Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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John Posted On:2012-05-07 11:51:48

I am  building owqener looking to rent space to a vibration gym. Has anybody ever experienced problems with buildings vibrating from the machines and creating problems with other tenants.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-06 18:11:12
Mike M...
 
Companies hire marketers. Marketers can not help themselves. So sometimes that is the result.
 
But who knows. Might be innocent. As I said. Ask a specific question, even a slightly negative comment and see what reaction you get.
 
Marketers are like lawyers. They can not concede a point, so stand out in their over the top defence of the product they are selling.      
 
Mike M. Posted On:2012-05-06 05:21:25

Wave does viral marketing?

They lose a ton of my respect, if true.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-05 11:06:39
Mike M... ( about comment on another forum )
 
That is more than likely just a viral marketer. You can usually tell by the way they speak. Try getting specific info off them, as that is a sure fire way of seeing if they are the real deal.
 
Note: Most marketers and salespeople in this industry do not even use Vibration Training themselves.  So they are clueless on the details of how to actually use a machine. I have customers who could take them to school.     
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-05 10:45:38
Kevin...
 
Yes you are right. But with only a few High Speed Pivotal units around, I really hoped the companies selling them caution people not to "wind them up" on all poses. 
 
Note: 99% of units out there hit 6G max on the outside edge. 
 
You will note I was already trying to differentiate upper body from legs on speed settings on the Pivotal program. But very hard to do past "the concept" of speed with the Pivotal industry only now starting to clarify real Fqs ( as opposed to fake ) 
 
 
I have spent the last half decade just getting the basics across to industry players and we have made headway.  I see greater clarification and joint educational material being released soon.          
 
Kevin-A Posted On:2012-05-04 22:17:21

Lloyd

Firstly thanks for the safe program for pivotal machines. Just a note regarding the wide stance squat . I feel this could cause undue pressure on the inner calf. The trouble with the wide stance is that it encourages users to use the maximum deflection which will exhibit the max g force on the foot. If you relax the feet the presure somewhat reduced and I feel this stance should only be used by very expienced and fit users.

Although I must say the pelvic stability exercise is a great additional pose I have now started using in my workout

Regards

Kevin A

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-03 14:10:23
...
 
I see no reason to pay and it would infer you did something wrong.
 
You are allowed to defend yourself. You do not need a lawyer and you have enough information now to directly dispute any opinion her "consultant" has. In fact I would say the consultant would change their opinion when faced with a study that clearly states Vibration applied directly to the skull neither positively or negatively effects the condition.
 
Gary Posted On:2012-05-03 08:49:52

Lloyd and Dean thanks for your response to my question. the amount of mony she is asking for is quite small  250 pounds uk, do you feel its worth fighting this case which i do or do you think i should pay her and move on.even though i feel i have done nothing wrong.thanks Gary.

 
Dean Posted On:2012-05-02 05:52:25

Gary

Not to go into details, but there is almost no chance that vibration training (especially safety program which reduces head vibration to a minimum) caused benign paroxysmal positional vertigo. There is always a chance that it could provoke it in the same manner as long walking can provoke pain in already arthritic knees. Suffice to say that vibration has been used, and still is to treat this condition. And we are talking about vibration transferred directly to a mastoid process of the skull.   More about that on :
http://www.cmaj.ca/content/169/7/681.full

http://archotol.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/126/5/617?ijkey=2273e080ee25ae531891f8e6912bfb7e2d04012c&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha


 

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-01 16:30:38
What happens to $7000 machines value after 2 years.
 
 
Why. Because it was not a real commercial machine as advertised.
 
Eg... a $14,000 Vibra Gym ( new )  can now get a second hand price of $5000  after 5 years of use.
 
 
One of these things is not like the other. 
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-05-01 16:20:12
Gary...
 
Vibration Training done "properly = precisely"  carries no more risk than any other form of activity.In reality because you cant even see the person moving, far less than most. 
 
 
The study was done on an older female group with no reports of any such issues. And in fact the conclusion was....
 
" Vibration Training generates stress level equivalent to the level during walking and stair-climbing."
 
Note: Your units are about the quarter power of my standard level 2 ( they go up to level 5 ) and we have never even had a single ACC claim against us. The fact this technology has been available to the public for a decade now in multiple countries with no mass negative reports ( which you would expect if any inherent risks were a factor ) . The worst we get is people not liking it. 
 
I would be the first one to disclose and bring to the industries attention any suspected medical problems. After all I am not in this for the sales, just the science.
 
Recent eye surgery might have been an issue, but not for the condition she has ( benign paroxysmal positional vertigo )
 
 
It is unfortunate but the condition can strike for a number of reasons. It is of course possible Vt caused it, but no more so than any activity anyone chooses to do. After all the condition has been a diagnosis lomg before Vt was invented. 
 
