Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-08 18:21:44
But thanks to this weeks Viral marketers award, I found this lovely little gem from a Power Plate blogger...
 " it decreases the fattening hormone and increases fat burning hormones and voila i cant get above 6 percent body fat.  just look at the freaking testimonials.  What it really does is tune the harmonics of your cellular structure.  If you don't understand anything about vibration ,frequency or energy (quantum mechanics) it will not make sense.  That's why only smart old rich people tend to use it.  I've been doing athletic training for the last 8 years and I've been doing the power plate for 2 months and my physique improved faster than anything I've ever seen before.
There is so much wrong with it, I don't even know where to start. It would be funny as hell if he wasn't serious.  
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-08 17:46:24
The only company I know of that would claim a non-existent FDA rating is Power Plate ( probably at a guess the $9000 machine you mention )  Which may be 9K, but that price is only for the idiots who do zero consumer research.  So your Dr is either a con artist, or an idiot.   
Finding your name and exact wording from your previous post on other sites, attached to the machine " 3G AVT Vibration machine". ( accompanied by BS marketing directly stolen from Power Plate ) . Kind of gives you away some.
Warning to readers...
Jane / Jaim'e  etc.... is a viral marketer for a brand of cheap plastic machines. A bunch of them are bombing the net now with fake " pleased consumer feedback reports" .
It is in fact a direct copy of a Power Plate, which in itself is a fake machine pushed by dishonest marketers.
So Jane is promoting a copy of a fake. With all the same 3D, do lunges on the machine BS.
A message to 3G AVT....
We will now make sure every post you put up on any forum has this warning behind it. You blew it.
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-07 19:16:10
What brand of machine are you referring to ? 
J'aime Posted On:2012-04-07 11:39:51


I had heard about these vibration machines about a year ago from my chiropractor for building bone density and started doing my research on vibration machine reviews online. While it does seem like there are so many cheap knock offs out there I was looking at the brand that has a medical device number from the FDA, which means they have proven it does what they say it does, it’s the one my chiropractor uses but it is very expensive (over $9,000!) and I don’t a full blown commercial machine for my house. The more research I did I found that the type of movement is very important; moving in 3 fields, up and down, side to side, and back and forth is what all the positive research pointed to. The frequency range it can go to will make a difference, mine goes up to 50hz! The machines weight is also important especially for balance and strength use, you don’t want it to tip over when leaning back into a deep squat or stretch. I tried out a few different models and brands at my local fitness store which really helped me see the difference in quality. The inexpensive ones were not even close to the sturdiness and quality I was feeling using the one at the Dr.’s office. I found a great machine I am really happy with and after 6 month of using it 4 days a week I am happy to report I am no longer in osteopenia (pre-osteoporosis) and have actually had an measurable increase in bone density! I am buying a vibration machine for my mom now because she has osteoporosis and has been on medicine for a few years now with no benefit (and a bunch of scary side effects). I’ll keep you posted but I could not be more thrilled with the machine I bought, well worth it! 

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-05 20:26:47
Any variation in your program is good. Either time or Fq.
Make sure you do not over-train. Very easy to automatically think more is better.  You have to see how your body actually reacts to VT.
Hard to tell if your machine is acting up or not, as those units adjust themselves all the time.
Mike M...
I think with any machine type, it is important to consider a few things..
(a) How long that exact unit has been around.
(b) What kind of results have people similar to your age, sex, weight etc...  obtained so far with that unit. And how long did they take to achieve those results.
My next article on my experiences to date will show the learning curve I have been through. You may find it interesting.
Mike M. Posted On:2012-04-05 14:18:09

Patty, good to hear from you again. Sorry the Wave still has problems. What are they this time?

YOu might get some idea whether the machine is close to spec by getting a digital tachometer (they sell on ebay for around $10 or so). They come with some reflective tape and use a laser to measure the rpm. Of course you must do some minor math to convert that to Hz. But that can give you an idea of the frequency. I got one and the frequency seems pretty close on mine.

I tried the (very crude) pencil method to try to measure amplitude but even high seemed to only be around 1mm. I asked if I ought to remove that rubber pad that is built in but nobody seems to know.

I have not been real happy with how my body has reacted to VT on a lineal since I got the Wave. But it is more a matter of my health issues than the machine. The machine seems to work fine as far as it goes. I'm left wondering if I might have had better results if I'd gotten a pivotal like the Hypervibe. Lately I do not do much VT.

