Questions and discussion forum

Please read through the articles that cover your questions, or topic of conversation before posting, as understanding the basics give the community a better chance of helping you.Please Note: Most of the frequently asked questions we have had over the years have their own article already.

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Mike M. Posted On:2012-02-16 13:03:33

So if you saw a used but working HyperGravity on the market, you wouldn't be tempted?

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-14 21:51:05
Mike M...
 
US based replicas of the European design. HyperGravity tried. And they broke ( apart from other issues a bit too complex for this forum )  .
 
Wish I could say otherwise.
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-14 21:47:09
Mike M...
 
Yes that is correct.
 
The steel box design has very particular physics attached to it. Even Vibro-Gyms new Evolution does not manage to replicate the energy reading on the older VibroGym Pro. ( And trust me they tried very hard )
 
That is why TrueVibe copied the design almost exactly for their "new" machine.
 
I think Wave is a good choice if ALL the factors on a purchase are considered.       
 
Mike M. Posted On:2012-02-14 18:18:59


So what you are saying is that none of the machines available in the US compare to those listed which are pretty much just European models not available (at least not at reasonable cost) in the US? None of the Waves even the high end Pro Elite compares to the Body Shaker or Vibrogym? The Contour Plus is also stainless steel - not sure about the web stiffening? It does have a thin rubber mat built in that I imagine damps the vibrations a bit. Should I remove the mat?
(I've been following the IVTRB program strictly since I'd guess October or early November. Ever since I sent you the video, Di. I've just cut back while trying to handle the TP problem. And I'm now using the blue mat also to try to prevent a repeat.)

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-14 17:17:25
Lysanne 
 
To clarify " the machines uses " comment. Ask your teenagers what body parts they want to "build" .  eg... Chest , arms , legs ?  Get them to do a squat for legs of course, then a push-up pose for chest. Lineal and Pivotal feel quite different in these poses. 
 
Really important they do not just try one pose as no one pose will train the whole body.        
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-14 15:48:28

Please note:  All the power and speed in the world is useless without control. Make sure your teens understand this.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-14 15:46:13
Because so many people are going to be using it for different reasons. I would really suggest a try-before-you- buy policy for everyone involved.
 
It is a significant purchase and it is no good getting something then finding out later they don't like using it.
 
The 3 in 1 unit you mention. Way too weak for the teens and yourself, no matter what mode it is in.  
 
Lysanne Posted On:2012-02-14 15:19:56

Lloyd,

I have not tried the Powervibe models but if I refer to the section on machine reviews, the shape of their machines fit more with the low speed pivotal / lineal, hence my comment. I know the Hypervibe is considered High speed for the pivotal. I am very confused on which of the 2 is best for our family since we have different needs.  this is also why I was inquiring about the 3 in 1 such as VMax Trio or VT400. I'd appreciate any input on this subject. I just don't want to get the wrong machine at this point and where I live there is virtually no VT. I will be trying the Hypervibe Performance shortly and am really looking foward to it but wanted to get the feel for a lineal machine also. Thanks.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-14 14:25:46
Lysanne
 
Just curious because of this comment....  " but I am unsure of the quality of their machines as they look to me more like the Chinese imports."
 
Where are HyperVibe made ? 
 
Lysanne Posted On:2012-02-14 10:19:09

Di Heap,

Thanks for all your advices. I haven't tried any lineal yet but will try to. I am in an area where there is very little or none vibration training. There are some machine in hospital which you cannot get access to and are more used for therapeutic usage. Though, I have contacted the rep. for Hypervibe and I can try it in Ottawa which is 1.5 hr drive from Montreal. Would this machine, which is pivotal be a good choice for my family ...question mark.. I was also told I could try a PowerVibe in my area. They have both pivotal and lineal models but I am unsure of the quality of their machines as they look to me more like the Chinese imports. Have you heard of them..

Thanks again.

