Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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Gary Posted On:2012-05-01 04:34:10

Hi just a quick question, we use vibrostation machines in our studio using the safety program for lineal machines. We had a client who had a free trial which seemed okay at the time, we checked her medical conditions to which she had previously signed and there were no contra indication .  Now 3 months later she has wrote to us saying she has been suffering from benign paroxysmal positional vertigo which her consultant said was probably caused by the vibration plate being too violent. She has also now revealed that she had laser eye surgery the previous year which she did not put on her medical questioner. She has asked for an out of court settlement or she is going to instruct her solicitor to start formal proceedings against us .Do you believe the machinens could have caused this ........

Thanking you inadvance .   Gary 

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-29 16:13:05
An article on the problems with some research and academic bias....    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/12/13/101213fa_fact_lehrer
 
I think our industries researchers will be proven in time to not just be biased ( for or against ) , but actually deliberately negligent to the point of fraud.
 
It is not just the "positive effects conclusions" they jumped to, but the people they could of helped if they had been honest about their own intellectual limitations. 
 
 
Pretend experts do hurt people in the long run.   
 
      
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-25 23:54:06
David...
 
" I did tried vibrogym before and I didn't feel it was very strong for training" ........ It must have been a home machine. The Pro unit is very strong.  In fact nothing else really for retail that is any stronger.  Similar yes, like the vibratrimmer. But not stronger.
 
A two motors system is usually better.    
 
Using either a Pivotal or a Lineal would help with Therapy issues. It just has to be used in the right way, or it can be quite a waste of time and money. 
 
Best bet is to stick to the basics you can do safely with your injuries.
 
 
David Posted On:2012-04-25 18:17:08

Does anyone have any experience with DKN xg10, it only has one motor, could that mean that machine with 2 motors like vibratrimmer is stronger-better, like I said I did tried vibrogym before and I didn't feel it was very strong for training, altough my primary interest is for now therapy (short, overused and torn muscles). What type of machinne would be more apropriate for that kind of problems, lineal or pivotal? Which one would be more beneficial to lets say greater blood flow, muscle relaxation-lengthening, breaking collagen or maybe even scar tissue. Hope I'm not asking too much different thing in one post.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-24 13:30:30
The other website actually deleted comments and recommendation about the machine/company David is asking about.  I was looking for something in my email, but unfortunately 99% of Q&A were done online. I do have most of it saved, but too much to go through. ( Note: You used to be able to search the forum for particular words as well which was a big help for everybody )
 
To give you an idea of the scale of the info deleted for greed's sake. 4477 posts. 3 years of consumer info.
 
All of it aimed at helping people such as yourself make good decisions.      
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-23 21:28:39
David...
 
More similar to a VibroGym in feel. Even though the new Power Plates are stronger than the older Chinese made models.
 
 
massamagra....
 
The site is ok but very limited in real time knowledge. Read this to understand.....  http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/engineering-reports-and-vibration-training-experts
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-23 20:34:13
For Everyone's Interest.......
 
Here is the answer to David's question on "the other site" 
 
 

Never heard of it. The platforms we support are listed. Outside of that, buyer beware.

The company and machine has been around longer than "expert" Gabriel Ettenson has been involved in Vibration Training. Just another of the 200 or so brands he is clueless about.(  About a dozen which are high quality units I would recommend. )

One of these sites is not like the other.  Buyer beware indeed.  

         

 
David Posted On:2012-04-23 20:00:56
sorry, somehow I missed your answer, and by rhe way thanks for quick response,  yes I asked the same question on other site because I want more opinions howewer they now nothing about it.
 
Anyway Im mostly interested in lineal vibration, I did try the vybrogym evolution and powerplate pro before, could you make a comparison with that machine, what do you think about the price-performance ratio.
 
I would also like to know what is your opinion on the italian site massamagra, they provide quite a lot info about diferent vibrating machines, howewer they are also sellers, so I am not sure about their honesty, and they mostly favorize pivotal machines like galileo.
 