Patty Posted On:2012-04-03 15:36:23

I finally seem to have my dad’s health stabilized, allowing me to concentrate on my vibration training again. As a reminder, I have the Wave Air Reflex. I have been training consistently for the past 6 weeks - three times per week. I have the machine set at 37 hz and high intensity. I can do the full two minutes on most poses (the push up gives me the most trouble, and sometimes I fatigue at one minute 30 seconds). My question - is it best to continue to increase the hz at 1 hz increments - or should I just move up to the ideal 40 hz. If I do this, should I drop back go two 1 minute poses with the 30 second delay in between poses? Low intensity does nothing for me, so I plan to keep it at high with any change to the hz. I use the treadmill at least 4 times per week, and the biggest thing I have noticed is that my knees do not bother me at all since I have combined the vibration training with the pounding I get on the tread mill.

As a side note, I still have issues with my Wave - but fortunately it is still usable. Wave customer service has not been very responsive, so I will be writing a letter this week. I really wish there was a way to test the machine, as I don’t have any confidence that is operating correctly at all. If you have any recommendations as to how it could be tested, please let me know. I’ve asked them to have someone knowledgeable check out the machine, fix the issues, and also extend my warranty or provide me with a new machine. My rep told me he would have to talk to the owner and get back with me…it will be three weeks tomorrow…not very fast response…perhaps the owner is on a long vacation!

Thanks for all the info you post here...I have been enjoying catching up on all the posts and reading the articles again.

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-02 15:43:26
Give you 3 guesses which sections apply to DZT
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-04-02 10:48:38

Fake Specs means the machine does not perform to the specifications stated or advertised.

It’s like buying a racing car that says it runs perfectly from 1 – 100 miles per hour but you take it out on the highway and its true maximum speed is 60 miles per hour

The car is useful for around town, not for racing.

Diane Posted On:2012-04-02 06:09:11

DZT V7000 machines are being sold on Victoria, Canada and every where else in Canada.  The machines have fake specs! What do you mean by fake specs

Can you not get some rehabilitation on that machine

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-03-31 17:03:56


A low speed pivotal machine can be a starter  – for therapy. It isn’t going to be effective for training and fitness.  The warranty on cheaper machines is not always honoured so be careful how much you pay – maybe get a resale machine. In New Zealand where I live there are many, very many, on auction sites.

I am surprised your Chiropractor has a Crazyfit machine.  There are several models but they do not test accurate to stated specs. 

Maybe wait until you can get a better machine or use finance to get a high speed pivotal, or medium or high energy lineal. Make sure you try both type, you might prefer one over the other.  NEVER stand upright on a lineal machine, it’s never the way to use it; trial the machine using a deep (just above sitting) squat. Sometimes salespeople have no idea how to use the machine and demonstrate them badly – hence my warning.  You can stand upright safely on a pivotal machine set at a lower speed but with back and neck pain I suggest you have soft knees (bent a little).

I have worked through various pains and muscle imbalances using a high energy lineal machine and I prefer that type BUT with both back and neck pain you might like pivotal – I suggest HyperVibe which can be used for therapy through to full workout.  It takes some time to learn how to set the speeds for different body parts. You can check out the recommended Safety Programs here:

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-31 10:34:46
The isolator issue is only relevant to commercial lineal units really. So no need to worry for you anyway. 
Jillie Posted On:2012-03-31 04:12:13

Di Heap, Thank you for the response. I live in the U.S., WA State. I am not overweight, though I am prone to back and neck pain. My aim with a "starter" model is to improve blood flow, bone density, etc., waking up and working my muscles a bit, ideally providing ACTIVE therapy perhaps verging on MILD training. One article on this site mentions the degradation rates of "isolators" in some units, though I couldn not tell whether all machines use isolators or whether they are unique to lineal machines. I got a little spooked, and now I am afraid that with daily use at moderate levels, the inferior internal materials of a therapeutic model will start falling apart in a year or so. Please tell me I am neurotic.

John Posted On:2012-03-30 02:56:56

A real student has an intellectual curiosity that results in continual learning.  A fake student is a "know it all" who has no desire to learn anything new.

John T. Weatherly

P.S.  I agree that people that will not even post their names should not be given any credibility on forums like this.

