Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-05 20:09:28
I am glad to report the IVTRB Pivotal Static Program has climbed almost straight to the top of most read side of this website.
For any Pivotal company willing to promote this. Please contact me so you can be in on future IVTRB promotions.
Please note: As long as you are not advertising fake specifications with your machines. You will be welcomed.  Your motives may be purely financial. But just like the IVTRB Lineal Static program. The ONLY thing that counts is the support and promotion of the program. 
To those who snubbed it because you were too "educated" . Great lack of vision guys.  
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-04 13:43:56
Added this year will be a list of "Top 10 Fake Consumer Advice" websites or "Reviews" . ( sales sites disguised as consumer advice sites )
These will include any site with a history of...
(1) Only recommending one companies product, while pretending to directly compare it against others ( usually much more expensive units ) .
(2) Only giving the machines it happens to sell top scores.
(3) Only allowing salespeople from certain brands to comment and answer questions from the consumer on its forum.
(4) Deleting  posts, questions or consumer advice that may divert a sale from it's support brand. 
Some are worse that others, as some are very obvious sales based sites. But others work very hard to appear unbiased and honest. But over a period of time the truth is always revealed.
Please note: A full explanation will be given on the reasons for my warnings on each site . So the reader can investigate my results themselves.  
I personally think this is a form of consumer fraud and a practice that needs to be exposed........  
Here is my list so far ( in no particular order ) . If there are other "consumer" websites you may be aware of. Please advise me so I can investigate.....
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-03-01 21:13:43

IVTRB Pivotal Static Safety Program

After many years of me trying desperately to get a company that sells Pivotal machines to promote a simple program like we use at the studios.
Here it is..........
For the time and fight it took for this to happen. You would have thought I was trying to hurt the Pivotal industry.   
My hope is that all Pivotal companies will start to get the idea that a poster full of random poses, that do not even differentiate between "Workout" and "Physio" . Only confuses people and leads to poor translation of Vibration Training and ambiguous results.
The IVTRB Lineal Static Program has done wonders for people using Lineal platforms.  Going against all the "experts" opinions I might add, and I predict this Static  Pivotal program will do the same. 
Happy, safe , training.
                               Lloyd Shaw         
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-29 16:18:19

                                        Important note about "The Blacklist".

This year we are taking it to an extensive list in alphabetical order of all and any companies involved in the issues listed.  It is going to be brutal, simple and to the point.

For all those who want this industry regulated in some way. This is your chance to be on the right side of the fence.

Realistically I think only a handful of companies will have the fortitude, vision and faith in what we are trying to accomplish to sign on. The only question is, are you one of those companies ?

Cut off for this offer is going to be 30 / 3 / 2012 after that it will be full steam ahead with only the companies that have signed up. No more free rides for anyone after that.

                                                                     In or out ?

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-29 15:27:26


The IVTRB ( ) is doing a massive drive this year to highlight two of  our industries major concerns.

 (a) Fake Specs............ 

              (b)  Unsafe . ineffective , dishonest weight control programs.

 All companies wishing to be involved and listed on this site as "recommended" for the consumer to interact with should contact me either via emal or this forum and be willing to do two things.

 (a )  Clearly state on your website you do not use fake specs to sell your product ( those exact words ).

 (b ) Be willing to promote our Lineal or Pivotal Safety program .( your own pictures and posters of course )


Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-27 18:47:42
Glad to see this dodgy company ruled against. ...

They should hopefully now be thrown out of chemists thy normally sell in.
Hate it when people get vibration therapy ( Physio ) mixed up with these TENS machines.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-27 06:58:21
For it to be taken seriously by skeptics, this practice needs to be stopped.....   "static and dynamic squats".
By adding Dynamic work into the program , they are showing not only a lack of understanding of the nature of Vibration Training, but also their lack of faith in it.
It is like they just cant get their head around the fact VT is NOT like gym work. It is the opposite.
All they really do is give the skeptics something to write it off as " well they did squats, that's what worked. Not the Vibration Platform "  
And ....  to their target audience, the obese....... "We cant get them to do their squats now, so how much chance do we have of getting them to do it on a machine "
Good, but not good enough.
John Posted On:2012-02-27 02:00:46

The study Lloyd mentioned below came out of Florida State University and is potentially huge for the vibration industry as it will no doubt be replicated by others.  Obesity is an epidemic.  Lloyd has mentioned obesity is one of the main reasons he became involved in the vibration industry. 