Gary Posted On:2012-05-01 04:34:10

Hi just a quick question, we use vibrostation machines in our studio using the safety program for lineal machines. We had a client who had a free trial which seemed okay at the time, we checked her medical conditions to which she had previously signed and there were no contra indication .  Now 3 months later she has wrote to us saying she has been suffering from benign paroxysmal positional vertigo which her consultant said was probably caused by the vibration plate being too violent. She has also now revealed that she had laser eye surgery the previous year which she did not put on her medical questioner. She has asked for an out of court settlement or she is going to instruct her solicitor to start formal proceedings against us .Do you believe the machinens could have caused this ........

Thanking you inadvance .   Gary 

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-29 16:13:05
An article on the problems with some research and academic bias....    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/12/13/101213fa_fact_lehrer
 
I think our industries researchers will be proven in time to not just be biased ( for or against ) , but actually deliberately negligent to the point of fraud.
 
It is not just the "positive effects conclusions" they jumped to, but the people they could of helped if they had been honest about their own intellectual limitations. 
 
 
Pretend experts do hurt people in the long run.   
 
      
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-25 23:54:06
David...
 
" I did tried vibrogym before and I didn't feel it was very strong for training" ........ It must have been a home machine. The Pro unit is very strong.  In fact nothing else really for retail that is any stronger.  Similar yes, like the vibratrimmer. But not stronger.
 
A two motors system is usually better.    
 
Using either a Pivotal or a Lineal would help with Therapy issues. It just has to be used in the right way, or it can be quite a waste of time and money. 
 
Best bet is to stick to the basics you can do safely with your injuries.
 
 
David Posted On:2012-04-25 18:17:08

Does anyone have any experience with DKN xg10, it only has one motor, could that mean that machine with 2 motors like vibratrimmer is stronger-better, like I said I did tried vibrogym before and I didn't feel it was very strong for training, altough my primary interest is for now therapy (short, overused and torn muscles). What type of machinne would be more apropriate for that kind of problems, lineal or pivotal? Which one would be more beneficial to lets say greater blood flow, muscle relaxation-lengthening, breaking collagen or maybe even scar tissue. Hope I'm not asking too much different thing in one post.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-24 13:30:30
The other website actually deleted comments and recommendation about the machine/company David is asking about.  I was looking for something in my email, but unfortunately 99% of Q&A were done online. I do have most of it saved, but too much to go through. ( Note: You used to be able to search the forum for particular words as well which was a big help for everybody )
 
To give you an idea of the scale of the info deleted for greed's sake. 4477 posts. 3 years of consumer info.
 
All of it aimed at helping people such as yourself make good decisions.      
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-23 21:28:39
David...
 
More similar to a VibroGym in feel. Even though the new Power Plates are stronger than the older Chinese made models.
 
 
massamagra....
 
The site is ok but very limited in real time knowledge. Read this to understand.....  http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/engineering-reports-and-vibration-training-experts
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-23 20:34:13
For Everyone's Interest.......
 
Here is the answer to David's question on "the other site" 
 
 

Never heard of it. The platforms we support are listed. Outside of that, buyer beware.

The company and machine has been around longer than "expert" Gabriel Ettenson has been involved in Vibration Training. Just another of the 200 or so brands he is clueless about.(  About a dozen which are high quality units I would recommend. )

One of these sites is not like the other.  Buyer beware indeed.  

         

 
David Posted On:2012-04-23 20:00:56
sorry, somehow I missed your answer, and by rhe way thanks for quick response,  yes I asked the same question on other site because I want more opinions howewer they now nothing about it.
 
Anyway Im mostly interested in lineal vibration, I did try the vybrogym evolution and powerplate pro before, could you make a comparison with that machine, what do you think about the price-performance ratio.
 
I would also like to know what is your opinion on the italian site massamagra, they provide quite a lot info about diferent vibrating machines, howewer they are also sellers, so I am not sure about their honesty, and they mostly favorize pivotal machines like galileo.
 
David Posted On:2012-04-23 19:47:57

Hi, I posted my question yesterday, looks like it has been deleted, so I ask once again if someone could help me

does anyone have any experience with german machine vibratrimmer (sport model, I think). It weights 100 kg, has 2 motors( 250 watts) , and supposed to have both lineal and pivotal function and both low and high amplitude in lineal function (2mm and 4mm acording to the sellers site). Anyway I am asking because someone is selling it for half the price (arond 3000 EUR), I think he’s closing its studio. What would be your opinion? Could that be a quality macine?Thank you for your answer.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-23 15:49:38
David...
 
