12

Do you guys think the side plank (plank but up on one elbow & turned sideways) is effective used with VT? Would you put your elbow or your feet up on the platform?

John Posted On:2012-04-13 03:47:30

I think this is so true Di.  For example, go to youtube and look at the videos of Nick Winkleman and Power Plate.  Nick works for Athletes Performance and they have been a corporate partner of Power Plate for many years now.  People see stuff like this and blindly copy it.  It is very sad so-called professional organizations like the NSCA give people like Winkleman credibility.  He is speaking on periodization protocols at their national conference this summer.  They have been in bed with Power Plate for years.  I called Mark Verstegen who is Chairman of Athletes Performance numerous times several years ago to ask about his relationship with Power Plate.  Mark would never answer.  And this is somebody I used to correspond with and even wrote a couple advertising articles with several years ago.  Mark even kicked me off his site several years ago for just asking questions about Power Plate.

John T. Weatherly

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-04-12 00:33:22


The next article I write will be titled - Instructors need to be tough! - After three years of working as a vibration training instructor and sometimes studio manager, plus two years of part time work and with lots of learning and investigating this is perhaps the best advice I can give to people planning to be owners of Vibration Training studios and instructors working in studios or gyms that have machines. 


To be successful in this industry, to have customers who keep training because they are getting great results you need real machines, a real safety program (designed to work with the machines) and real tough instructors - wait for my article for more on this.


An example: In the past two weeks I’ve had 3 or 4 customers straight out lie to me. They tell me another instructor has given them a special position because they have some special needs or an injury. The instructor must then decide immediately if the customer has made up the position - and almost every time, they have. (that’s easy - it’s not part of the Safety Program for training or therapy).  Sometimes they’ve seen a pose on YouTube or another training place and instead of asking if it’s suitable for your machines they just go ahead and try to do it, disregarding the fact that they’ve never seen random poses done and only ever seen people following the Safety Program - shown in big posters on the walls. These people are asked to leave if they argue.


Or, the customer has twisted good advice given to them - Today a regular customer started to do a position that is not training or a therapy pose. I turned the machine off immediately and was then told they had been told by Lloyd Shaw to do exactly what they were doing. They even gave me a good reason, it was because of an injury. 


It was easy to guess what they had actually been told - to put some effort into the program, to hold the poses perfectly because the injury they had would be helped that way.  They construed - keep your heels down hard on the platform (in the squat position) to mean something very different and even argued to continue their error. Their imagined position was so far from anything in Therapy or Training -  I said it was wrong, unsafe, and that ONLY when Lloyd Shaw tells me, then they can do it - believe it or not they still said they were right. 


I’d made that sort of mistake a week ago, allowing a customer to use a different type of machine that he had no reason to use and then correcting him when he used it wrong - because he convinced me he had been told to use it. He’d lied and those who know Lloyd Shaw will realise how much trouble I was in when he found out. 


There was no chance of making that mistake again, today’s customer’s pose was completely random - and dangerous. And more than even a week ago, I’ve become tougher. 


I think the studio needs a new sign that reads - The Customer is Always Wrong! 

I’m thankful for the IVTRB Safety Program. That takes the guess work away so the instructor should get it right at least 99.9% of the time.

John Posted On:2012-04-10 00:17:53

Keep up the great work exposing these con artists.  It is quite sad they are so prevalent in the exercise field.  Like you have said, "Bad people prosper when good people do nothing."  It is up to us to clean up the vibration industry by exposing these scams.  Your are leading the way.