John T. Weatherly

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-25 17:18:52

Whole-body vibration training reduces arterial stiffness, blood pressure and sympathovagal balance in young overweight/obese women
Hypertension Research, 02/24/2012

Figueroa A et al. – Whole–body vibration (WBV) training may benefit arterial function and muscle strength in deconditioned individuals who cannot perform conventional exercise.

  • Obesity is associated with early cardiovascular dysfunction and reduced muscle strength.
  • Whole–body vibration (WBV) training may improve arterial function and muscle strength.
  • The effects of WBV training on arterial stiffness (brachial–ankle pulse wave velocity, baPWV), wave reflection (augmentation index, AIx), brachial systolic blood pressure (bSBP), aortic systolic blood pressure (aSBP), heart rate variability, and muscle strength (one–repetition maximum, 1RM) were examined in 10 young (21±2 year) overweight/obese women (body mass index, BMI=29.9±0.8kgm–2).
  • Participants were randomized to a 6–week WBV training or non–exercising control (CON) period in a crossover design.
  • WBV training (3 days × week) consisted of static and dynamic squats and calf raises with vibration intensity at 25–30Hz and 1–2mm amplitude (2.83–4.86G).
  • There were significant (P<0.05) decreases in baPWV (–0.9±0.3 ms–1), AIx (–8.0±2.2 %), bSBP (–5.3±1.5mmHg), aSBP (–5.2±2.1mmHg), low–frequency power (–0.13±0.05nu) and sympathovagal balance (LF/HF, –0.42±0.16) after WBV training compared with CON.
  • Significant (P<0.05) increases in high–frequency power (HF, 0.19±0.04nu) and leg extension 1RM (8.2±2.3kg) occurred after WBV training compared with CON.
  • Six weeks of WBV training decreased systemic arterial stiffness and aSBP via improvements in wave reflection and sympathovagal balance in young overweight/obese normotensive women.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-24 13:09:34
We have been seeing this for years on the street.......
Kind of strange considering basically every single exercise expert " re fake expert"  went public when we first released Vibration Training  saying it cant help athletes. 
I have a list of unambiguous statements next to the names of these clowns, that will be released once everything is beyond any doubt. I think it is important for every Vibration Trainer to know the fight we had to endure to get this technology out there. It will make them appreciate it even more.
And hopefully put a few load mouthed academics in their place at the same time.    
John Posted On:2012-02-23 17:06:01

Recent study out of Taiwan published in JSCR that showed improved running economy with WBV program - at least in the short-term.  I think the study was 8 weeks long.  Go to, click on PubMed, and type in "vibration training" as search words and the abstract should be there to read.

John T. Weatherly

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-23 11:36:04
Go to EBay ( look under vibration machines )  or another similar site. Get a Low Speed Pivotal  with handle bars. Should only cost you $500 including delivery . 
Do not buy it if it claims anything above 17hz.  As that kind of dishonesty will also mean the warranty probably wont be any good either.  
Writing on this forum....
Yes always copy and paste. The forum is set up to make it difficult for hackers to get into. Sorry about that. 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-02-23 08:25:13

Hi Lori

The easiest way to write on this forum is to use a Word program or your email program. Then copy and paste over into this forum.  The forum is designed to prevent lots of spam and advertising that similar sites get.

I’m not sure where you live but I’m guessing somewhere in Canada.  For therapy you can use less expensive machines but you really need to try before you buy (Some low quality machines make me feel quite “seasick”).  I’d recommend one with some sort of handlebars for support and stability for your body. 

You said you have arthritis and pins in your feet yet you hope to return to dancing (I hope you mean gentle movement, not bouncing) – to me this suggests a lineal/upright vibration machine would be a good choice and using the IVTRB Safety Program .  Or a low speed pivotal machine will help with blood circulation and mobility (a good start).

