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Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-08-17 20:35:18
Filthy marketers trying to rip off the Body-Shaker brand in Europe.
 
 
 
Stealing someone else's name is just plain lazy and unethical. 
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-08-17 17:01:38
Mike M...
 
No need to apologize, you asked questions. I just want you to make sure you understand not everybody giving advice on that board are upfront. Even about their own conclusions on certain subjects. I instead pull no punches even if I end up hitting myself.   
 
 
 No what you will find is some industry people  deny out rightly that how much force a machine produces ( KN ) has any effect on a workout and results. Instead he will stick to what he understands. Fq x Amplitude = Acceleration.
 
I will tell you the KN value does much more than just stop the platform dropping its specs under load. 
 
There is an old saying...
 
One person will say the glass is half full,
Another will say the glass is half empty,
An engineer will say the glass is too big.
 
Think about this, a machine can only go so far and so fast. So what happens if you peak at so far and so fast, just stop and be content with what you have ? Or do you add other factors like "weight" to that equation. Maybe it is only then you can learn it all becomes about control, rather than raw Fq x Amplitude.    
 
The real difference in mindset...
 
But then you also have to realize my idea or ultimate dream was not to just make a good copy of someone else's machine  Some peoples sole aim in this industry is to simply mix and match existing technology into an ever increasing array of machines not really moving forward at all.  
 
I did not want to replicate an industry I saw already had massive problems and limitations with it.
 
 
What is the cut off point for High Energy + ... ?
 
The exact figures are already in my online work in different places. I have not laid it out in one place because it in no way would help the consumer at present. And anyone in the industry in my opinion that are too lazy to "read, add 1 + 1 and have a little think", have no right having it laid out for them. I have been around long enough to know they are the exact same type of people, who would just take the KN spec anyway and put it on their product no matter what it actually did.
 
It would have only added fuel to the "fake spec war" not kill it. 
 
Mike M. Posted On:2011-08-17 07:42:26

I meant no criticism. I am just interested in getting different people's opinions on the terminology and what it should be; as you point out, there doesn't seem to be much (if any) standardization or consistency in that, in this industry, and it would be interesting to see what he says is a high or medium energy machine, what are the criteria for the definition, just as it would be interesting to see what you say. And to see where your opinions differ, and why. You might well both have valid opinions, I can't know until I ask.

One thing that appears to be agreed on by both of you is that some machines (like Power Plate) would, if they delivered what they promise BOTH loaded and unloaded, might be high or at least strong medium energy, but since they don't (when loaded), they might be low medium at best. At a high energy price. This is something I bet both of you agree that consumers should know about. Because the resulting disappointment would tend to hurt the industry overall.

 
Keith Posted On:2011-08-16 04:05:56

Lloyd

Thanks for the info.

 

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-08-13 16:46:16
Just to clarify one thing from my last post...
 
By simple windmills I mean these.....  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-zS6ZrfXDI&feature=related
 
The backward ones are usually the most effective and comfortable. 
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-08-12 22:09:34
Keith...
 
I see no reason someone with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome can not do Vibration Training. The basic program combined with normal stretching and other basic arm shoulder exercises. Eg... 100 simple windmills done in a slow and controlled manner 3 times a day .
 
The only time Vibration Training would not be advised is if it was caused by an accident.  
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-08-12 11:55:46

The IVTRB Vibration Training Safety Program  - makes it very easy for Instructors to train Clients.

I saw this even more so yesterday when I needed to take a phone call. Another Instructor simply stepped in and took over training the two new (first time) customers, half way through the program.

Check it out here:  http://www.vibratrainlease.com/workouts.html 

There’s both the poster showing the positions and step-by-step instructions

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-08-12 10:13:49

Vibration Training – Obesity and Morbid Obesity – THE RESULTS

My latest article telling of the results we are seeing – REAL results – REAL people

vibration-training-obesity-and-morbid-obesity-the results (http://bit.ly/qosjWe)

We start with simple sessions; sitting in a chair with feet on the edge of the vibration machine, and work up to the full IVTRB Safety Program. Fluff poses just wouldn’t help these people – it’s all about saving lives and getting mobility and strength.