David Posted On:2012-04-23 19:47:57

Hi, I posted my question yesterday, looks like it has been deleted, so I ask once again if someone could help me

does anyone have any experience with german machine vibratrimmer (sport model, I think). It weights 100 kg, has 2 motors( 250 watts) , and supposed to have both lineal and pivotal function and both low and high amplitude in lineal function (2mm and 4mm acording to the sellers site). Anyway I am asking because someone is selling it for half the price (arond 3000 EUR), I think he’s closing its studio. What would be your opinion? Could that be a quality macine?Thank you for your answer.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-23 15:49:38
David...
 
Be wary of any advice given on the other forum you asked the same question on. Some of the "experts" are no better than salespeople. Everything they say is tainted with a sale in mind.
 
Read my warning post down 12 comments.   
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-23 14:57:08
David...
 
No direct experience. But I did get a good report of their first machine ( the basic ) some years ago. Good solid design.  Not much to go wrong really.
 
Please note: They do not have a proper Pivotal / Lineal unit in the strictest sense ( a new model ) . By running the two motors in the same direction they reduce the upward force and transfer 50% from side to side instead. 
 
 
Mike M....
 
When 99% of the public can not do a position properly. Even with good instruction. It had to be taken off our program. But good luck if it helps your back.     
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-04-23 10:37:28

David

I will ask Lloyd Shaw to answer your question when he comes into the studio.

Looking at the vibratrimmer.de website (translated into English) the machine looks impressive and has good specs. The website gives lots of information including full contact details which is a good sign.

 

Mike M

We don’t use any form of lunge in our studio – IVTRB Safety Program.  The risks outweigh the benefits for most people as it’s a difficult position to get right, keeping the knees safe.
Also as you know we only use static poses.

For you– I can’t really comment as you have a different machine to our studios ones and you are responsible for your own correct positioning.

 
Mike M. Posted On:2012-04-23 05:14:17

Just lately I have been noticing a lot of benefit from doing dynamic lunges. I've tried them both on the lineal and also pivotal platforms, and also w/o vibration, and it's really helping my low back pain. I always hold on to something while doing them to keep from falling and lower the pressure a bit. The benefit is similar to what I found doing the lat exercise I described earlier (which has fixed my shoulder pain). If I'm right, I could have my low back pain free in a week or so for the first time in years.

 
David Posted On:2012-04-23 00:18:15

Hi,

does anyone have any experience with german  machine vibratrimmer (sport model, I think). It weights 100 kg, has 2 motors( 250 watts) , and supposed to have both lineal and pivotal function and both low and high amplitude in lineal function (2mm and 4mm acording to the sellers site). Anyway I am asking because someone is selling it for half the price (arond 3000 EUR), I think he's closing its studio. What would be your opinion? Could that be a quality macine? Thank you for your answer.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-18 14:09:41
Nancy...
 
Read this article to help you understand .....  http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/no-such-thing-as-a-bad-machine
 
But quite simply that particular company has not got an honest reputation.  So get a similar machine if you loved the effects, but from someone else.   
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-04-18 11:19:45

Check out the Machine Reviews here:  http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/machine-reviews

You will see that PowerStep falls into the category: Low Speed Pivotal

This type of machine is often sold with vastly exaggerated advertising promising results that will have you looking like a professional athlete in short time.  Also the machine specs are almost always false.  The website specs state the machine has a range up to 60Mhz – oh my !  They really mean 20-60Hz and even then they are dreaming –  that type of machine runs at about 12Hz – 12 times per second which is okay for the THERAPY results you got. They are trying to make it sound like a true exercise machine and it simply isn’t.  The studies they list on the website were not done on that category or type of machine.

The price is way too high for what you are getting in my opinion.  Look for a resale item on Amazon or locally. There are other brands very similar also but please try before you buy so you know how you respond to the particular brand or particular machine. Similar looking ones can feel quite different. If you buy a new machine check out the warranty carefully.

I’ve told you the bad points, now for the good. It can work well for circulation, gentle stimulation and, as you found, it can give pain relief.  Also it might help improve bone density after some time. Might help you sleep well by giving relaxation and reducing stress (along with pain).

You haven’t told us your age or health or weight.  Beware, this type of machine has lowered performance when the users weight is anything above average.