 

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-13 20:56:10
The VibroGym Pro is a web stiffened stainless steel unit that transfers practically 100% of  the motors power to an individual.
 
The only directly comparable retail units are...
 
Body Shaker
TrueVibe
FitVibe Medical ( only second hand units available )
Body-Coach
 
Franco Ferroni Posted On:2012-02-13 16:51:57

Thanks Di, you preceeded me while I was still typing my answer :) 

 
Franco Ferroni Posted On:2012-02-13 13:45:23

Mike M.

 

I have never tried the Wave Contour Plus, so I must turn your question to Lloyd as he knows both machines very well and can give you a better feedback than me. About my workout, I kept strict poses through all the safety program and alternated low and high amplitude. A few times I repeated the program when I felt I needed it, but most of the times one round is good enough for me. It is incredible to notice that after the quite long period of constant training, now I get challenged even using the lowest frequencies even in low amplitude. The explosiveness that I gained is evident when I jump, because now I can do it quicker and stay longer in the air.   

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-02-13 13:32:50

Mike M

Any Vibration of the handlebars is transferred incidentally from the platform, it’s not deliberate like a Vibra-Train (the only machine in the world with side vibrating handlebars).

The VibroGym Professional is a higher energy platform than the Wave Contour Plus. But, what program are you using? Is it the IVTRB Safety Program or have you mixed it up with other poses? And are you consistent with your training and particular about “perfect position”?

 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-02-13 12:59:34

Hi Lysanne

Have you tried a Lineal (upright) vibration machine?  - See if you can find a PowerPlate, VibroGym, BodyGreen, TrueVibe or similar (especially as you used to teach PhysEd  you’ll understand  the difference in pivotal and lineal machines).  Also trial a HyperVibe Pivotal machine if you can.

Only then can you decide which type you prefer and we can better advise you.

Your husband has a bad lower back? Anything specific wrong with it? He’s out of shape – is he overweight?  This also determines what machine you can buy as many machines seriously degrade in performance over 175lbs /80Kg (some at much less )

When you trial machines get them to write down the specs of the machine, ask yourself when you try it if they seem correct – your body doesn’t lie.  Also take your husband, it’s important he tries them too and that he is shown safe positions.

For your teens to build muscle strength you need a machine that has some real force. They’d be best with a lineal platform (VibroGym Professional or TrueVibe), in my opinion but your husband might be better with a pivotal machine.  We can help you with the program once you’ve decided on a machine.

Come back with any more questions when you are ready so we can make a shortlist

 
Mike M. Posted On:2012-02-13 10:49:33


Franco, do you think the Vibrogym is enough the better machine than the Wave Contour Plus to explain the difference in your result and mine? I have been doing the same program for probably 3 months out of the 5 or so I've had the Wave but lately have cut back while the trigger point problem slowly subsides in my legs. But I have not noticed any gain in explosiveness or vertical lift at all.

Also I have noticed that the handle on the Wave vibrates somewhat. Is it anywhere close to what might be useful for the arms, or is it just incidental?

 
Lysanne Posted On:2012-02-13 07:41:23

Hello Lloyd and all contributors.

This site has tons of valuable information. Thank you so much, it is very appreciated and can almost overwhelming at time.

As many before me, I would like to purchase a vibration machine. I live in Quebec, Canada where I have not yet found any studio nearby that offer vibration training. That said, I have tried a pivotal machine, the Viba, at a trade show and was immediatly taken by the sensation in my muscles and have been researching VT since. I have a hard time deciding if I should go with a pivotal or a lineal. My husband has a bad lower back and is somewhat out of shape. I have 2 teeangers eager to train and build muscle tone and as well as general fitness. I have osteoporosis and am in good physical shape looking for general good health, loose weight and improve bone density. I use to teach Phys Ed so following a good protocol of training is important to me.  My budget unfortunately is a max of 2000 dollars. Do you have any suggestions for me as most machines you recommend and I understand why, are all above what I can pay. 

