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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-22 18:01:23
The harder up comment being a joke of course.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-22 16:38:04
Technically speaking a One / Third range of motion is ok.
Note: The reason we teach static is because people always over exaggerate this and go way too high or too low.  Read the first part of this...
Or you could just harden up       
Mike M. Posted On:2011-10-22 12:47:31

I had a question. I am just now getting to be strong enough to do the upper body exercises for the full minute. By that I mean the full push-up, the full plank etc. The only problem is, my muscles seem to cramp up if I try to hold a completely static pose. To counter that, I am doing a slightly dynamic motion, i.e., about an inch up and down range of motion while doing it to prevent the cramping. As I get stronger, I expect to be more able hold a static pose.

So, is it ok to do that slight range of motion for a while, while I wait to be able to be static? Or should I go back to a lesser pose or less time but be static? Is there any harm to the slight motion I'm doing?

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-19 17:57:59
Di Heaps advice is spot on.
Important note: Do not let him even attempts a squat without load bearing handle bars to the side of him. Holding it exactly like in the video.
I would advise only sitting in front of it for a good month at least.   
Keith Posted On:2011-10-19 16:29:29

Hi Di. Thanks for the info will try and get him to believe in vibration therapy. Still have a thankfully working HG.

Lloyd, at some stage you mentioned you would be giving some more info on making up the rubber mat, dont know if Imissed that. How thick the rubber and what sort of density. Just using the foam mat at the moment. Thanks.

Rugby........ hmmmm yes we did pay a heavy Bryce....... but here in SA, I never thought we would see the day, you have 50 million people rooting for you. Had a few friends around to watch you guys play the Aussies, even my friend in kneed, and cheered wildy for every point you scored. Loved the who me expression on Pococks face when he got called up for hands in the ruck a few times, totally neutralised him. We will all be watching on Sunday having a rugby breakfast and rooting for you. Go All Blacks.

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-19 08:43:17


Take a look at this. Vibration Therapy for people with limited mobility

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-19 08:06:30

Hey Keith

I was expecting you to comment on the Rugby World Cup. Interesting finals coming up this weekend.

Lloyd will no doubt comment but just to say hello – I would start your friend sitting in front of the machine like you’ve suggested, Low amplitude, 45-50Hz, short times at first, say 3 minutes and working up to 9 minutes.  His posture, even sitting, must be correct. Feet at 110 degree angle onto front edge of machine, using a rubber mat maybe to prevent slipping. This improves circulation and helps remove fluid from the legs.  Articular cartilage is unlikely to rebuild well but vibration therapy is a good try. His injections of Suplasysn will probably be repeated weekly for a few weeks and he must not do any weight bearing exercise (including vibration therapy and golf) for 48 hours after injection.

But, If he’s walking around the golf course okay then he can do some deep, flatfooted (flat shoes or just socks using your rubber mat on the platform) squats on the machine.  Feet hip width apart (hip bones not the outside), feet perfectly straight, not ever pointed outward!  Lower to just above sitting using the handlebars for support and stay there for 30-60 seconds.  Watch him and make him adjust down every 10-15 seconds as its usual to move upwards but the deep squat needs to be maintained as much as he can squat with knee injury or swelling.

 Just one minute then working up to 9 minutes but take that very slowly over weeks or months.  If I’m underestimating his abilities – he’s playing golf and walking miles? Then he can get into it faster.  Be aware; muscles get strong faster than cartilage and bone. He risks tearing any newly formed (lower grade) cartilage by twisting, side stepping or even walking too far – I know from experience.

I’m thinking you have a Vibrogym machine, yes?  Or you could both take an extended visit to the land of Rugby mania where we have machines with side vibrating handlebars so he’d be totally supported in the squat. He’d need about 2 months of therapy – a perfect excuse for a long holiday.

Keith Posted On:2011-10-19 05:03:28

Hi Lloyd, I do have friends who are healthy but can I let this one anywhere near my machine. When his knee was badly swollen and not responding to rest and treatment I offered to let him sit in front of my machine with his feet on the platform for a massage. but he wanted to follow the Drs advice to the letter. I did say I would ask your advice first. Now that he is more or less alright is there anything he can do on the machine.