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-29 13:15:17
We have highly qualified people through our studio each day in the medical field. All whom agree that what we do is a new field of science.
These people know the txts books are always changing. Which is why they came to educate themselves through experience. And if you asked authors of the txtx books, they will also confirm things are always changing. The books are always behind the times.  It is an idea appreciated by real experts.
It is a shame it is lost on some of the "students" of science.    
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-29 12:58:13
For a start, if you have something important to state, put your real full name up. Or it will be taken you are not committed enough to your own idea to stand by it. 
In bio-101. Really ???
It also teaches you myogenesis does not happen in the heart or brain tissue. But they got it wrong. Because now they know it is possible in most cells at any age.
You do know that everything you learnt in bio-101 was once scoffed at by "experts". Just like Vibration Training was scoffed at by "the experts" .
You can thank people like me for not believing everything they are told blindly. In fact you can thank people like me for EVERYTHING you have, even your life.
Note: We have managed to build new muscle in people with Myotonic muscular dystrophy. Something thought actually impossible a few years ago.
funny this website gives "advice" Posted On:2012-03-29 12:36:31

this information is wrong... you cannot regenerate muscle fiber...  aka muscle cell.  in fact it is why after age 30, sarcopenia sets in and you can slow it by exercise but you cannot stop it entirely.  Bulky muscles are merely an increase in muscle SIZE  ... the fiber itself, not an actual regeneration of muscle cells.  they do NOT replicate as this person states... who actually called others "ignorant".  In fact the lack of skeletal mucscle regeneration ability is a well known fact taught in bio 101.

abcde Posted On:2012-03-28 22:37:23

You think 4477 posts will be missed.

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-28 20:25:39
Time to effect more change peoples.....
Dear Dealfind,
                   by now you will be aware of a multiple comments Consumer Truth Bomb on the latest DZT sale.
Because you are continuing to facilitate DZT in selling Vibration Training machines with fake specifications, ( after you were made aware of this issue in the last sale as per all the deleted posts on the subject) . I am taking the campaign up a notch. 
Over the next few weeks. Random comments demanding Dealfind refund all Dealfind customers who have been scammed over the last few deals with DZT will be posted. On multiple sales ( not related to DZT )
Please note:  The subject is serious because people with various health issues, such as weight loss and certain disabilities, including the elderly, have been effected.
I will contact you after the Consumer Truth Bomb has finished and see what effect it has had on your ethics / bottom line / reputation . I will also be sending emails to all the "news" sources you claim have mentioned you,  outlining our plan, hoping at least one picks up on the story. 
It is the first time a consumer advocate group had done this, so it will be interesting to see what outcome we can effect. Wish us luck.  
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-03-28 17:50:41


Read this article:


Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-03-28 17:46:13

Jillie, it depends on what results you want and a few other factors.  Crazyfit is on the BlackList because they attach fake specs to the machines (be careful – there are many brands of identical machine and all are apparently the new model).  They also claim results that simply cannot happen using that machine – muscle build etc. The adverts and infomercials show people with amazing bodies and say you can look like that too. 

Crazyfit  machines don’t work well if a persons weighs  over 60kg (130lbs) – they can’t cope with even regular weight.

They do have some  use. They are quite gentle. They increase blood circulation and can help with improving bone density. They help with relaxation, reducing stress. They might even help you sleep better.  They might help decrease aches and pains by activating muscle and joint mobility.

I hope this helps you decide if it will work for you until you get a better machine.  If you tell us where in the world you are, we can guide you further.

Jillie Posted On:2012-03-28 17:09:21

I am planning to save up for a high quality lineal machine for training, but in the meantime, I would like to get a less expensive pivotal machine for therapeutic purposes. The chiropractic office I visit uses a CrazyFit, but as it is on your Blacklist, I hesitate to purchase one. Is there a brand of therapeutic use pivotal machine that you can in good conscience recommend

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-03-28 16:35:04

DZT V7000 machines are being sold on Victoria, Canada.  The machines have fake specs!

There’s a questions forum on the DealFind page for the the DZT V7000 deal. It’s been spammed (by... guess who) – good job!

It’s really important to warn people and to stop companies selling products with fake specs to the very people who most need the machines – especially Obese, Disabled, Stay at home Older folk and mothers who do no other exercise.

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-27 22:16:53
Brent...  Two things..
(a) I would want to know why the knee is building up fluid first before doing anything like Vibration Training
(b).  You would need a machine with side handle bars for safety. 
I would be very wary of using the wrong machine with the wrong program.
  Where are you located ?
brent Posted On:2012-03-27 16:02:33

i have full knee replacement it was done 5 years ago and i still get swelling on the knee will vibration training help me

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-03-26 10:31:03

I agree; John, regular physical activity and exercise along with extra attention given to nutrition (possibly supplementation) can help reduce age related physical changes.  Also as a mental boost; exercise lowers stress hormones and gives a “feel-good” effect which is interesting – we add controlled stress to the body to reduce mental stress.  (I tell some of my customers to go for a short, outdoor walk when they feel caught in a spiral of worry or mild depression).

 Vibration Training (good quality lineal or pivotal machines) using the Safety Program is such an effective and safe way for older adults to maintain muscle strength, joint mobility, bone strength, hormonal balance, and mental acuity and more.  All of this helps maintain independence (assuming no heredity or illness problems) and involvement in activity.