Be wary of any advice given on the other forum you asked the same question on. Some of the "experts" are no better than salespeople. Everything they say is tainted with a sale in mind.
 
Read my warning post down 12 comments.   
 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-23 14:57:08
David...
 
No direct experience. But I did get a good report of their first machine ( the basic ) some years ago. Good solid design.  Not much to go wrong really.
 
Please note: They do not have a proper Pivotal / Lineal unit in the strictest sense ( a new model ) . By running the two motors in the same direction they reduce the upward force and transfer 50% from side to side instead. 
 
 
Mike M....
 
When 99% of the public can not do a position properly. Even with good instruction. It had to be taken off our program. But good luck if it helps your back.     
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-04-23 10:37:28

David

I will ask Lloyd Shaw to answer your question when he comes into the studio.

Looking at the vibratrimmer.de website (translated into English) the machine looks impressive and has good specs. The website gives lots of information including full contact details which is a good sign.

 

Mike M

We don’t use any form of lunge in our studio – IVTRB Safety Program.  The risks outweigh the benefits for most people as it’s a difficult position to get right, keeping the knees safe.
Also as you know we only use static poses.

For you– I can’t really comment as you have a different machine to our studios ones and you are responsible for your own correct positioning.

 
Mike M. Posted On:2012-04-23 05:14:17

Just lately I have been noticing a lot of benefit from doing dynamic lunges. I've tried them both on the lineal and also pivotal platforms, and also w/o vibration, and it's really helping my low back pain. I always hold on to something while doing them to keep from falling and lower the pressure a bit. The benefit is similar to what I found doing the lat exercise I described earlier (which has fixed my shoulder pain). If I'm right, I could have my low back pain free in a week or so for the first time in years.

 
David Posted On:2012-04-23 00:18:15

Hi,

does anyone have any experience with german  machine vibratrimmer (sport model, I think). It weights 100 kg, has 2 motors( 250 watts) , and supposed to have both lineal and pivotal function and both low and high amplitude in lineal function (2mm and 4mm acording to the sellers site). Anyway I am asking because someone is selling it for half the price (arond 3000 EUR), I think he's closing its studio. What would be your opinion? Could that be a quality macine? Thank you for your answer.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-18 14:09:41
Nancy...
 
Read this article to help you understand .....  http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/no-such-thing-as-a-bad-machine
 
But quite simply that particular company has not got an honest reputation.  So get a similar machine if you loved the effects, but from someone else.   
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-04-18 11:19:45

Check out the Machine Reviews here:  http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/machine-reviews

You will see that PowerStep falls into the category: Low Speed Pivotal

This type of machine is often sold with vastly exaggerated advertising promising results that will have you looking like a professional athlete in short time.  Also the machine specs are almost always false.  The website specs state the machine has a range up to 60Mhz – oh my !  They really mean 20-60Hz and even then they are dreaming –  that type of machine runs at about 12Hz – 12 times per second which is okay for the THERAPY results you got. They are trying to make it sound like a true exercise machine and it simply isn’t.  The studies they list on the website were not done on that category or type of machine.

The price is way too high for what you are getting in my opinion.  Look for a resale item on Amazon or locally. There are other brands very similar also but please try before you buy so you know how you respond to the particular brand or particular machine. Similar looking ones can feel quite different. If you buy a new machine check out the warranty carefully.

I’ve told you the bad points, now for the good. It can work well for circulation, gentle stimulation and, as you found, it can give pain relief.  Also it might help improve bone density after some time. Might help you sleep well by giving relaxation and reducing stress (along with pain).

You haven’t told us your age or health or weight.  Beware, this type of machine has lowered performance when the users weight is anything above average.

If the results you got from your trial are what you are wanting, the machine works for you. If you also want fitness and exercise results, I’d be looking at a different machine.

 
nancy Posted On:2012-04-18 08:54:37

I would like to know if you have ever heard of "power step".  I tried at a local home builders show. I know I know, have no idea why they set up there but I am glad they did.  tried their macine for  about 3 minutes and had fantastic results, i.e. pain relief, head pressure relief.  so I have been trying to research and learn what I can so now I am totally confused.  but did like the feel and results.  so any opinions wouldb e greatly appreciated.  it would be for my personal use as well as my husbands.  he also obtained good pain relief in his knees from this unit which for both of us lasted a number of hours.

thank you.

 
Lloyd Shaw Posted On:2012-04-15 22:09:45
At first it was not clear why. But later it transpired they were trying to sell the site. So obviously had to make it look like they owned the work.
 
Why they couldn't just write their own ?  It was dozens of articles and they were only pretending to be experts.  
 
star66 Posted On:2012-04-15 18:08:57

Why would they want to steal anything. Couldnt they just write their own stuff. Was it copy and paste or paraphrase.

 
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