Have you read the articles on this website? Do you know the different types of machines especially the difference between lineal/upright and pivotal/see-saw motion?  I’ll say it again – Try Before You Buy.  For the price you want to pay I suggest you look for a re-sale machine.

Lori Posted On:2012-02-23 03:53:56

Blah, I wrote out a long comment and then asked for a new code as i could not see the first one properly, and it refreshed the page and I lost everything I wrote. I also noticed that punctuation marks do not come out in this comment box, like hyphens and apostrophes and parenthesis. I keep writing my way around using them, which makes my posts fairly long.

Anyway, thank you for asking the question on the Daily Deal site, but I could have told you they would delete that type of question. Previously, on this or another site that had a deal for an Android tablet, I commented that the company selling it was not reputable and linked to a site where many people had given it very bad reviews. They had either not received their purchases or it had come broken or the wrong one, etc. My comment was deleted there, too, and i was told in email that even if I had a bad experience with the company, which I hadnt, I was not allowed to post about it there. I ended up messaging anyone who had asked a question about the tablet, if they had posted from their FB acct. and linked them to the review site. I never heard back from anyone, no thank yous, so I guess people were more interested in saving money than getting a good product.

I am still very interested in one of these machines and so if you or anyone reading this has a recommendation for a model similarly priced, that they got good results from, primarily for therapy and anything else is a bonus, esp. energy boost, then please let me know. i can be messaged at my FB acct which is

Thanks, Lori

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-22 14:22:34
Well Lori...
They will not answer the question regarding honest specs. And instead get them deleted.
What does that tell you.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-21 19:31:55
I have just put up a question regarding the companies honesty ( under my real name ) . Because no matter how good the deal is, you do not want to buy a machine off a dishonest company.
Wait to see their reply. 
Lori Posted On:2012-02-21 14:42:25



First off, thank you so much for all the valuable info you provide, here. It is a little overwhelming but I have learned quite a lot in reading today. I would like to ask you if you think the offer, below, is a good deal price wise or if you would recommend something similar at a better cost or something totally different. Please note that I do not have a large amount to spend...probably 500 is my limit. 

Ideally, I would love to have a unit that could assist me in a fitness routine and toning, but my primary need right now is therapy. I am 52 and am in physical pain, literally all over my body 24 hours, 7 days a week. My doctor has said I have arthtirits "everywhere" but not what type. I feel absolutely worse with physical activity, which suggests osteo arthritis. I used to be a dancer, till almost 40 years old, and all the bouncing, often on very bad surfaces, caused me a lot of joint pain. As well, in 2007 I fell and broke my right ankle, the long bone under my right side of that foot and the bone on my left foot, under my little toe. I did not have surgery for 4 months, which entailed putting 2 pins in my right foot, and in total, before and after, I spent 7 months in a wheelchair as my bones would not heal at all. Since then, I have not had a day where my feet and ankles do not hurt when I walk and sometimes even sitting. My neck, shoulders, upper arms, hips and lower back are also in constant pain and I have insomnia from this, as well as from menopause. 

So, I would like to know if this unit will help or am I wasting my money and if it does help me feel better physically, that I could also use it for some poses like you show on your site. I love walking and dancing and would use those for cardio, if I can just get my body feeling well, again. Thanks so much for any help you can give me and I look forward to your reply. Here is the site with the deal and the question and answer page, where the company selling the unit has answered some questions. I would like to know how honest these answers are.


Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-20 15:18:35
You may want to know that TurboSonic claim that just by giggling the muscle at certain Fqs you can gain all the benefits of real Vibration Training.  ( this happens to different muscle groups naturally through a resonance factor, if you are lock legged ).  No stress poses needed.
They told sick people this. 
No words to describe how wrong that is.
Denun Posted On:2012-02-20 13:31:12

Thx Lloyd,

 i was sorry because i was afraid to be unpolite to ask of other brands, so thank you very much for your answer.

for sure i should learn english a little bit more  P


Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-20 12:54:04
The TurboSonic is really only a Physio unit due to its lack of power. The best bet you have to get results from such a unit is run at approx 38 -- 45 hz and stick to my program like glue.
Note: " There is not 'secret" magic Fq or amplitude. It is all marketing hyperbole. 
Special note: No one can ever privately own a Vibra-Train unit. So I was not going to try and sell you one. 
Denun Posted On:2012-02-19 22:39:35

Lloyd thanks for your site, i read every page and its really helpful.