Also, I have not seen any info concerning the new or maybe not...3 in 1 machine such as VMax Trio or the Vibra Trim VT400. I would like to know what you think of these since they both sell at 1999 dollars.

Any comments would really be appreciated. Thank you.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-12 15:16:17
My reply .......
 
 
Not an expert in "Vibration Training" . You don't need to be if you spend 2 minutes on Google ?
 
With today's unlimited access to knowledge, how can anyone promote consumer disinformation. Shouldn't you be the filter between some dodgy marketer and the public you are trying to help ?
 
Not trying to give you a hard time. But I run a consumer advice website, and without  people like you putting in some effort. It makes our job a whole lot harder.
 
Angela Posted On:2012-02-12 04:21:40

Hi Lloyd,

As I mentioned on my blog in response to your comment, to clarify, my post was by no means intended to market or sell the equipment I discussed. It was simply to give a review of a class I have been participating in. I am not an expert on vibration training and all information that I posted was based on what has been claimed by Flexi-Sports, the makers of the equipment I talked about. If you are concerned about false marketing claims, I would recommend getting in touch with them rather than accusing me of trying to pass "a stick"off as vibration training.

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-11 17:52:06
Another try hard attempting to highjack the term Vibration Training for marketing purposes.
 
 
All Vibration Training followers need to give these idiots a hard time. Bad enough we have fake specs and piss weak machines out there. But now a stick gets labeled VT . Come on ????
 
Franco Ferroni Posted On:2012-02-11 12:11:36

Great job Lloyd, you are in excellent shape!! I can't wait to see the results of your report.

On my side, I can say that after six straight months of vibration training, three times per week, performing the safety program on the Vibrogym, I'm experiencing an evident improvement in my vertical jump and explosive strenght. As an ex professional basketball player, I can say it's an amazing result, especially for someone like me who had serious knee injuries and cannot work hard the legs in the traditional way.
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-11 10:32:00
Carefully read the first ever proper review and clarification of different units on the market here.... 
 
 
At the time allot of industry people did not agree with it. They could not get to grips with the ideas behind it after being feed BS for years by the "experts"  ( Note: some of them want confusion and everything in "geek speak" because it stopped people from asking the basic questions. So deliberately attacked or tried to sabotage my work eg... the story of vt.net will soon be published and I promise you will be surprised at how far these people where willing to go to destroy our work  ) 
 
But despite their protests and anti-intellectual attacks, every year, every word is being proven true. 
 
John Posted On:2012-02-10 05:36:49

I will look forward to the publication.  Dr. Bill Sands, who used to be with the USOC, had an interesting article published for the NSCA in their NSCA Connect email message.  The article is about how coaches argue over which program is best - their own or one designed by somebody else etc.  Sands even stated in the article there is a scarcity of evidence on transfer of training to actual sports performance for athletes.  If this is not evidence that so-called sports science basically does not exist - at least here in the U.S. - then I do not know what is.  Sands stated artificial lab and performance tests often have little or no relation to sports performance.  Since transfer of training to improved sports performance is the main thing for athletes - it is interesting to have a former USOC Sport Scientist write an article saying there is very little evidence for certain training programs having a high transfer to actual performance in sports.  Considering how many hours athletes train, the idea of training - I would hope - is that it will transfer to improved performance in the sport.  It leads me to wonder how inefficient many training programs could be for improving specific sports performance.  Improved sports performance is the best test.  The only way to test if vibration only training on high quality equipment improves sport performance would be to have athletes in a specific sport train with either vibration only and practice of their sport and compare it to another group that does conventional resistance training, plyos, etc  along with their sport practice.  Certain sports activities such as pitching a baseball do not require a lot of 1RM strength - a baseball only weighs 5-5 and a quarter ounces.  Perhaps baseball pitchers, for example, could save a lot of time by using vibration training - eliminating conventional resistance training - and just practicing the sport, concentrating on sleep and recovery etc.  Nobody really knows what is best for these types of athletes.  It is guessing as the Sands article more or less just came out and stated.