John T. Weatherly

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-08 18:21:44
But thanks to this weeks Viral marketers award, I found this lovely little gem from a Power Plate blogger...
 " it decreases the fattening hormone and increases fat burning hormones and voila i cant get above 6 percent body fat.  just look at the freaking testimonials.  What it really does is tune the harmonics of your cellular structure.  If you don't understand anything about vibration ,frequency or energy (quantum mechanics) it will not make sense.  That's why only smart old rich people tend to use it.  I've been doing athletic training for the last 8 years and I've been doing the power plate for 2 months and my physique improved faster than anything I've ever seen before.
There is so much wrong with it, I don't even know where to start. It would be funny as hell if he wasn't serious.  
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-08 17:46:24
The only company I know of that would claim a non-existent FDA rating is Power Plate ( probably at a guess the $9000 machine you mention )  Which may be 9K, but that price is only for the idiots who do zero consumer research.  So your Dr is either a con artist, or an idiot.   
Finding your name and exact wording from your previous post on other sites, attached to the machine " 3G AVT Vibration machine". ( accompanied by BS marketing directly stolen from Power Plate ) . Kind of gives you away some.
Warning to readers...
Jane / Jaim'e  etc.... is a viral marketer for a brand of cheap plastic machines. A bunch of them are bombing the net now with fake " pleased consumer feedback reports" .
It is in fact a direct copy of a Power Plate, which in itself is a fake machine pushed by dishonest marketers.
So Jane is promoting a copy of a fake. With all the same 3D, do lunges on the machine BS.
A message to 3G AVT....
We will now make sure every post you put up on any forum has this warning behind it. You blew it.
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-07 19:16:10
What brand of machine are you referring to ? 
J'aime Posted On:2012-04-07 11:39:51


I had heard about these vibration machines about a year ago from my chiropractor for building bone density and started doing my research on vibration machine reviews online. While it does seem like there are so many cheap knock offs out there I was looking at the brand that has a medical device number from the FDA, which means they have proven it does what they say it does, it’s the one my chiropractor uses but it is very expensive (over $9,000!) and I don’t a full blown commercial machine for my house. The more research I did I found that the type of movement is very important; moving in 3 fields, up and down, side to side, and back and forth is what all the positive research pointed to. The frequency range it can go to will make a difference, mine goes up to 50hz! The machines weight is also important especially for balance and strength use, you don’t want it to tip over when leaning back into a deep squat or stretch. I tried out a few different models and brands at my local fitness store which really helped me see the difference in quality. The inexpensive ones were not even close to the sturdiness and quality I was feeling using the one at the Dr.’s office. I found a great machine I am really happy with and after 6 month of using it 4 days a week I am happy to report I am no longer in osteopenia (pre-osteoporosis) and have actually had an measurable increase in bone density! I am buying a vibration machine for my mom now because she has osteoporosis and has been on medicine for a few years now with no benefit (and a bunch of scary side effects). I’ll keep you posted but I could not be more thrilled with the machine I bought, well worth it! 

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-05 20:26:47
Any variation in your program is good. Either time or Fq.
Make sure you do not over-train. Very easy to automatically think more is better.  You have to see how your body actually reacts to VT.
Hard to tell if your machine is acting up or not, as those units adjust themselves all the time.
Mike M...
I think with any machine type, it is important to consider a few things..
(a) How long that exact unit has been around.
(b) What kind of results have people similar to your age, sex, weight etc...  obtained so far with that unit. And how long did they take to achieve those results.
My next article on my experiences to date will show the learning curve I have been through. You may find it interesting.
Mike M. Posted On:2012-04-05 14:18:09

Patty, good to hear from you again. Sorry the Wave still has problems. What are they this time?

YOu might get some idea whether the machine is close to spec by getting a digital tachometer (they sell on ebay for around $10 or so). They come with some reflective tape and use a laser to measure the rpm. Of course you must do some minor math to convert that to Hz. But that can give you an idea of the frequency. I got one and the frequency seems pretty close on mine.

I tried the (very crude) pencil method to try to measure amplitude but even high seemed to only be around 1mm. I asked if I ought to remove that rubber pad that is built in but nobody seems to know.

I have not been real happy with how my body has reacted to VT on a lineal since I got the Wave. But it is more a matter of my health issues than the machine. The machine seems to work fine as far as it goes. I'm left wondering if I might have had better results if I'd gotten a pivotal like the Hypervibe. Lately I do not do much VT.

Patty Posted On:2012-04-03 15:36:23

I finally seem to have my dad’s health stabilized, allowing me to concentrate on my vibration training again. As a reminder, I have the Wave Air Reflex. I have been training consistently for the past 6 weeks - three times per week. I have the machine set at 37 hz and high intensity. I can do the full two minutes on most poses (the push up gives me the most trouble, and sometimes I fatigue at one minute 30 seconds). My question - is it best to continue to increase the hz at 1 hz increments - or should I just move up to the ideal 40 hz. If I do this, should I drop back go two 1 minute poses with the 30 second delay in between poses? Low intensity does nothing for me, so I plan to keep it at high with any change to the hz. I use the treadmill at least 4 times per week, and the biggest thing I have noticed is that my knees do not bother me at all since I have combined the vibration training with the pounding I get on the tread mill.