 
Franco Posted On:2011-08-12 08:15:37

Lloyd,

I agree with not promoting the massage poses too much. In fact, all my ex powerplate or similar weak machines clients appreciate and enjoy more the hardness of the workout on the VibroGym compared to the previous machine and not focus on the massage, which I also use for four minutes at the end of the session. I want them to walk in with a gym mindset and ready to workout hard, then they get rewarded with the final massage. All of them love the safety program because it is hard to perform, well balanced and the results come quickly, without jumping around the platform and other fancy things they used to do before. Now they take it seriously...

 
Keith Posted On:2011-08-12 05:52:52

Hi Lloyd Im hoping to get some help on this forum for a condition called Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. My friends wife has been eventually diagnosed with this condition after many years of pain. She doesnt want to undergo any operations. Her husband knows you have helped me before with information and suggestions regarding therapy and asked me to see if you would be able to give any advice in this regard. Thanks, Keith

 
PhilippaChurch Posted On:2011-08-12 02:04:59

Yes, can see how you would not want to promote it too much.  I am intrigued though about lying on the machine on a mat for back massage.   I have not tried that and would have been very wary  this is OK to do you are saying, question mark,  

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-08-11 15:38:21
All machines can be used in basically unlimited massage poses. One of the reason I have not pushed that side of things ( apart from some safety issues ) , is from what I witnessed from day one at Power Plate. The more Therapy poses someone does the less seriously they take Vibration Training, and they start seeing them as a big massage tool. And at present with us still all fighting to be taken seriously by the fitness industry and public, it actually works against us.
 
All you also have to do is look at Galileo. Because they concentrated on Physio applications they never broke into the health and fitness market. They have now given up on ever doing it. But there is nothing wrong with their machine. The experience the users got was just not "serious" enough. Every "fluff pose" they promoted took them one step further from the real market.   
 
I would put this subject in the danger bracket of " not being taken seriously " as people being allowed to come out position because it is too hard. Those people eventually stop coming. 
 
The things that will make this industry...
 
(a)  Body Fat Loss / Fighting obesity
 
(b) Fighting cellulite 
 
(c) Strength and conditioning 
 
(d) Fighting osteoporosis
 
PhilippaChurch Posted On:2011-08-10 21:38:45

Would be great to see some footage with some different ways you can use the machines to massage other than cellulite.  Looking forward to it.  Thanks

 
Sam Vesey Posted On:2011-08-10 12:34:48
Hey Mike -
So far I have found that the stabilization (balancing of my muscles) has been the greatest benefit. I was really unbalanced before doing VT, you can ask Lloyd how shaky I was when I started. Now I can hold any of the poses without flintching, as well as feeling more well balanced in my high jump related activities. I believe a balanced body is the most important feature any athlete can have, as its the base. I do feel great increases in strength but I've found that hard to measure - all I know is that I can handle any plyometric session I put up for myself where before I had real trouble with anything straight from the get go. And to me thats all that matters.

As to the vertical, yeah I do think that this will level off as I think it will with anyone with any type of training, but so far it has increased my ability noticably. However with my event being one-footed, I'm more concerned about having a well balanced body and having that explosive reactive power... it's a very different type of jump. The increase in vertical has just pointed out to me that I've gotten more powerful.
 
I've definatly been able to handle the VT sessions better as the weeks have progressed, but there is never an easy session. Two minutes of any pose still gets me going, but I've developed a higher threshold to pain.
 
I don't tend to focus on any area, I just do the programme from start to finish and make sure that I put as little pressure through my toes as possible. The only specific calf work I would do is a calf massage after I've finished the session. What I've found most beneficial from VT is the quad work it has done for me. They have just completely transformed into rock and given me no trouble whatsoever since starting - I don't even need to use a foam roller to massage out my thighs.
 
I do all of the poses in the standard programme, including upper body. The upper body VT poses most definatly help with generating more power- I've been told once that arms can contribute to 10% of a high jump- and with a standing vertical it would help immensely.
 
Let me know if theres anything else you're curious of,
Sam
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-08-09 16:49:48
Mike M....
 
Sounds interesting. As you are finding out there are innumerable ways of using a platform and involuntary reflexes are cool to play with. In this case you are getting your hamstrings and quads to "catch" your foot.
 
 Just keep it safe.
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-08-09 16:39:31
The Health Station Platinum would be the choice out of those two. Mainly as you stated because it can do both and it is in your price range.
 
As for your question regarding exercise and a trial drug, I would really need to know what the drug is. As some play havoc with the way muscles repair themselves. 
 