The patient had arthroscopies done to both knees 5 months ago. The left knee has a badly torn meniscus and this was the first arthroscopy on that knee. The right knee had two previous arthroscopies during the past 6 years and the purpose of the third arthroscopy was to clean up the joint.The left knee was swollen for 4 months after surgery. A celestone injection into the left knee 2 months after surgery did little to reduce the swelling. This was followed by an injection of deca durabolin into the bum 3 months after surgery and this appeared to have little effect on reducing the swelling or hastening the healing process. Recently the left knee was injected with a suplasysn injection and this appears to have been successful in reducing most of the swelling and allowing the patient to play golf again with no significant after effects.

The patent will have to have orthotics made up to reduce further wear on both knees owing to the fact that he has grade 3 articular cartilage loss in the medial femoral condyle of both knees – the lateral compartments are healthy.

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-19 00:05:03
They look like the standard Chinese versions sold on Alibaba    from this company... 
My advice is to ask where exactly the German parts are made.  And verify if they are telling the truth. All German companies have good websites promoting their work.  
Willie Nugent. Posted On:2011-10-18 23:39:51

Hi Lloyd,

                I am trying to find out a bit more about a pivotal unit being offered in the UK by Vibrostation, the link is

I spoke with them and they said it is all German made components but assembled in China.It sells for app. 5.5k Sterling which is a lot of money for a Chinese built machine.



Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-18 15:08:47
Kathy T..
Also read this. There is no such thing as a bad or dangerous vibration training / therapy machine. It all depends on how it is used or promoted.
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-18 14:01:51
Kathy T..
Yes Kathy firstly we need to know what type of machine you are using. Please use this as a guide to tell us which type ....
Then we need to know how you were using it. What positions etc... 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-18 00:46:33

Kathy T

I’m wondering why you “hired a machine to test for bad reactions”?

What were you expecting?

Do you have a medical or physical condition that required special advice about using the machine?

Did you follow a recommended Safety Program?  Who advised you on how to use it?

Please tell me you were NOT standing straight upright on the machine at full power for 10 minutes.

Please tell us what machine or type of machine you were using and what position you were in when you felt the discomfort

And , you did stop right away when you felt very uncomfortable, yes? 

Kathy T Posted On:2011-10-17 22:39:24

I hired a virbration machine to test for bad reactions.  After using the machine constantly for 3 weeks I did indeed find my body fitness improved. However, during the 4th week I tried the machine on full power for 10 minutes.  My head started to vibrat inside and didnt stop for 3 weeks, it was a weird sensation and I was decidedly worried. I havent used one since but I would like to. Anyone any thoughts about why this occured and is it danerous.

Kathy T. 

Mike M. Posted On:2011-10-17 03:40:05


Sorry the machine did not reset for you. Had hopes for that. I don't think it would be too difficult to work on, but any repairman has to be given the replacement parts, which no one is likely to have outside of Wave. Right now I imagine it's a guessing game as to which part(s) have failed. One thing about a machine that vibrates heavily, is that electrical connectors have to be made to be shock proof or they will fail, it's just a question of when. Were I working on it the first thing I would try would be to reinsert all connectors to see what that did.

As for the progress that you made, I imagine that if you built some real muscle in the brief time you had it working, it will come back fairly quickly once you go back to it.

I just recently started a routine where I am walking most days carrying a weighted vest on my shoulders. Just something I though to try to amp up my current walking program, which I had upped to 5 miles recently. Finding it hard to find energy to do both that and VT on the same days.

Patty Posted On:2011-10-16 16:40:47

Mike M

Sorry for not posting what has been going on with my broken machine, but I have been working some long hours with no time to get on this site until tonight.  I called Wave customer service on Monday...had to leave a message..perhaps they were celebrating Columbus day.  They did not call me back on Tuesday, so I called again on Wednesday.  I talked to gent named Sandy French.  He said it is unlikely that both motors are failing, so he thinks it is the drive unit.  The closest repair person he has in in Texas.  So he said he would have to do some research to find someone in Nashville to do the repairs.  Not very comforting....perhaps they are selling in areas they should not be they are not ready to respond to warranty issues.  He said they would also replace the touch screen.  I have not heard back from him they will be geting another call from me on Monday.  I hate to be a pest, but I have a 4500 piece of equipment that has only been used about 20 times and has already failed.  I got to thinking about how the machine had been acting before it failed..and realized that for the last week, it had quit jumping across the floor when it started vibrating.  Probably my imagination...but I did not think it was vibrating as strongly, even though I had it set at the same levels. 