As a side note, I still have issues with my Wave - but fortunately it is still usable. Wave customer service has not been very responsive, so I will be writing a letter this week. I really wish there was a way to test the machine, as I don’t have any confidence that is operating correctly at all. If you have any recommendations as to how it could be tested, please let me know. I’ve asked them to have someone knowledgeable check out the machine, fix the issues, and also extend my warranty or provide me with a new machine. My rep told me he would have to talk to the owner and get back with me…it will be three weeks tomorrow…not very fast response…perhaps the owner is on a long vacation!

Thanks for all the info you post here...I have been enjoying catching up on all the posts and reading the articles again.

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-02 15:43:26
Give you 3 guesses which sections apply to DZT
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-04-02 10:48:38

Fake Specs means the machine does not perform to the specifications stated or advertised.

It’s like buying a racing car that says it runs perfectly from 1 – 100 miles per hour but you take it out on the highway and its true maximum speed is 60 miles per hour

The car is useful for around town, not for racing.

Diane Posted On:2012-04-02 06:09:11

DZT V7000 machines are being sold on Victoria, Canada and every where else in Canada.  The machines have fake specs! What do you mean by fake specs

Can you not get some rehabilitation on that machine

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-03-31 17:03:56


A low speed pivotal machine can be a starter  – for therapy. It isn’t going to be effective for training and fitness.  The warranty on cheaper machines is not always honoured so be careful how much you pay – maybe get a resale machine. In New Zealand where I live there are many, very many, on auction sites.

I am surprised your Chiropractor has a Crazyfit machine.  There are several models but they do not test accurate to stated specs. 

Maybe wait until you can get a better machine or use finance to get a high speed pivotal, or medium or high energy lineal. Make sure you try both type, you might prefer one over the other.  NEVER stand upright on a lineal machine, it’s never the way to use it; trial the machine using a deep (just above sitting) squat. Sometimes salespeople have no idea how to use the machine and demonstrate them badly – hence my warning.  You can stand upright safely on a pivotal machine set at a lower speed but with back and neck pain I suggest you have soft knees (bent a little).

I have worked through various pains and muscle imbalances using a high energy lineal machine and I prefer that type BUT with both back and neck pain you might like pivotal – I suggest HyperVibe which can be used for therapy through to full workout.  It takes some time to learn how to set the speeds for different body parts. You can check out the recommended Safety Programs here:

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-31 10:34:46
The isolator issue is only relevant to commercial lineal units really. So no need to worry for you anyway. 
Jillie Posted On:2012-03-31 04:12:13

Di Heap, Thank you for the response. I live in the U.S., WA State. I am not overweight, though I am prone to back and neck pain. My aim with a "starter" model is to improve blood flow, bone density, etc., waking up and working my muscles a bit, ideally providing ACTIVE therapy perhaps verging on MILD training. One article on this site mentions the degradation rates of "isolators" in some units, though I couldn not tell whether all machines use isolators or whether they are unique to lineal machines. I got a little spooked, and now I am afraid that with daily use at moderate levels, the inferior internal materials of a therapeutic model will start falling apart in a year or so. Please tell me I am neurotic.

John Posted On:2012-03-30 02:56:56

A real student has an intellectual curiosity that results in continual learning.  A fake student is a "know it all" who has no desire to learn anything new.

John T. Weatherly

P.S.  I agree that people that will not even post their names should not be given any credibility on forums like this.