Mike M. Posted On:2011-08-09 16:30:07


 You know, just messing around with the Crazy Fit yesterday, I think I may have discovered a new (to me) method to work the legs out and I thought I would share it here, to see if anyone else has an opinion of it. I know that we have a perfectly fine method in the squat and it will likely always be the king exercise, but this is (I think) rather like the equivalent to a leg extension. Done hundreds of times, thanks to the vibration. I felt it, and the squat has been getting too easy lately, so I think the variation is a very good thing, at least for me. Anyway, on the the exercise.

I stumbled upon it while I was doing the back massage/leg lift thing I described earlier. This variation, I speculated that doing a hamstring massage might be worth a try, so I did that. While doing so (all I had to do was sit up and lean back a bit, holding on to the rails) I tried pressing my hamstrings down on the platform while leaning back a bit. This results in a slight whipping motion as I suspend my feet a couple inches above the floor, while flexing the quadriceps and pressing the hamstrings into the platform set to 20. To top it off, adding 10# ankle weights ups the pressure a lot. This feels a lot like a resisted leg extension that you hold extended for a long time, but the vibration gives you the reps you need.

 
Irina Posted On:2011-08-09 15:30:32

Hi, I read your forums and I have found a lot of interesting things for me, and your site is extremely helpful, but I still have some questions.

I am in South Australia and I am looking to buy a vibration machine for home use.  Can you give me advice which one will be better.  Health Station Platinum, or the TVR5930 Zen Pro or maybe some other device that I am unaware of.   My budget is around AU3,000.

The Health Station looks interesting as it does both types of vibrations.

Also if the vibration machine can help with muscle weakness caused through use of a trial drug.

Any advice please.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-08-06 10:57:17

38hz Low setting for your husband. And he should only do it once to gauge how suitable it is for him.

 
Patty Posted On:2011-08-06 02:24:47

Lloyd,

Okay…for back massage, should I set the machine at 45 and high amplitude for my husband, or a different setting ? Also, for how long and how often can he repeat? Thank you for letting me know about the “don’t” on the lineal!

Julia will be happy to hear she can massage daily...she wont have access to machine after Aug 18th.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-08-05 17:04:18
Patty...  Ok to do massage every day. But don't overdo it or you could end up bruising yourself. 
 
Re the back idea. Mike M is using a Pivotal not Lineal unit at present. Sitting upright on a Lineal machine is not recommended ( anti-cell you always lean forward ) . And guys cant sit on it like that at all.  A lying flat on your back massage ( on a mat ) is probably the safest bet to release muscle tension.
 
I am doing some filming this weekend and will do a special back massage one.
 
 
Mike M.......  Regarding Sam's program. I will let him answer the other questions, but he is following my program http://www.youtube.com/user/VibraTrain#p/u/3/PikfQv7uwwo at present with the intention of just creating raw lineal power. I am going to be adding High Energy Pivotal to his program soon for extra balance.       
 
Patty Posted On:2011-08-05 15:43:37

Mike M

Tonight my daughter and I did the full safety program following Lloyd’s instruction of 1 minute poses at 38 on low intensity, two sets each with 30 second rest in between. No issues except when trying to do the “superman” pose. Neither of us could hold the full one minute, and we didn’t even attempt to do a second set. I am not sure if it was due to the fact that is was the last pose we did or if it is really that hard to do…perhaps that is why the name? We are both really liking the machine. I will try to get hubby to try your recommendation this weekend. I was thinking massage therapy only for him until the lower back pain diminishes. Thanks for the input. It will be interesting to see if there is any real difference in our machine and the one you ordered.

Lloyd

Another question I now have - if we want to do the massage therapy for cellulite, etc….can we use the machine every day for massage…or do we still need to limit usage to every other day? My daughter is very slim, but still has just a bit of the horrible matter…and wants to work on getting rid of it before going back to college…any suggestions? I did recommend to her that she increase her water intake to 55 ounces per day …her weight is 110.

 
Mike M. Posted On:2011-08-05 01:14:39

Thanks for that Patty. Still looking for my Wave to be delivered, hopefully this month? It has now been almost 9 weeks since my order, so the redesigned displays should hopefully be there by now.