I guess by the time my macnine is fixed, I will be back at ground zero.  I am back to the tread mill and our paramount weight system.  My husband wanted to sell the paramount equipment but thankfully I told him I wanted to keep it.  I just can not do the bench presses because of an issue with my left hand.  I think I pinched a nerve months ago when bench those are out. 

Hopefully I will have better news regarding my Wave in a few days.   I remain disappointed in Tennessee.

Mike M. Posted On:2011-10-16 04:54:43

I can agree with that. The 3 things electronics don't like are liquid, heat, and vibration. Or any combination thereof.

I know the display used in my unit is a replacement design. Hope whatever issue the old one had is taken care of. NASA has been able to deal with the vibration issue, but I don't know if China-made electronics is up to their spec.

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-15 11:23:28
From an electronics perspective. My issue with touchpad's becoming normalized in the industry to soon was how vibrations effect electronics over a period of time.
Touch-screens are not my forte, but I know from working on helicopters that things do not always react how you want them to once you throw vibration into the mix.
Mike M. Posted On:2011-10-15 05:30:39

Di and Lloyd

I really appreciate all the advice and the critiquing of my form you have done. It should prove helpful. It is surely a different thing though, getting coached by people who are over 15,000 miles away (per flightopedia). Never happened to me before.

I realize that it is likely not recommended to lift the toes, but I wanted to make it clear my weight was not forward that time. I won't normally do that.

I do not myself have any problem with a touch screen, as long as it works like you expect. I have been around computers for 30 years though, I have seen just about every way hardware and software can interact, both good and bad. I even remember keyboard bounce, anyone else ever see it? Kind of reminds me of the touchy touchpad somewhat. It doesn't confuse me but some of the neighborhood kids who mess with my Wave can't figure out what's going on with it. Just takes a light quick touch.


I am getting a little concerned, has your problem been addressed?

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-14 16:21:43

Mike M

I did see that your toes were lifted. They are part of your overall balance so should be down flat. 70% pressure on heels 30% on toes.

Follow the full IVTRB program 3-4x week for 3 weeks (every second day) – you’ve got nothing to lose and everything to gain from following a complete program rather than a bit from here and a bit from there – then write up your results. The rebalancing effect of correctly holding the positions will help strengthen your right leg.

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-14 16:01:38
Mike M...
We prefer a squat to be either a perfect squat ( toes forward )  or a wide stance stance squat ( toes outward ) . Doing a hybrid of both often leads to knees coming in etc....  and general gravitation away from good form.
Mike M. Posted On:2011-10-14 13:21:08


I read different things on different websites, with the result being confusion - for instance you emphasize pointing the toes forward, but on another site where they discuss squats they say turning the toes forward means more emphasis on the vastus lateralis and pointing them outward emphasizes the vastus medialis.

I guess I can maybe alternate the toe positions and thus hit all parts more or less equally? Or, maybe I need to turn my right foot more outward for the therapeutic benefit? That's kind of what I've been trying sometimes. What you may have been seeing regarding my knees was, I corrected my foot position fairly early to straight ahead. I did have them a bit outwards prior to that. And if you look, I kept my toes lifted off the surface pretty much throughout to keep weight off the toes.

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-14 11:11:46

Mike M

Thanks for the small videos.  The super squat is good.   I can see you correcting back down into the 110 degree squat (I get people to count to 15 then drop down a little, repeat etc). 

Hard to tell if your knees were held inline with your hips and toes; looked like they drifted in a little as you fatigued. Good control overall – the squat is your king exercise – gets the results. 

I’m happy to help anyone with their positions.  Sending a small file video is a good way to do this. Beginning in and remaining in Perfect Position means safe training and great results.



Any news ?

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-12 22:05:39
I actually have no idea why any vibration training company uses touch screens. I have advised plenty to stay with analogue systems and keep it simple, but to no avail. I suppose it is just the way everything is built nowadays.
I was an electronics mechanic in the Navy ( WEM ) And I favor systems that can be mixed and matched rather than solid state. 
Chances are its just a cutout switch that has tripped for some reason.        
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-12 12:42:04


I’m sorry, I do recognise that email address – I even opened it but didn’t realise so it was deleted .  Could you please send it again. I’ll look out for it.