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-29 13:15:17
We have highly qualified people through our studio each day in the medical field. All whom agree that what we do is a new field of science.
These people know the txts books are always changing. Which is why they came to educate themselves through experience. And if you asked authors of the txtx books, they will also confirm things are always changing. The books are always behind the times.  It is an idea appreciated by real experts.
It is a shame it is lost on some of the "students" of science.    
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-29 12:58:13
For a start, if you have something important to state, put your real full name up. Or it will be taken you are not committed enough to your own idea to stand by it. 
In bio-101. Really ???
It also teaches you myogenesis does not happen in the heart or brain tissue. But they got it wrong. Because now they know it is possible in most cells at any age.
You do know that everything you learnt in bio-101 was once scoffed at by "experts". Just like Vibration Training was scoffed at by "the experts" .
You can thank people like me for not believing everything they are told blindly. In fact you can thank people like me for EVERYTHING you have, even your life.
Note: We have managed to build new muscle in people with Myotonic muscular dystrophy. Something thought actually impossible a few years ago.
funny this website gives "advice" Posted On:2012-03-29 12:36:31

this information is wrong... you cannot regenerate muscle fiber...  aka muscle cell.  in fact it is why after age 30, sarcopenia sets in and you can slow it by exercise but you cannot stop it entirely.  Bulky muscles are merely an increase in muscle SIZE  ... the fiber itself, not an actual regeneration of muscle cells.  they do NOT replicate as this person states... who actually called others "ignorant".  In fact the lack of skeletal mucscle regeneration ability is a well known fact taught in bio 101.

abcde Posted On:2012-03-28 22:37:23

You think 4477 posts will be missed.

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-28 20:25:39
Time to effect more change peoples.....
Dear Dealfind,
                   by now you will be aware of a multiple comments Consumer Truth Bomb on the latest DZT sale.
Because you are continuing to facilitate DZT in selling Vibration Training machines with fake specifications, ( after you were made aware of this issue in the last sale as per all the deleted posts on the subject) . I am taking the campaign up a notch. 
Over the next few weeks. Random comments demanding Dealfind refund all Dealfind customers who have been scammed over the last few deals with DZT will be posted. On multiple sales ( not related to DZT )
Please note:  The subject is serious because people with various health issues, such as weight loss and certain disabilities, including the elderly, have been effected.
I will contact you after the Consumer Truth Bomb has finished and see what effect it has had on your ethics / bottom line / reputation . I will also be sending emails to all the "news" sources you claim have mentioned you,  outlining our plan, hoping at least one picks up on the story. 
It is the first time a consumer advocate group had done this, so it will be interesting to see what outcome we can effect. Wish us luck.  
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-03-28 17:50:41


Read this article:


Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-03-28 17:46:13

Jillie, it depends on what results you want and a few other factors.  Crazyfit is on the BlackList because they attach fake specs to the machines (be careful – there are many brands of identical machine and all are apparently the new model).  They also claim results that simply cannot happen using that machine – muscle build etc. The adverts and infomercials show people with amazing bodies and say you can look like that too. 

Crazyfit  machines don’t work well if a persons weighs  over 60kg (130lbs) – they can’t cope with even regular weight.

They do have some  use. They are quite gentle. They increase blood circulation and can help with improving bone density. They help with relaxation, reducing stress. They might even help you sleep better.  They might help decrease aches and pains by activating muscle and joint mobility.

I hope this helps you decide if it will work for you until you get a better machine.  If you tell us where in the world you are, we can guide you further.

Jillie Posted On:2012-03-28 17:09:21

I am planning to save up for a high quality lineal machine for training, but in the meantime, I would like to get a less expensive pivotal machine for therapeutic purposes. The chiropractic office I visit uses a CrazyFit, but as it is on your Blacklist, I hesitate to purchase one. Is there a brand of therapeutic use pivotal machine that you can in good conscience recommend

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-03-28 16:35:04

DZT V7000 machines are being sold on Victoria, Canada.  The machines have fake specs!

There’s a questions forum on the DealFind page for the the DZT V7000 deal. It’s been spammed (by... guess who) – good job!

It’s really important to warn people and to stop companies selling products with fake specs to the very people who most need the machines – especially Obese, Disabled, Stay at home Older folk and mothers who do no other exercise.

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-27 22:16:53
Brent...  Two things..
(a) I would want to know why the knee is building up fluid first before doing anything like Vibration Training
(b).  You would need a machine with side handle bars for safety. 
I would be very wary of using the wrong machine with the wrong program.
  Where are you located ?
brent Posted On:2012-03-27 16:02:33

i have full knee replacement it was done 5 years ago and i still get swelling on the knee will vibration training help me

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