Few weeks ago I bought one of those lineal machine, a used one honestly, thats called turbosonic ovation.

A thing that i really dont understand is that they published on turbosonicusa site a list of frequencies where the instruments registered the maximum amount of EMGRMS. Looking at that table seems that the best results are using frequencies between 8 to 11hz, what do you think about



Another thing is, do you think that if i follow your excercise on this machine, sorry i cant buy another one even if the vibratrain si better, can i get some results    and in case what frequencies and for how long do you think i have to held the pose

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-18 10:06:10
Being a newbee then it is VERY important you read this review section carefully and digest the info there. Then no matter what you buy. You will then be educated enough to make a better decision.
Eg  question .....  What category do you think the Vibrodisc falls into ?  
Then read this.....
So "some" results "may be" achieved from most units depending on how you use it. If all the pieces do not fit, you could waste your time and money.
Jo Posted On:2012-02-18 06:27:49

Hi, The vibration machines are new to me and i would like to be able to use one at home daily im my own time. I was thinking about buying a VIBRODISC. Are these any good are they affective for toning and to shift cellulite or am I throwing my money away. If they are no good, what is the est home machine not to expensive to buy, but still effective.

Many thanks Jo

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-17 16:15:03
This is a real example of what a marketer will do to your business if left to their own devices...
Exact wording proposed to Vibra-Train to run a daily deal advert.....
" Dinosaurs used to rule the planet, but those losers were taken out by what?
 A couple of cloudy days? Pfft! You could definitely take on a T-Rex or two,
 especially with the help of today's supercharged deal ........"
I got on the phone and completely lambasted the idiot who signed this off. With a comment something along the lines of " a 5 year old could have come up with something better, and whoever came up with this trollop  should go back to watching Jersey Shore. Because that's about the limit to their IQ."
They admitted not even knowing what we did, or even spending 2 mins reading our website first.
Seriously, seriously LAZY.  And the kind of practice that has helped make our industry into a joke in some parts of the world. 
Note: It took them 10 mins to come back with something far more suitable.    
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-16 19:28:08
Vibration Training explanation for Personal Trainers ....
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-16 19:02:36
I have been offered second hand ones already. 
No I would not be tempted.
Such a pity what HyperGravity did to their reputation. A fall from grace no-one could have predicted.   
Mike M. Posted On:2012-02-16 13:03:33

So if you saw a used but working HyperGravity on the market, you wouldn't be tempted?

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-14 21:51:05
Mike M...
US based replicas of the European design. HyperGravity tried. And they broke ( apart from other issues a bit too complex for this forum )  .
Wish I could say otherwise.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-14 21:47:09
Mike M...
Yes that is correct.
The steel box design has very particular physics attached to it. Even Vibro-Gyms new Evolution does not manage to replicate the energy reading on the older VibroGym Pro. ( And trust me they tried very hard )
That is why TrueVibe copied the design almost exactly for their "new" machine.
I think Wave is a good choice if ALL the factors on a purchase are considered.       
Mike M. Posted On:2012-02-14 18:18:59

So what you are saying is that none of the machines available in the US compare to those listed which are pretty much just European models not available (at least not at reasonable cost) in the US? None of the Waves even the high end Pro Elite compares to the Body Shaker or Vibrogym? The Contour Plus is also stainless steel - not sure about the web stiffening? It does have a thin rubber mat built in that I imagine damps the vibrations a bit. Should I remove the mat?
(I've been following the IVTRB program strictly since I'd guess October or early November. Ever since I sent you the video, Di. I've just cut back while trying to handle the TP problem. And I'm now using the blue mat also to try to prevent a repeat.)

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