Mike M. Posted On:2011-10-12 12:08:06


Really? That's odd; that's the email address I sent it to. My email I used was Maybe it wound up in the spam folder? The video is really small; I made it with my webcam on my netbook and then put it through a program that makes it fit a format suitable for youtube, so it's real low quality but you might be able to tell something.

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-10-12 10:31:50

Mike M

I haven’t received your little video and would really like to look at it.  Email address - Mine is my name, di at vibeplus dot com I don’t have a Vibra-Train email address. (Lloyd might have the video)

Just so people know - I know the various names and trading names get confusing. I have my own trademark, VibePlus which I use for education purposes mostly at present.  I work for Vibra-Train’s  Auckland City Studio/Head Office and Development Centre which keeps me so busy I rarely do any private personal training work. 

I’ve been a little absent from here the past week. We have a promotion to encourage new people to try vibration training and it’s hugely successful with many “types” of people coming in. This morning I was working (second time) with a man who does MMA but has knee operations and other aches.  The challenge of using both, Vibration Therapy (assisted training) and regular poses with this very strong man is both exhausting and exhilarating for us both. 

The screen touch and display problems on your machine are not good.  I’ve really come to appreciate the separate control unit of the Vibra-Train. If anything does go wrong – rarely dust or sand in the fan which causes the sensitive thermal cutout to activate – its as simple as attaching another control box until the problem can be looked at. This is so important in a busy studio. 

After spending so much money on a quality home machine I hope Wave do have a reset button or a fast despatched new unit for Patty and that your machine gives no real problems.  Come visit us in NZ and you’ll be tempted to take a machine back with you (alas, we don’t sell home machines).

Mike M. Posted On:2011-10-12 00:14:00


Sorry you're having a problem. I haven't had many problems (yet). I notice the screen is a little "touchy" in that sometimes it seems to register multiple touches when I just want one. In other words, I can hit Start and sometimes it will cycle through Start Stop Start a few times. I sorta wonder if the QC up there is all that sometimes.

I haven't had much other trouble, just a few oddities. Yesterday I was on it and noticed it had "walked" a bit so that it had rotated a bit clockwise on my carpet. Without thinking I kind of hopped and gave it a twist rotating it back counter clockwise. Wrong move; it stopped running. I hit the screen trying to get it started but no luck. I had to restart it. I wonder if there's some kind of safety switch in there? Have you tried unplugging it and restarting? Sometimes a computer can get "confused" but that will fix it.

That, and it's not all that clear to me (like it is to you) when the air is pumped into my machine. Sometimes it just seems to pump air when no one is using it like maybe it stays pumped up all the time. Did yours? I'm not sure if that's a good or bad idea, if that's what's going on. I usually just leave mine powered up all the time, like I do my computers. I wonder what's recommended by Wave regarding leaving it on or powering it off. Sometimes it seems hard to get info out of them, or much else. Rochelle told me she was sending a new blue pad, but I still don't have it. I think there's been enough time.

I sent Di a little video of me so she can check my form. Did you get it, Di?

Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-10-11 22:00:57

Keep us posted. I hope they get it sorted quickly for everyone's sake.

Patty Posted On:2011-10-11 15:25:09

Mike M

My traveling finally slowed down, allowing me to stay on track for the last three weeks …vibration training the recommended three times per week. My training came to a halt yesterday. I turned on my Wave, it went through the motions of pumping air to ready for my workout. I set the delay to 10 seconds, hit the start, and set my pose when I heard the warning beep….then NOTHING…the vibration never started. I couldn’t believe it wasn’t working….so I set it to go again…and again NOTHING. NO vibrating plate. I decided to turn my Wave off and start over…but that proved to be futile. The motor would not come on to vibrate the plate. I called Wave today, got the voice mail, left a message, but have not heard back from them yet. Perhaps they were closed for the holiday today. I guess we will see how well they stand behind their warranty. Hubby and I are very disappointed. To think that I have only used the machine maybe 20 times…we can’t imagine why the motor would go out. I am hoping that they will tell me there is some little hidden reset switch that needs to be hit.

I have also had trouble with the LCD screen…it is taking a lot of hard pushing on the screen to get it to respond to change the time or the hz. It is also difficult to get it to accept the “finish” command. Are you experiencing any problems with your screen?

If anyone out there owns a Wave and has had similar problems, please let me know if there is an easy fix. I hate to lose the momentum of my workouts again…as I don’t know how long it will take Wave to fix my machine. Disappointed in Tennessee!

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