If the results you got from your trial are what you are wanting, the machine works for you. If you also want fitness and exercise results, I’d be looking at a different machine.

 
nancy Posted On:2012-04-18 08:54:37

I would like to know if you have ever heard of "power step".  I tried at a local home builders show. I know I know, have no idea why they set up there but I am glad they did.  tried their macine for  about 3 minutes and had fantastic results, i.e. pain relief, head pressure relief.  so I have been trying to research and learn what I can so now I am totally confused.  but did like the feel and results.  so any opinions wouldb e greatly appreciated.  it would be for my personal use as well as my husbands.  he also obtained good pain relief in his knees from this unit which for both of us lasted a number of hours.

thank you.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-15 22:09:45
At first it was not clear why. But later it transpired they were trying to sell the site. So obviously had to make it look like they owned the work.
 
Why they couldn't just write their own ?  It was dozens of articles and they were only pretending to be experts.  
 
star66 Posted On:2012-04-15 18:08:57

Why would they want to steal anything. Couldnt they just write their own stuff. Was it copy and paste or paraphrase.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-15 12:54:29
John....
 
They promote themselves as an " academic and evidence based forum ". 
 
I think they are about to find out that claim puts them right in it when it comes to plagiarism ( 3 years now and counting ) , along with a number of other issues. ( none of them based on opinion, but facts I will publish ).
 
 
 
Despite my personal requests, a number of individuals continue to voluntarily support, promote and use the site for their own glorification / purposes. Knowing full well what is has happened and is  happening.
 
My request to blacklist the site was sent via group email on 28/07/09 to 17 parties all previously involved in the site. All of which I will publish.
 
 
I think a common thread between those who have chosen to support the plagiarism and the other unethical behavior will be very apparent.
 
John Posted On:2012-04-15 10:59:24

Lloyd wrote many articles and has not been given credit on vibrationtraining.net.  Ted is listed as the author of articles Lloyd wrote.  This still has not been corrected.  Direct plagiarism.

John T. Weatherly

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-15 09:49:40
I would like to re-iterate why advice from vibrationtraining.net should be treated with caution.
 
This is what the admin of that site has been involved in or supported to date.
 
 
(1)  The cover up of warranty issues with both commercial and home machines due to personal commercial interests.
 
 
(2) Plagiarism . Both direct and indirect.  And supported over a number of years ( still continues to this day )
 
The deliberate changing of original authors names of articles into admins names, and the basic copying of articles while crediting themselves with "expert" status. ( look back through this websites older articles and look at the new vt.net articles you will see what I mean )
 
 
(3) The deletion of thousands of comments from consumers and real experts. These included comments from academics, Drs,  Physios and comments supporting dozens of brands. All involved in the industry years before admin of vt.net even knew what Vibration Training was.  
   
 
 
(4) The continued censorship of all comments.
 
 
The site was once a true consumer advocate site, Quite simply it is now only a sales pitch. 
 
In the future an article will give a blow by blow account, along with proof,  of the sites origins and its decline into what it represents today.    
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-13 20:51:43
Mike M..
 
The plank is only effective in vibration training if done certain ways ( on my programs ) . I really need to do a video on this one to show the sheer stupidity of companies teaching other versions.
 
Mike M. Posted On:2012-04-13 05:35:12


Do you guys think the side plank (plank but up on one elbow & turned sideways) is effective used with VT? Would you put your elbow or your feet up on the platform?

 
John Posted On:2012-04-13 03:47:30

I think this is so true Di.  For example, go to youtube and look at the videos of Nick Winkleman and Power Plate.  Nick works for Athletes Performance and they have been a corporate partner of Power Plate for many years now.  People see stuff like this and blindly copy it.  It is very sad so-called professional organizations like the NSCA give people like Winkleman credibility.  He is speaking on periodization protocols at their national conference this summer.  They have been in bed with Power Plate for years.  I called Mark Verstegen who is Chairman of Athletes Performance numerous times several years ago to ask about his relationship with Power Plate.  Mark would never answer.  And this is somebody I used to correspond with and even wrote a couple advertising articles with several years ago.  Mark even kicked me off his coreperformance.com site several years ago for just asking questions about Power Plate.

John T. Weatherly

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-04-12 00:33:22

 

The next article I write will be titled - Instructors need to be tough! - After three years of working as a vibration training instructor and sometimes studio manager, plus two years of part time work and with lots of learning and investigating this is perhaps the best advice I can give to people planning to be owners of Vibration Training studios and instructors working in studios or gyms that have machines. 