 I’ve been reading a booklet about physical activity from Sweden (recently translated into English) – the section about “older adults” is really interesting.  It simply states why we already know – no surprises – recommendation for older adults to continue or begin aerobic (walking, swimming etc) and weight training. Generally as we age we lose muscle mass and muscle strength caused by a decrease in the number and size of muscle fibres, even to halving muscle strength.  This then affects bone mass and strength. We also tend to increase fat deposits.  Suddenly there’s increased risk of falling, risk of fractures, osteoporosis etc.  Improvement in muscle mass and quality of 50 - 200% was achieved with weight training no more than 3 times a week (80% max).  This equates to having the same strength as a much younger person.  Maintenance with weights can be training as little as once weekly.

 I believe Vibration Training will become a major activity for older adults (even aged 40+).  With a quality and well designed machine there’s even greater benefits than using weights for many people.  The machine causes a rebalancing effect that can’t easily be achieved with free-weights or weight machines.  This helps improve imbalances caused by injuries or occupational reasons.  We see a rapid increase in strength and, as in my husband’s experience, visual shape change in muscles.  Flexibility improves markedly; some people come into the studio hunched or using a stick to help with balance and walking and leave walking upright, unaided.  After a few months they maintain those benefits as long as they keep coming.   We recommend training (or therapy for those who can’t do the full training program) 3 times a week, minimum of twice.  I don’t think it is possible to maintain benefits by training once a week except for a very short length of time.  In the not too distant future we’ll have machines in older person’s villages, community centres, hospitals, gyms, just about everywhere BUT firstly there’s a lot of education to be done. The machines are serious exercise equipment and as such they need to be respected and used correctly.


John Posted On:2012-03-26 02:49:50

Good story Di.  As we age, I believe vibration training can be of tremendous value for strength training without the joint stress of traditional strength or power training.  Additonally, runners pound and mangle their bodies step after step and day after day.  Some can tolerate this continued stress over time but others cannot.  I believe two or three hard vibration training or strength training sessions a week with physical activity of a less demanding nature on other days is a good way to go for health and wellness in the long term.  Of course, as we age our hormones fall off and one needs to pay ample attention to nutrition, how we handle or react to the inevitable stresses of life etc for a complete wellness approach.

John T. Weatherly

Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-03-25 18:50:23

Quote from a customer – “after all the years I forced myself to use free weights and saw no change in my body; who would have thought it would be this easy to gain muscle strength and look better”

Okay – the quote as it stands is what he said – but it’s a bit misleading.

Click through to my latest blog to read the rest.  This is about the results my husband, Greg, has seen from regular Vibra-Train studio sessions.

Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-19 21:43:30
The victim mentality, and the "hear no evil see no evil" deafening silence of Galileo has been profound and its effects will last for years. They had a small window of opportunity in 2004 - 2005 to act, and instead they froze. Out of arrogance or fear, makes no difference. The damage was the same.  
As much as Gabriel Ettenson will not want to admit. But the pioneers of Pivotal had no vision when it came to forming this industry.
Think about this....
They basically challenged the industry to build faster and better machines. By saying " faster and higher is better, so choose us ". But then failed to clearly outline how to use such machines.
I did the exact opposite. Challenged the industry to build better Lineal machines. Then rammed a safety program down everyone's throats.
One of these things is not like the other. 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-03-19 14:55:45
To address some of the others...
 “Pivotal platforms are for therapeutic purposes only”
Again if you look at the foundations of the industry. You had a bunch of Physios working for Galileo, actually refusing to discuss setting up "training" programs for the studio concept.  If fact they thought the idea of a studio was stupid.  I know because I engaged them and got knocked back in regards to developing a standard Pivotal program as a start point for commercial ventures. 
They kept promoting "fluff" poses that had therapy values but little training effects. They certainly did not want to even discuss weight loss programs with me.
Why did you think it took them years to even get into a studio ( yours Gabriel ) and you had to be a Physio for them to want to talk to you ?
“Lineal is better for moving lymph. You cannot use Pivotal for this!”
Zero foundation . Just made up BS. All muscle movement involves lymph .
 “Higher frequencies are better! It means more muscle contractions!”
 The industry is full of stuff like that. Anyone who preaches "more is more" " Faster , higher = better is guilty of this mindset. Seen it from Power Plate and Galileo to name a few.
 “Pivotal platforms emit dangerous electromagnetic fields (EMF’s)!”
Technically speaking anything electrical does this. So again quite easy to refute and never heard this as a reason to not do VT in all my years running a studio.
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