FWIW I also have a lot of lower back pain, and last night I decided to try something for it using the Crazy Fit. I put a large cushion right up against the machine behind it, and sat on the base with it set to 15-20 range and leaned back and did leg lifts. It is my belief the LBP is from chronically weak lower ab muscles combined with discs that are getting dried out with age so I just wanted to get a little extra movement and vibration to that area. It felt pretty good and positioned the spine above the central platform area which is the pivot and doesn't move. This morning I am almost pain free, which is rare for me in the morning.

My next question is to Sam Vesey. I see that you compete in the high jump. Would you say that the greatest benefit of VT to you is stabilization (or strength balancing) between muscle groups, or is it increased strength? Do you think you will continue to increase strength and max vertical, or have you noticed it leveling off? Is the VT getting harder, easier, or about the same since you started? Lastly, do you concentrate more on the knee area or the calf area, and which do you think benefits the most from the VT? Do any upper body VT poses help any with your vertical?

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-08-04 22:17:23
I always wondered why every machine ever made did not come with an automatic delay.  That's until I got to quiz the "experts" in Europe directly and it became very apparent did not even use the machines themselves. Or train anyone on them. 
 
Crazy but true. 
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2011-08-04 17:37:23

It’s good to see that Wave have put in a delay/countdown start. That’s been standard on Vibra-Train from day 1. It allows the user to turn the machine on, get into position, check their position, and pray, and then the machine starts up.  It makes sense rather than trying to get into position on an already moving machine.

 
Patty Posted On:2011-08-04 16:02:17

Mike M

Our machine was delivered by a big semi - very interesting since we have a 500 foot winding driveway that a semi can not maneuver down. He had to park on the road in front of wooded lot, and fortunately, I told the gal that they needed to bring a pallet jack to get the unit down our driveway to the house. If you have any special restrictions, be sure to tell the freight company when they call to set up your delivery.

The Wave Reflex seems to be well built. It is very heavy, which makes it difficult to move, but once you get it set up where you want it, no issues. We installed it in our lower level which has an area dedicated to exercise equipment. The floor has commercial grade carpet (no pile). We have no issues with the vibration carrying into the walls or floors. (A local chiropractor told a friend of mine that he had to take his machines out of his office due to complaints from his neighbors about the vibration and noise don’t know what brand machines he has) - The sound it makes is not annoying, just a steady hum. When we turn on the machine, it sounds like it is pumping air into the base, then you stand on the unit for it to adjust to your weight. I have been traveling a lot, so I have only been able to use it twice. I am back in town for a couple months now…so plan to use it every other day as Lloyd instructs. I am doing the safety program in addition to a few of the poses the Wave book recommends. I found the 30 second poses to be fairly easy on the low setting at 38 frequency. Maybe a little burn in the last few seconds. I plan to try Lloyds recommendation of doing 1 minute poses at 38...low and progressing up when I have no issues with holding the poses. I really like the time delay setting and the lower start button for doing non-standing poses. The delay allows me to do a pose, hit the delay button immediately and it counts down your rest time, give a 5 second warning to set up for your pose again. When we hit the “finish” button, the unit does make a little racket…and I am thinking about calling Wave to see if this is normal. As I mentioned in my previous post, hubby has back pain right now…so he is not using the machine yet. Hopefully in another week I will be able to get him on it again. So far, with minimal chance to use the machine, I would say that I am very satisfied with our purchase. I will keep you posted on our progress.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-08-04 10:16:35
New article.......
 
 
 
Forum Admin Posted On:2011-08-04 07:53:55

This discussion forum is worldwide so it cannot generally be used to buy or sell machines. There are auction sites available – ebay worldwide, TradeMe New Zealand, etc  -  designed for resale and they work very well.

Please keep the discussion to current news within the industry, experiences – good and bad, questions that are not covered by the articles on site, discussion about the articles and similar. Thanks

 
Mike M. Posted On:2011-08-01 15:31:37

Hi Patty, how impressed are you so far by the build quality of the Wave? What poses are you doing? How often do you use it?

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2011-07-29 17:11:44
 
2 mins is about the max most people can hold any pose without losing form. On some poses you will never hold it that long like the arm ones.
 
Spend time perfecting the positions for 60 sec durations. Then take it up a Fq every session until you get to 45hz . Then step it up to high but drop the fq back to 38hz. And repeat process. After that mixing it up as much as possible is a good idea.
 
As for the sore back issue. I would hate to comment without knowing exactly what the issue is.
 
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