 

To be successful in this industry, to have customers who keep training because they are getting great results you need real machines, a real safety program (designed to work with the machines) and real tough instructors - wait for my article for more on this.

 

An example: In the past two weeks I’ve had 3 or 4 customers straight out lie to me. They tell me another instructor has given them a special position because they have some special needs or an injury. The instructor must then decide immediately if the customer has made up the position - and almost every time, they have. (that’s easy - it’s not part of the Safety Program for training or therapy).  Sometimes they’ve seen a pose on YouTube or another training place and instead of asking if it’s suitable for your machines they just go ahead and try to do it, disregarding the fact that they’ve never seen random poses done and only ever seen people following the Safety Program - shown in big posters on the walls. These people are asked to leave if they argue.

 

Or, the customer has twisted good advice given to them - Today a regular customer started to do a position that is not training or a therapy pose. I turned the machine off immediately and was then told they had been told by Lloyd Shaw to do exactly what they were doing. They even gave me a good reason, it was because of an injury. 

 

It was easy to guess what they had actually been told - to put some effort into the program, to hold the poses perfectly because the injury they had would be helped that way.  They construed - keep your heels down hard on the platform (in the squat position) to mean something very different and even argued to continue their error. Their imagined position was so far from anything in Therapy or Training -  I said it was wrong, unsafe, and that ONLY when Lloyd Shaw tells me, then they can do it - believe it or not they still said they were right. 

 

I’d made that sort of mistake a week ago, allowing a customer to use a different type of machine that he had no reason to use and then correcting him when he used it wrong - because he convinced me he had been told to use it. He’d lied and those who know Lloyd Shaw will realise how much trouble I was in when he found out. 

 

There was no chance of making that mistake again, today’s customer’s pose was completely random - and dangerous. And more than even a week ago, I’ve become tougher. 

 

I think the studio needs a new sign that reads - The Customer is Always Wrong! 

I’m thankful for the IVTRB Safety Program. That takes the guess work away so the instructor should get it right at least 99.9% of the time.

 
John Posted On:2012-04-10 00:17:53

Keep up the great work exposing these con artists.  It is quite sad they are so prevalent in the exercise field.  Like you have said, "Bad people prosper when good people do nothing."  It is up to us to clean up the vibration industry by exposing these scams.  Your are leading the way.

John T. Weatherly

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-08 18:21:44
But thanks to this weeks Viral marketers award, I found this lovely little gem from a Power Plate blogger...
 
 
 " it decreases the fattening hormone and increases fat burning hormones and voila i cant get above 6 percent body fat.  just look at the freaking testimonials.  What it really does is tune the harmonics of your cellular structure.  If you don't understand anything about vibration ,frequency or energy (quantum mechanics) it will not make sense.  That's why only smart old rich people tend to use it.  I've been doing athletic training for the last 8 years and I've been doing the power plate for 2 months and my physique improved faster than anything I've ever seen before.
 
 
There is so much wrong with it, I don't even know where to start. It would be funny as hell if he wasn't serious.  
 
 
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-08 17:46:24
J'aime
 
The only company I know of that would claim a non-existent FDA rating is Power Plate ( probably at a guess the $9000 machine you mention )  Which may be 9K, but that price is only for the idiots who do zero consumer research.  So your Dr is either a con artist, or an idiot.   
 
Finding your name and exact wording from your previous post on other sites, attached to the machine " 3G AVT Vibration machine". ( accompanied by BS marketing directly stolen from Power Plate ) . Kind of gives you away some.
 
 
 
Warning to readers...
 
Jane / Jaim'e  etc.... is a viral marketer for a brand of cheap plastic machines. A bunch of them are bombing the net now with fake " pleased consumer feedback reports" .
 
It is in fact a direct copy of a Power Plate, which in itself is a fake machine pushed by dishonest marketers.
 
So Jane is promoting a copy of a fake. With all the same 3D, do lunges on the machine BS.
 
 
 
A message to 3G AVT....
 
We will now make sure every post you put up on any forum has this warning behind it. You blew it.
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-07 19:16:10
J'aime
 
What brand of machine are you referring to ? 
 
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