John T. Weatherly

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-08 12:53:22
For everyone interested in my Theories VS Results , please read this very old article of mine....
 
 
 
My year 6 results are going to be published soon !!!!! 
 
The report will be in the form of photos and body composition reports. The results are not going to be based on my "opinion". But my personal "conclusions" and story will be inserted.  
 
 
 
 
NOTHING BUT VIBRA-TRAIN FOR 6 YEARS..... Why ?  I was tired of the fitness industry denying VT is a useful tool unto itself, stating you "had" to do other forms of exercise or jump around on the machines to gain any results. And I was also tired of industry people who do not even use their own product mouthing off how great it is. ( And if they do use them have nothing to show for it after years of being involved )
 
 
Note: I have followed my exact theories to the letter. Following my "Relaxed and Static" program on High Energy Lineal platforms.
 
Di Heap/VibePlus Posted On:2012-02-08 11:47:44
 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-07 10:53:32
Some parties within the industry are still clinging to Fq x Amplitude as the be all and end all of Vibration Training.
 
Well I think one of our biggest breakdowns in understanding my work. Is they seem
to rely on machines to tell you what's what.


In my opinion machines are not smart enough to design new machines, or fully
explain how they work.


Classic example....  BMI

Relies on a tape measure and a set of scales. Simple to teach and simple to
learn. But we "know" it only gives us a rough picture.  Even though it was
once used by "professionals" . And they had plenty of "peer reviewed
studies" to back up their charts.


Now no true professional will even reference it and anyone who does is
either a weight loss marketer , or a lazy, slow to change health Pro.



Some things never change.
 
 
MJB2 Posted On:2012-02-05 17:26:58

Thanks again,

 Guess my choice will come down to affordability, back up support  and   good detailed guide on how to get the most  out the machine safely.    

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-05 17:10:20
 
The machines are only machines. They can not deceive you.
 
Only people do that. By either exaggerating a claim or omitting the obvious.
 
 
Note: CardioTech are only up on here because they are helping promote the Safety Programs in the future. Any company supporting what I see as very important benchmarks will get some support of some kind. I do of course not expect companies to be perfect or support all my aims, and I fully understand most will only promote what I ask for market share
 
But I will do whatever it takes to make this industry safe and more honest.
 
MJB2 Posted On:2012-02-05 16:34:41

Hi Lloyd,

Thanks for the link to the article. I have been reading the report available via Hypervibe and  found the referencing to  Hertz and  G  force  on the different machine helpful, but wasnt sure if   the report is a bit misleading. I noted on your website you have links to  Cardiotech , their commerical machine looks good but not sure how thier  VT12 compares.  A friend of mine has the commercial deluxe from Amazing super health , and enjoys this.  Your reinforecment on the importance of tecnique is much appreciated as this is true for any exercise or exercise machine. I am not really in a position to tray different models which makes choice difficult.

its great to know some one liek youreslf is  passionate about your business and the health  safety  and support  to  consumers 

 
Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train Posted On:2012-02-05 16:10:38
MJB 2
 
As long as the amplitude and direction of the vibration is controlled, and you are doing strict poses. There should be no real risk involved in using any plate. ( taking into account your injury )
 
What you may have read about "shearing" on joints was a warning placed years ago when Power Plate was promoting a plate with excess 3D movement ( you could actually see the plate move sideways ) It was in fact a manufacturing screw up from the Chinese factory they were trying to cover up with fancy explanations. 
 
They backed off that BS years ago and now promote "mainly lineal" is best. Luckily we won that time.
 
 
Note" The G-Force is only a part of the effect a plate has. http://www.vibration-training-advice.com/extra-force-better-training-results
 
My most powerful machine, with the highest perceived exertion rate runs at 43hz / 0.7mm . "Control" of all factors is the key to Vibration Train
 
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